True Believers

[ThinkForYourself]

Why does he need us? What does he need from us?

He has a huge need to be worshiped by lesser beings.

So huge that if a lesser being doesn't worship him, he will torture said being for all eternity.

I can't begin to understand how needy I would have to be to want to torture someone for all eternity.

 

[Golden Yak]

This link to the UB covers some of the philosophical explanation for the Supreme.

Paper 115 - The Supreme Being | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation

Oh my God, that's boring.

 

[PsychoSarah]

God is a loving Father, it's the language of your heart that he hears. We don't offend deity with the imperfect steps of our childhood. His patience and tenderness is inexplicable. God is our friend not some aloof task master. He needs us as much as we need him.

You are claiming a deep understanding of the being you have claimed is impossible to fully understand. Again, what if you are wrong, and you are offending said deity constantly? Is it really fair for an incomprehensible being to punish people for not understanding it well enough to do as it wants us to?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Oh my God, that's boring.

Yes, but it's convenient because all the answers are contained within this one book. You don't need to read anything else. In fact, you'd be well-advised to throw away all other books lest your thinking be corrupted by the false teachings they contain.

 

[Colter]

You are claiming a deep understanding of the being you have claimed is impossible to fully understand. Again, what if you are wrong, and you are offending said deity constantly? Is it really fair for an incomprehensible being to punish people for not understanding it well enough to do as it wants us to?

I'm claiming to have a relationship with a God that you can also have a relationship with like a friend. I don't have exclusive rights or understanding of that friend.

I'm not sure if you really want answers to your questions or if they are excuses not to act, excuses that keep you from leaving your comfort zone of doubt.

A loving Father is not offended by the ignorance of his erring children and he would only suffer disappointment in the deliberate, knowing acts of rebellion.

Punishment is the wrong concept.

 

[Colter]

He has a huge need to be worshiped by lesser beings.

So huge that if a lesser being doesn't worship him, he will torture said being for all eternity.

I can't begin to understand how needy I would have to be to want to torture someone for all eternity.

You recognize the inadequacy of concept and the injustice within the theological philosophy of arcane religious systems. You have values, you have the ability to perceive truth, beauty and goodness. That is the unacknowledged work of the true God within your own soul.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'm claiming to have a relationship with a God that you can also have a relationship with like a friend. I don't have exclusive rights or understanding of that friend.

I'm not sure if you really want answers to your questions or if they are excuses not to act, excuses that keep you from leaving your comfort zone of doubt.

A loving Father is not offended by the ignorance of his erring children and he would only suffer disappointment in the deliberate, knowing acts of rebellion.

Punishment is the wrong concept.

My skepticism is far from comfortable. And yes, I do want answers to my questions, if I didn't, I wouldn't ask them.

What real evidence do you have for any plausible deity that could exist being so forgiving? I can't think of any religious texts even that depict deities who wouldn't under certain circumstances hurt people.

 

[Colter]

My skepticism is far from comfortable. And yes, I do want answers to my questions, if I didn't, I wouldn't ask them.

What real evidence do you have for any plausible deity that could exist being so forgiving? I can't think of any religious texts even that depict deities who wouldn't under certain circumstances hurt people.

I would first point to the God, or at least the God concept, revealed in the life lived by Jesus, minus the religion that grew up about him.

Human things must first be known in order to be loved. Divine things must first be loved in order to be known.

This God that I speak of lives within you Sarah, that's where you should search for it, that is where you will find this God of love. God is spirit and he has sent a part of himself to live within the heart of every person of a sound mind. The Urantia revelation teaches that the Father fragment or Thought Adjuster comes to a person around the time of their first moral choice, on average around age 6.

This gift of the Father waits patiently for that momentous day when you truly desire it's guidance.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I would first point to the God, or at least the God concept, revealed in the life lived by Jesus, minus the religion that grew up about him.

Human things must first be known in order to be loved. Divine things must first be loved in order to be known.

This God that I speak of lives within you Sarah, that's where you should search for it, that is where you will find this God of love. God is spirit and he has sent a part of himself to live within the heart of every person of a sound mind. The Urantia revelation teaches that the Father fragment or Thought Adjuster comes to a person around the time of their first moral choice, on average around age 6.

This gift of the Father waits patiently for that momentous day when you truly desire it's guidance.

