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True and False Conversion (Everyone Please Read)

the truth

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Just curious what others thought. I will be posting this in other sections God bless. :)

"That is the reason we have so many ‘mushroom’ converts, because their stony ground is not plowed up; they have not got a conviction of the Law; they are stony-ground hearers."
GEORGE WHITEFIELD

Kirk's comment I thought "backsliding" was a common, normal occurrence in Christianity until I understood the reality of false conversions and their prevalence in our churches today. This lesson is a real eye-opener.

Q U E S T I O N S & O B J E C T I O N S
"I was once a born-again Christian. Now I believe it’s all rubbish!" When a person maintains that he was once a Christian, but came to his senses, he is saying that he once knew the Lord (see John 17:3). Ask him,
"Did you know the Lord?" If he answers yes, gently say, "So you admit that He is real and that you are in rebellion to His will." If he says, "I thought I did!" this gives you license to gently say, "If you don’t know so, then you probably didn’t." If he didn’t know the Lord, he was therefore never a Christian (1 John 5:11–13,20). Explain to him that the Bible speaks
of false conversion, in which a "stony ground" hearer receives the Word with joy and gladness. Then, in a time of tribulation, temptation, and per-secution, falls away. If he is open to reason, take him through the Ten Commandments, into the message of the cross, and the necessity of repentance and faith in the Savior.
Perhaps one of the most neglected concepts in the contemporary Body of Christ is that of true and false conversion.Why it is neglected is a mystery because the New Testament is filled with teachings about the
subject and gives many examples of false converts. The Scriptures speak of false prophets, false teachers, false apostles, and false brethren. A clear understanding of the subject will help ensure that we are not guilty of preaching a gospel that reaps false converts.
When Jesus gave His disciples the Parable of the Sower, it seems that they lacked understanding of its meaning: "He said to them, ‘Do you not know [understand] this parable? and how then will you know [understand] all parables?’" (Mark 4:13). In other words, the Parable of the Sower is the key to unlocking the mysteries of all the other parables. If any message comes from the parable, it is the fact that when the gospel is preached, there are true and false conversions. This parable speaks of the thorny ground, the stony ground, and the good-soil hearers—the false and the genuine converts.
Once that premise has been established, the light of perception begins to dawn on Jesus’ other parables about the kingdom of God. If one grasps the principle of the true and false being alongside each other, then the other parabolic teachings make sense: the Wheat and Tares (true and false), the Good Fish and Bad Fish (true and false), the Wise Virgins and the Foolish (true and false), and the Sheep and Goats (true and false). After telling about the Wheat and Tares, Jesus gave the Parable of the Dragnet:
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus said to them, Have you understood all these things?
They said to Him, Yes, Lord (Matthew 13:47–51).
Notice that the good fish and the bad fish were in the net together. The world is not caught in the dragnet of the kingdom of heaven; they remain in the world. The "fish" that are caught are those who respond to the gospel—the evangelistic "catch." They remain together until the Day of Judgment.
False converts lack genuine contrition for sin. They make a profession of faith but are deficient in biblical repentance—"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16). A true convert, however, has a knowledge of sin and has godly sorrow, truly repents, and produces the "things that accompany salvation" (Hebrews 6:9). This is evident by the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit of righteousness, etc. Judas was a false convert. It would seem that he was an example of the thorny ground. The Bible says of the thorny-ground hearer: "The cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful" (Mark 4:19).
Some of these professing Christians stay within the church, and they are the ones who often discredit the name of Jesus Christ. Although false converts fail to repent of their sins, they do have a measure of spirituality. Judas did. He convinced some of the disciples that he did truly care for the poor. He seemed so trustworthy that he was the one who looked after the finances.When Jesus said, "One of you will betray me," the disciples didn’t point the finger at the faithful treasurer, but instead suspected themselves, saying, "Is it I, Lord?" So it’s not surprising that few within the Body of Christ would ever suspect that we are surrounded by those who fall into the "Judas" category.
However, alarm bells should go off when the church, which ought to have massive clout in society, sadly lacks it when push comes to shove.With our 142 million professed believers, we can’t even outlaw the killing of unborn children. As William Iverson wrote in Christianity Today, "A pound of meat would surely be affected by a quarter pound of salt. If this is real Christianity, the ‘salt of the earth,’ where is the effect of which Jesus spoke?"
God knows the genuine from the false, and He will separate them on the Day of Judgment.
F E A T H E R S F O R A R R O W S
The Bible tells us in Luke 22:47 that Judas led a "multitude" to Jesus. His motive, however, wasn’t to bring them to the Savior for salvation. Modern
evangelism is also bringing "multitudes" to Jesus. Their motive may be different from Judas’s, but the end result is the same. Just as the multitudes that Judas directed to Christ fell back from the Son of God, statistics
show that up to 90 percent of those coming to Christ under the methods of modern evangelism fall away from the faith. Their latter end becomes worse than the first. They openly crucify the Son of God afresh.
In their zeal without knowledge, those who prefer the ease of modern evangelism to biblical evangelism betray the cause of the gospel with a kiss.What may look like love for the sinner’s welfare is in truth eternally
detrimental to him.
Like Peter (Luke 22:51), our zeal without knowledge is actually cutting off the ears of sinners. Those we erroneously call "backsliders" won’t listen to our reasonings. As far as they are concerned, they have tried it once, and it didn’t work. What a victory for the prince of darkness, and what an unspeakable tragedy for the church!
Taken from The School Of Biblical Evangelism
 
