Trouble with Hannity...again.

[helenofbritain]

the question now is do I really want to know the answer.....

Do yourself a favour and check out John Safran vs God. It originally aired on SBS a few years ago - you can get it on DVD. It's a bit irreverant (but to everybody!) and he does examine most religions you can think of, inculding the Mormons and thier "magic undies"

Did you see him on Race Around the World? Awesome.

If you can't wait for the DVD, I'd check out wikipedia. Odds on it's got something about Mormon underwear. (Basically it's very modest full length underwear with some embroidery on it [can't remember what it depicts] and they are supposed to wear it all the time).

 

[Miss Shelby]

I have to admit this whole thing confuses me. I was always in belief that a Christian was someone that believed in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and everything else was just denominational differences. How far off is that?

And is this why the LDS do not have a forum here in the Congregation section? Some of their teachings are a little wacky, but I'm sure plenty of people think some of the Catholic teachings are a little odd too. If they believe in Jesus Christ as man's savior, then in my opinion they are Christians. Like another poster, the ones I have known have been incrediable examples of humanity.

And I will admit I have been doing some reading on their Church if I still have trouble finding my "home" denomination. Easter Sunday will be my first mass in many years and I am hoping that I will feel something that will tell me Catholic is my "home". The same force that told me that Jesus and God want me on the Christian path, I would hope!

- Mare

if someone else has addressed this I apologize. Water baptism, done in the proper form, in the name of the trinity is necessary for salvation. While it alone does not assure someone of salvation, it initiates us into the family, assures us of our adoption into the family of Christ. There is more to the Christian life of course, but this sacrament must not be underestimated. It is what unites us with other Christians into one Body. Believing Christ is savior and living for Him is important, but only a small part as well.

As for your personal situation, God's grace knows no bounds, He has reached out to you and you are responding to the call. I wouldn't doubt that it was the grace afforded you at your baptism which is touching you now, though, and beckoning you to return.

As to why the LDS don't have a forum in the Congregation section, that's a board rule. There has to be an affirmation of the Nicene Creed. I don't put a lot of stock in that though, it's a messageboard run by people who can't even agree on what the Nicene Creed means. I put stock in what the Catholic Church teaches.

Michelle

 

[geocajun]

He is definitely wrong in what he said, but I would ask that you consider what if Hannity had claimed those who don't believe in baptism at all were Christian, would that get this same attention? certainly that would be wrong too, and for the same reason. I just wonder if this is "hannity phobia" that is driving this.

 

[AMDG]

He is definitely wrong in what he said, but I would ask that you consider what if Hannity had claimed those who don't believe in baptism at all were Christian, would that get this same attention? certainly that would be wrong too, and for the same reason. I just wonder if this is "hannity phobia" that is driving this.

Since I freely admit that I dislike the way Mr. Hannity "interviews" those on his show, I must consider what you say very carefully. And after this careful consideration, I must answer "no". The stakes are too high. Impressionable people get the wrong idea and then act on that wrong idea.

 

[Protinus]

Mormons are not Christians. [/quote]

who are you to say who is Christian or not? Who is your confessor? That our Christian brethren are not in line with our teaching is enough for you to castigate them??


ppfffttt....

who cares what Hannity says...your post speaks to eternity.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Who is your confessor?

Fr. Ken Fryar Fryar FSSP, a holy priest, do you know him?

 

[AMDG]

Mormons are not Christians.

who are you to say who is Christian or not? Who is your confessor? That our Christian brethren are not in line with our teaching is enough for you to castigate them??


[/quote]

May I respectfully suggest you read up before you say that speaking the truth is "castigating".

 

[Protinus]

who are you to say who is Christian or not? Who is your confessor? That our Christian brethren are not in line with our teaching is enough for you to castigate them??

May I respectfully suggest you read up before you say that speaking the truth is "castigating".[/quote]

Oh!! you forgot to include the Webter's Dictionary definition of what a Christian is!!

 

[Miss Shelby]

I just wonder if this is "hannity phobia" that is driving this.

Probably.

But as you can see by reading this thread, some people seem to not put any stock at all in the Sacrament of Baptism. I don't like to see one excluded in favor of another. (ie. baptism excluded in favor of behavior and/or vice versa)

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

May I respectfully suggest you read up before you say that speaking the truth is "castigating".

Oh!! you forgot to include the Webter's Dictionary definition of what a Christian is!![/quote]

Wow! I didn't know that Webster's Dictionary was the authority that Catholics were supposed to consult. I guess you learn something new everyday.

 

[geocajun]

May I respectfully suggest you read up before you say that speaking the truth is "castigating".

Oh!! you forgot to include the Webter's Dictionary definition of what a Christian is!!

Protinus, it is an inescapable fact, that per catholic teaching one becomes Christian through baptism, and if they aren't baptized then they aren't Christian.