-_- again, you have no means by which to possibly know how much I want to believe all of this. I have been praying for belief for the past 6 years roughly, so don't insult me by suggesting I don't want belief enough.

That is a real easy way to end up with a deity concept that fits one's personal desires rather than ever hoping to come close to any deity that might actually exist. The first sign that you are fooling yourself is that this "deity" never disagrees with you or comes off as having unpleasant features from your perspective. Logically, if what you are feeling is truly something beyond yourself, it should clash with you on some level.

 

[Colter]

-_- again, you have no means by which to possibly know how much I want to believe all of this. I have been praying for belief for the past 6 years roughly, so don't insult me by suggesting I don't want belief enough.

That is a real easy way to end up with a deity concept that fits one's personal desires rather than ever hoping to come close to any deity that might actually exist. The first sign that you are fooling yourself is that this "deity" never disagrees with you or comes off as having unpleasant features from your perspective. Logically, if what you are feeling is truly something beyond yourself, it should clash with you on some level.

Where did you get the idea that my God only agrees with me! LOL! There is my will, and there is Gods will. I often find the will of God to be at odds with what I would rather be doing, but his wisdom always proves to be the better way.

 

[Tree of Life]

That sure would have helped in life!


eudaimonia,

Mark

What you're saying is that you know that there are things that you don't know. But how do you know that you don't know them?

 

[quatona]

What you're saying is that you know that there are things that you don't know. But how do you know that you don't know them?

You mean he doesn´t know it? Then that´s at least one thing he doesn´t know. QED
But of course it´s easy to know there are things you don´t know: You are asked a question and you don´t know the answer.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What you're saying is that you know that there are things that you don't know. But how do you know that you don't know them?

I have experienced not knowing something, and then learning the answer. School was a good teacher in that respect.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Tree of Life]

I have experienced not knowing something, and then learning the answer. School was a good teacher in that respect.


eudaimonia,

Mark

How do you know that you actually learned something that was true but you didn't know before? Perhaps you made it true the moment you apprehended it.

 

[bhsmte]

How do you know that you actually learned something that was true but you didn't know before? Perhaps you made it true the moment you apprehended it.

Evidence to support it as truth?

 

[Eudaimonist]

How do you know that you actually learned something that was true but you didn't know before? Perhaps you made it true the moment you apprehended it.

The magical unicorn underneath the gumdrop tree told me so.

I can imagine just about anything, but that doesn't mean that philosophical questions based on that imagination hold any weight.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

"Logic is the technique of philosophy, its method of expression. Within the domain of true science, reason is always amenable to genuine logic; within the domain of true religion, faith is always logical from the basis of an inner viewpoint, even though such faith may appear to be quite unfounded from the inlooking viewpoint of the scientific approach. From outward, looking within, the universe may appear to be material; from within, looking out, the same universe appears to be wholly spiritual. Reason grows out of material awareness, faith out of spiritual awareness, but through the mediation of a philosophy strengthened by revelation, logic may confirm both the inward and the outward view, thereby effecting the stabilization of both science and religion. Thus, through common contact with the logic of philosophy, may both science and religion become increasingly tolerant of each other, less and less skeptical." UB 1955​

 

[PsychoSarah]

Where did you get the idea that my God only agrees with me! LOL! There is my will, and there is Gods will. I often find the will of God to be at odds with what I would rather be doing, but his wisdom always proves to be the better way.

You see, this is still an indirect form of self worship. You have to understand that when I say clash, I don't mean you would rather have other options. You would have to outright disagree. But you can't disagree with yourself on that level. You have to view some aspect of said deity as being neigh unacceptable, but you have to live with it anyways. And it doesn't matter how flexible or patient as a person you are, if this deity is beyond you, there has to be some quality of it you outright dislike that you don't have yourself.

 

[Colter]

You see, this is still an indirect form of self worship. You have to understand that when I say clash, I don't mean you would rather have other options. You would have to outright disagree. But you can't disagree with yourself on that level. You have to view some aspect of said deity as being neigh unacceptable, but you have to live with it anyways. And it doesn't matter how flexible or patient as a person you are, if this deity is beyond you, there has to be some quality of it you outright dislike that you don't have yourself.

Maybe your preconceptions of these things are holding you back?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Maybe your preconceptions of these things are holding you back?

No, nothing is beyond criticism. Your rosy perception of god is just a red flag to me