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Servant4Jesus

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I got baptized at a Baptist church in 2003. I thought I knew why, but I did it for their "memership"class, I mean after all I took the 3 hour (or three week 1hour per week) course on membership & next was baptisim, btudid I really know Jesus? Well anyhow After meeting the Jehovah Witnesses I thought "ok yhea how can you teach me about Jesus , I ALREADY know him..." well come to find out i didn't know as much as i thought. Funny how that lesson in post#1 brought out John 17:3 because 2 1/2 yrs later with the Witnesses we point out this verse all the time it quotes: "This means everlasting life,their taking in knowledge of you the only true God, & of the one whom you sent forth,Jesus Christ."
Well happy to say I am getting baptized during this summers or falls Assymbly, btu for Jesus , not for membership.
 
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tamtam92

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Servant4Jesus said:
I got baptized at a Baptist church in 2003. I thought I knew why, but I did it for their "memership"class, I mean after all I took the 3 hour (or three week 1hour per week) course on membership & next was baptisim, btudid I really know Jesus? Well anyhow After meeting the Jehovah Witnesses I thought "ok yhea how can you teach me about Jesus , I ALREADY know him..." well come to find out i didn't know as much as i thought. Funny how that lesson in post#1 brought out John 17:3 because 2 1/2 yrs later with the Witnesses we point out this verse all the time it quotes: "This means everlasting life,their taking in knowledge of you the only true God, & of the one whom you sent forth,Jesus Christ."
Well happy to say I am getting baptized during this summers or falls Assymbly, btu for Jesus , not for membership.

This is to what a false conversion and a bad knowledge of Jesus can lead...:(
 
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Sketcher

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False converts lack genuine contrition for sin. They make a profession of faith but are deficient in biblical repentance—"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).
Yes, and what's interesting is that Paul was referring to legalists:

"For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. Even one of their own prophets has said, 'Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.' This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good." - Titus 1:10-16

Put that together with what C.S. Lewis said:

"Certainly I have met with little of the fabled odium theologicum from convinced members of communions different from my own. Hosility has come more from the borderline people whether within the Church of England or without it: men not exactly obedient to any communion. This I find curiously consoling. It is at her centre, where her truest children dwell, that each communion is really closest to every other in spirit, if not in doctrine. And this suggests that at the centre of each there is something, or a Someone, who against all divergences of belief, all differences of temperment, all memories of mutual persecution, speaks with the same voice." - Preface to Mere Christianity

The Bible says of the thorny-ground hearer: "The cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful" (Mark 4:19).
Something we all need to be very watchful for, in our prosperous society.

However, alarm bells should go off when the church, which ought to have massive clout in society, sadly lacks it when push comes to shove.With our 142 million professed believers, we can’t even outlaw the killing of unborn children. As William Iverson wrote in Christianity Today, "A pound of meat would surely be affected by a quarter pound of salt. If this is real Christianity, the ‘salt of the earth,’ where is the effect of which Jesus spoke?"
God knows the genuine from the false, and He will separate them on the Day of Judgment.
A very sad and pathetic truth. :(

The Bible tells us in Luke 22:47 that Judas led a "multitude" to Jesus. His motive, however, wasn’t to bring them to the Savior for salvation. Modern
evangelism is also bringing "multitudes" to Jesus. Their motive may be different from Judas’s, but the end result is the same.
This is a bad comparison if I ever saw one. He went too far with the Judas bit.

In their zeal without knowledge, those who prefer the ease of modern evangelism to biblical evangelism betray the cause of the gospel with a kiss.
Of course, this begs the question, "What is Biblical evangelism?" and "What is unbiblical about 'modern' evangelism? Which 'evangelistic' efforts is this man targeting?"
 