 

[Protinus]

Protinus, it is an inescapable fact, that per catholic teaching one becomes Christian through baptism, and if they aren't baptized then they aren't Christian.

mallarchy...and I shrink from any conversation that announces anyone or any group "not Christian" or "un Christian" as if to imply the right Kind of Christian is announcing such.

And you don't have to get all pedantic/condescending- I am fully aware of Mormons and the Catholic Church having problems with their baptism (yes, they do have the rite of baptism by immersion) as non-Trinitarian. I know that Jesus in their eyes is the son of a father and mother from another planet...and so on...and whatever.

But smack me when I call someone un-Christian or not Christian as if I'm the right Christian with Grace before God to say it!!

But you go ahead....

 

[geocajun]

mallarchy...and I shrink from any conversation that announces anyone or any group "not Christian" or "un Christian" as if to imply the right Kind of Christian is announcing such.

And you don't have to get all pedantic/condescending- I am fully aware of Mormons and the Catholic Church having problems with their baptism (yes, they do have the rite of baptism by immersion) as non-Trinitarian. I know that Jesus in their eyes is the son of a father and mother from another planet...and so on...and whatever.

But smack me when I call someone un-Christian or not Christian as if I'm the right Christian with Grace before God to say it!!

But you go ahead....

Sorry you found my post condescending, that wasn't my intention. I was only being direct, that one cannot claim to know and follow catholic teaching and dismiss the fact that baptism is a requirement to become a Christian.

 

[Protinus]

Sorry you found my post condescending, that wasn't my intention. I was only being direct, that one cannot claim to know and follow catholic teaching and dismiss the fact that baptism is a requirement to become a Christian.

you really have no idea what I'm trying to convey, do you?

 

[geocajun]

you really have no idea what I'm trying to convey, do you?

yep, I know exactly what you're trying to convey - which is that we have no right to say who is and isn't Christian, and that it seems sanctimonious of us to do so. That is not consistent with the teaching or practice of the church on the matter however, so I think in this case it is you who should examine yourself.

 

[Protinus]

yep, I know exactly what you're trying to convey - which is that we have no right to say who is and isn't Christian, and that it seems sanctimonious of us to do so. That is not consistent with the teaching or practice of the church on the matter however, so I think in this case it is you who should examine yourself.

thank you for your point about my self examination...a point you seem to make for others ad nauseum. It is true that I need to be self examining as I seek the righteousness of St. Joseph and our Lord...Not self-righteousness. Because if someone knows me and sees Christ even as a mere flicker- through my actions, through my works, I will have known this righteousness of my Lord and I will have succeeded. And it won't be from self righteous comments about others not being Christian or failing to meet the definition of a Christian.

 

[AMDG]

And it won't be from self righteous comments about others not being Christian or failing to meet the definition of a Christian.

But being truthful is hardly being "self-righteouness". We are just holding fast to the truth of the founder of our Church.

 

[Protinus]

But being truthful is hardly being "self-righteouness". We are just holding fast to the truth of the founder of our Church.

humilty in the name of evangelization and fellowship is what speaks to me from the founder. Not my definition of Christianity announced in the name of my creed or even foisted in the name of my Church in hurtful and divisive tones, damaging in all their intentions.

We minister to all people, Christian or not...and dare not speak down on them as if they are not capable of knowing our Lord.


I wonder where I am sometimes.

 

[AMDG]

We minister to all people, Christian or not...and dare not speak down on them as if they are not capable of knowing our Lord.

It is not being hurtful to just be honest. We aren't saying that they are not capable of knowing our Lord. We are just making a statement of fact. No one would consider it to be hurtful if we were to (correctly) state that a Jewish person, although having the best of ethics and surely known by Our Lord, is not "Christian". Nor would it be considered hurtful or divisive to acknowledge that a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu was not a "Christian". They simply have different beliefs. They do not share the belief that Jesus is God--the second person of the Trinity.

As to being a "Christian" simply being some term put on a person by a Church creed. You seem to be forgetting that Jesus is the founder of the Catholic Church, and Jesus said to His Apostles (the leaders of His Church) "He who hears you, hears Me". So if the Church is indicating that Baptism is necessary to be legitimately called a "Christian" AND has said that Mormon "baptism" is not a Christian Baptism because it denies what the Church teaches--the Trinity, Mormons are not Christian. It's as simple as that. It's fact, no feelings are brought into the equation. That doesn't say anything about whether they know the Lord or the Lord knows them. It just "is".

 

[geocajun]

humilty in the name of evangelization and fellowship is what speaks to me from the founder. Not my definition of Christianity announced in the name of my creed or even foisted in the name of my Church in hurtful and divisive tones, damaging in all their intentions.

We minister to all people, Christian or not...and dare not speak down on them as if they are not capable of knowing our Lord.


I wonder where I am sometimes.

You seem to be under the impression that we do a greater service to folks by ignoring the fact that they aren't baptized than we do by pointing it out, and encouraging it.