Trouble with Hannity...again.

[ProCommunioneFacior]

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/03/sean-hannity-on-mormons-and-christians/

Sean Hannity on Mormons and Christians
CATEGORY: SESSIUNCULUM — Fr. John Zuhlsdorf @ 10:52 am

Does anyone out there have a link to a transcript of Sean Hannity of Fox News saying that Mormons are Christians?
Recently Mr. Hannity had an on-air run in with Fr. Euteneuer of HLI in which Mr. Hannity was clearly in the wrong about how Catholics are to embrace the Church’s teachings concerning faith and moral. That exchanged was muddied by a very ill-considered and rather weak-kneed intervention by another priest, alas.
Now, or so it seems, Mr. Hannity made an error about Mormons. Mr. Hannity allegedly (according to the Cafeteria is Closed) said about the Mormon religion: "It’s a Christian church, too." If this is true, the error must be corrected. If Mr. Hannity did not in fact make that error, the error still needs to be corrected, for it is wide-spread.

Mormons are not Christians.
Mormons do not have valid Christian baptism.

Mormons use the same terms Christians use but they mean very different things by those terms. For example, Mormons may use the term "divine" or "Trinity", but they do not thereby mean divinity of God or Trinity of three divine Persons in one God as Christians do.

Belief in the Trinity is a sine qua non for being a Christian.

You might want to read the Holy See’s Response to a ‘Dubium’ on the validity of baptism conferred by "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" called "Mormons".

Question: Whether the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.


Response: Negative.

The Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, in the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved the present Response, decided in the Sessione Ordinaria of this Congregation, and ordered it published.

From the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 5 June 2001.

+ Joseph Cardinal RATZINGER
Prefect

+ Tarcisio BERTONE, S.D.B.
Archbishop emeritus of Vercelli
Secretary​

Mormons do not believe in a Christian Trinity. They do not believe in realities like Original Sin. They do not believe Christ instituted the sacraments. Etc. This is a good article by [SIZE=+0]Fr Luis Ladaria, S.J., published in L’Osservatore Romano in [/SIZE]2001.

None of this is intended to convey disrespect for any particular Mormons. Whatever you think about Mormon doctrine, individual Mormons deserve respect.

However, it is not respectful either to Mormons or to Christians to make fundamental errors, publicly, about their respective tenets.

 

[NDIrish]

This shouldn't really surprise anyone, should it?

 

[Monica02]

Hannity is not an expert, so I wish he would get some experts on his show and let them do the talking.

 

[MikeK]

The term "Christian" is an interesting one. Mormons will frequrntly say they are, but many Catholics disagree. Catholics say they are, but many protestants disagree.

From the LDS official page:

Question:
Is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian church?

Answer:
M. Russell Ballard, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said:
"There are many who say that Latter-day Saints believe in a 'different Jesus' than do other Christians and that we are therefore not 'Christian.' . . . We believe in the Jesus of the New Testament, and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him. We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know. . . .

"What we want most of all is for Christian and non-Christian alike to understand that we love the Lord Jesus Christ. We revere His name. We count it a great honor and privilege to take upon ourselves the name of Christ as Christians and as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

I don't know if Mormons should be called "Christians" or not, but I also don't really care. They call themselves Christian, so I lean towards giving them the benefit of the doubt. I do know that the Mormons who I've been lucky enough to know personally have been the greatest living examples of their faith and the message of Jesus that I've met. I'm sure they aren't all great people, but the ones that I know have excelent moral values, are the furthest thing from judgemental, and are eager not only to share their faith, but also to give greatly of themselves and their wealth to help their communitees. They few Mormon families I know are truly selfless people with the strongest commitment to family and communitee service that I've met. I wish our Church would borrow a page from them....just not the page that says we can become God, or that the Indians are a lost tribe, or the stuff about the underwear that God wants us to wear.

 

[MikeK]

Hannity is not an expert, so I wish he would get some experts on his show and let them do the talking.

I doubt that a Catholic expert and a Mormon expert sitting across from eachother and saying "am so!" "are not!" "am so!" "are not!" would make for good television. People tune in to see Hannity make indefensible statements and then mute the guests who are naive enough to think that they will get a fair shake at debate with Sean. You gotta keep the customer satisfied, even when the customer is the lowest common denomonator.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Mormon's annoy me.

Then again, what doesn't ?

Mormon's claim Christ as their savior so what am I going to do fight with them ?

As for SlantHead, as far as I'm concerned you can slap him around for any reason you want.

I find him annoying.

 

[AMDG]

I think the term "Christian" means different things to different people (Are people who just believe that there was a man named Jesus who lived thousands of years ago "Christian"? Or is it someone who believes that this Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity? Or is it someone who believes all the tenets of the Nicene Creed--believes in all? Or is it just a person who has good morals?--I've met atheists with good morals who were beyond kind and caring, were selfless and actually had fantastic family values.) The fact remains that LDS (Mormon) Baptism is not a Christian Baptism, and if the Mormon converts to the Catholic Church, he will have to be Baptized "Christian", unlike the Baptisms of our other separated brethren. IMO, it is not an insult to speak the truth. And not too long ago the LDS claimed that they weren't Christian either. They were even proud of that! Can't help but wonder why the change.

If Mr. Hannity publically claims that Mormons are Christians (and is so espousing things that the Church does not teach), he is doing harm to the Catholic Church and is doing everyone a disservice.

 

[Adammi]

My trouble with Hannity has always been for other reasons, but...

 

[Ann M]

or the stuff about the underwear that God wants us to wear.

the question now is do I really want to know the answer.....