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Sketcher

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Servant4Jesus said:
I got baptized at a Baptist church in 2003. I thought I knew why, but I did it for their "memership"class, I mean after all I took the 3 hour (or three week 1hour per week) course on membership & next was baptisim, btudid I really know Jesus? Well anyhow After meeting the Jehovah Witnesses I thought "ok yhea how can you teach me about Jesus , I ALREADY know him..." well come to find out i didn't know as much as i thought. Funny how that lesson in post#1 brought out John 17:3 because 2 1/2 yrs later with the Witnesses we point out this verse all the time it quotes: "This means everlasting life,their taking in knowledge of you the only true God, & of the one whom you sent forth,Jesus Christ."
Well happy to say I am getting baptized during this summers or falls Assymbly, btu for Jesus , not for membership.
So are you a Jehovah's Witness or not?
 
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ascribe2thelord

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Servant4Jesus said:
I got baptized at a Baptist church in 2003. I thought I knew why, but I did it for their "memership"class, I mean after all I took the 3 hour (or three week 1hour per week) course on membership & next was baptism, but did I really know Jesus? Well anyhow After meeting the Jehovah Witnesses I thought "ok yhea how can you teach me about Jesus , I ALREADY know him..." well come to find out i didn't know as much as i thought. Funny how that lesson in post#1 brought out John 17:3 because 2 1/2 yrs later with the Witnesses we point out this verse all the time it quotes: "This means everlasting life,their taking in knowledge of you the only true God, & of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."
Well happy to say I am getting baptized during this summers or falls Assymbly, but for Jesus , not for membership.

This is the fault of some Baptist churches. We seek conversion so badly, and some of us who believe in free will are up to doing everything possible in their power to "convert" the unbelieving. They don't understand that it is God's grace that leads one to repent of sin and accept Jesus as Lord and Master. (And then, and only then is he "Savior.")

Now onto Jehovah's Witness core beliefs - you believe in a works based salvation, is that not correct? You do not accept that Jesus is the Son of God, fully God and fully man, not half and half but both manifested in the same person? He spoke as an eternal being - if you read what he said, "before Abraham was, I AM," John 8. Jesus is God's salvation, given to us - he took our sins and atoned for them, so that we do not have to on our own. (Because we can't! Penance for the unsaved is hell itself, and hell lasts forever.)

If you are truly seeking to know Jesus, then get out of the "watchtower" society. You will be "disfellowshipped" and your family and friends who are in the church will distance themselves from you because of that, but you will be back on the right path.

That is what you need. I believe you where you say that you are searching for Jesus. But look in the real Bible, and the real church ... not a church that's had so many failed prophecies throughout the years that they've become a laughingstock. (Look them up online - failed prophecies - to Christ's return, armageddon and such. All spoken in vain, because only God knows the timing of such events.)
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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Mary poured the perfume on Jesus and He said for this she will be remembered. The disciples wanted to give to the poor.
Mary sat at Jesus` feet and He said she was doing the right thing. Martha was busy serving.
In each case Mary acted in love to Jesus.
The disciples and Martha were working on "the cause"

True conversion is a love for the Lord.
If just working for the cause then it`s easy to turn away , because a person doesn`t have a personal relationship with Jesus.

The Holy Spirit needs to work from within.
 
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the truth said:
Just curious what others thought. I will be posting this in other sections God bless. :)

"That is the reason we have so many ‘mushroom’ converts, because their stony ground is not plowed up; they have not got a conviction of the Law; they are stony-ground hearers."
GEORGE WHITEFIELD

Kirk's comment I thought "backsliding" was a common, normal occurrence in Christianity until I understood the reality of false conversions and their prevalence in our churches today. This lesson is a real eye-opener.

Q U E S T I O N S & O B J E C T I O N S
"I was once a born-again Christian. Now I believe it’s all rubbish!" When a person maintains that he was once a Christian, but came to his senses, he is saying that he once knew the Lord (see John 17:3). Ask him,
"Did you know the Lord?" If he answers yes, gently say, "So you admit that He is real and that you are in rebellion to His will." If he says, "I thought I did!" this gives you license to gently say, "If you don’t know so, then you probably didn’t." If he didn’t know the Lord, he was therefore never a Christian (1 John 5:11–13,20). Explain to him that the Bible speaks
of false conversion, in which a "stony ground" hearer receives the Word with joy and gladness. Then, in a time of tribulation, temptation, and per-secution, falls away. If he is open to reason, take him through the Ten Commandments, into the message of the cross, and the necessity of repentance and faith in the Savior.
Perhaps one of the most neglected concepts in the contemporary Body of Christ is that of true and false conversion.Why it is neglected is a mystery because the New Testament is filled with teachings about the
subject and gives many examples of false converts. The Scriptures speak of false prophets, false teachers, false apostles, and false brethren. A clear understanding of the subject will help ensure that we are not guilty of preaching a gospel that reaps false converts.
When Jesus gave His disciples the Parable of the Sower, it seems that they lacked understanding of its meaning: "He said to them, ‘Do you not know [understand] this parable? and how then will you know [understand] all parables?’" (Mark 4:13). In other words, the Parable of the Sower is the key to unlocking the mysteries of all the other parables. If any message comes from the parable, it is the fact that when the gospel is preached, there are true and false conversions. This parable speaks of the thorny ground, the stony ground, and the good-soil hearers—the false and the genuine converts.
Once that premise has been established, the light of perception begins to dawn on Jesus’ other parables about the kingdom of God. If one grasps the principle of the true and false being alongside each other, then the other parabolic teachings make sense: the Wheat and Tares (true and false), the Good Fish and Bad Fish (true and false), the Wise Virgins and the Foolish (true and false), and the Sheep and Goats (true and false). After telling about the Wheat and Tares, Jesus gave the Parable of the Dragnet:
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like to a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Jesus said to them, Have you understood all these things?
They said to Him, Yes, Lord (Matthew 13:47–51).
Notice that the good fish and the bad fish were in the net together. The world is not caught in the dragnet of the kingdom of heaven; they remain in the world. The "fish" that are caught are those who respond to the gospel—the evangelistic "catch." They remain together until the Day of Judgment.
False converts lack genuine contrition for sin. They make a profession of faith but are deficient in biblical repentance—"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16). A true convert, however, has a knowledge of sin and has godly sorrow, truly repents, and produces the "things that accompany salvation" (Hebrews 6:9). This is evident by the fruit of the Spirit, the fruit of righteousness, etc. Judas was a false convert. It would seem that he was an example of the thorny ground. The Bible says of the thorny-ground hearer: "The cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful" (Mark 4:19).
Some of these professing Christians stay within the church, and they are the ones who often discredit the name of Jesus Christ. Although false converts fail to repent of their sins, they do have a measure of spirituality. Judas did. He convinced some of the disciples that he did truly care for the poor. He seemed so trustworthy that he was the one who looked after the finances.When Jesus said, "One of you will betray me," the disciples didn’t point the finger at the faithful treasurer, but instead suspected themselves, saying, "Is it I, Lord?" So it’s not surprising that few within the Body of Christ would ever suspect that we are surrounded by those who fall into the "Judas" category.
However, alarm bells should go off when the church, which ought to have massive clout in society, sadly lacks it when push comes to shove.With our 142 million professed believers, we can’t even outlaw the killing of unborn children. As William Iverson wrote in Christianity Today, "A pound of meat would surely be affected by a quarter pound of salt. If this is real Christianity, the ‘salt of the earth,’ where is the effect of which Jesus spoke?"
God knows the genuine from the false, and He will separate them on the Day of Judgment.
F E A T H E R S F O R A R R O W S
The Bible tells us in Luke 22:47 that Judas led a "multitude" to Jesus. His motive, however, wasn’t to bring them to the Savior for salvation. Modern
evangelism is also bringing "multitudes" to Jesus. Their motive may be different from Judas’s, but the end result is the same. Just as the multitudes that Judas directed to Christ fell back from the Son of God, statistics
show that up to 90 percent of those coming to Christ under the methods of modern evangelism fall away from the faith. Their latter end becomes worse than the first. They openly crucify the Son of God afresh.
In their zeal without knowledge, those who prefer the ease of modern evangelism to biblical evangelism betray the cause of the gospel with a kiss.What may look like love for the sinner’s welfare is in truth eternally
detrimental to him.
Like Peter (Luke 22:51), our zeal without knowledge is actually cutting off the ears of sinners. Those we erroneously call "backsliders" won’t listen to our reasonings. As far as they are concerned, they have tried it once, and it didn’t work. What a victory for the prince of darkness, and what an unspeakable tragedy for the church!
Taken from The School Of Biblical Evangelism
Very few people, both Christians and Non-Christian want to think about God's Judgment Day.

Only problem with that is....come Judgment Day...it is too late to change your status with God !
 
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