 

[Kasia]

Personally, I just don't watch shows like that anymore. I use to be a pretty big fan of O'Reilly, but I don't really like the direction that those shows are going. Instead of using intelligence to get to the bottom of the issues, they all use any means necessary to trash the other political party. And, trust me, FoxNews is definately not the only one that does so. I still prefer FoxNews to CNN and MSNBC. The only things I watch on tv anymore are shows on the History Channel, old movies on AMC and TCM, and HGTV.

But yes, I agree that if they made a mistake about it, especially on national television, they need to fix it. It's amazing how many people will watch these shows and eat up everything that is said whether it's right or wrong.

 

[Miss Shelby]

the way I understand it, since their doctrines of faith deny the Trinity, they're (the teachings) are considered non Christian by orthodox standards. Their baptisms, for instance, are not thought to be valid and if a Mormon converted to Catholicism, they'd need to be rebaptized. But it's because of the denial of the trinity. I suppose they (many)-- behave like Christians, but the question is : What makes a person a Christian?

Michelle

 

[a_ntv]

CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
​

Question: Wheter the baptism conferred by the community «The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints», called «Mormons» in the vernacular, is valid.
Response: Negative.

(see http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...cfaith_doc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni_en.html)

 

[GottaBeMare]

I have to admit this whole thing confuses me. I was always in belief that a Christian was someone that believed in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and everything else was just denominational differences. How far off is that?

And is this why the LDS do not have a forum here in the Congregation section? Some of their teachings are a little wacky, but I'm sure plenty of people think some of the Catholic teachings are a little odd too. If they believe in Jesus Christ as man's savior, then in my opinion they are Christians. Like another poster, the ones I have known have been incrediable examples of humanity.

And I will admit I have been doing some reading on their Church if I still have trouble finding my "home" denomination. Easter Sunday will be my first mass in many years and I am hoping that I will feel something that will tell me Catholic is my "home". The same force that told me that Jesus and God want me on the Christian path, I would hope!

- Mare

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Personally, I just don't watch shows like that anymore. I use to be a pretty big fan of O'Reilly, but I don't really like the direction that those shows are going. Instead of using intelligence to get to the bottom of the issues, they all use any means necessary to trash the other political party. And, trust me, FoxNews is definately not the only one that does so. I still prefer FoxNews to CNN and MSNBC. The only things I watch on tv anymore are shows on the History Channel, old movies on AMC and TCM, and HGTV.

But yes, I agree that if they made a mistake about it, especially on national television, they need to fix it. It's amazing how many people will watch these shows and eat up everything that is said whether it's right or wrong.

That's pretty much what I watch, but I watch EWTN instead of HGTV, and I'll watch Sci-fi & historical shows on other channels.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I have to admit this whole thing confuses me. I was always in belief that a Christian was someone that believed in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and everything else was just denominational differences. How far off is that?

And is this why the LDS do not have a forum here in the Congregation section? Some of their teachings are a little wacky, but I'm sure plenty of people think some of the Catholic teachings are a little odd too. If they believe in Jesus Christ as man's savior, then in my opinion they are Christians. Like another poster, the ones I have known have been incrediable examples of humanity.

And I will admit I have been doing some reading on their Church if I still have trouble finding my "home" denomination. Easter Sunday will be my first mass in many years and I am hoping that I will feel something that will tell me Catholic is my "home". The same force that told me that Jesus and God want me on the Christian path, I would hope!

- Mare

I'm sure you will. God told me it was home, and I was a cradle catholic looking into protestantism, before God turned me around and pushed me (lovingly of course) back to his Holy Catholic Church. Just pray for the Lord God to guide to his Church, and He'll help you. Hey, Look he did for me! And if he can change a rock-headed person like me, who's stubborn, (more in some areas than others) than I'm sure He'll help you out. Not that I'm saying anything bad at all, I'm just saying, that if he should somebody like me the way, in spite of my stubborness, He'll show you the way, definitely, and plus your seeking Christ in his Catholic Church. I had be made to look in the right direction (aka. a good kick in the behind so to speak). So good luck, and I'll pray for you!
sincerely,
Matthew

 

[AMDG]

I was always in belief that a Christian was someone that believed in Jesus Christ as their personal savior and everything else was just denominational differences. How far off is that?

Is it really just enough to think that a man named Jesus is your personal savior? (There are many people in Mexico named "Jesus".) Could it be that a "carved-in-granite-not-to-be-questioned" tenet of Christianity be the Trinity? Do the LDS believe in this? Is their Jesus the second person of the Trinity or is he an exalted man whose father lives on a planet near the star Kolob and he also has a father and so on and so on ad infinity? Not withstanding the very good press LDS are afforded lately, does what the LDS believe even remotely sound like anything any Christians believe?

Easter Vigil Mass--Holy Saturday--is glorious and I'm sure you will find it edifying, but keep in mind that our Faith isn't just based on a "feeling".

 

[palewildwoodflowr]

I hate to throw some disrespect down here, but it seriously IRKS me when I hear Mormons claim to be Christian. They are a step closer to Scientology than Christianity in my mind, *Shuzbutt*. Or just a rip off of Masonic rites combined with Joseph Smith's delusions of grandeur.

Has anyone read Mormon America: The Power and the Promise?? I highly recommend it if anyone is interested in reading a solid book on the subject.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I hate to throw some disrespect down here, but it seriously IRKS me when I hear Mormons claim to be Christian. They are a step closer to Scientology than Christianity in my mind, *Shuzbutt*. Or just a rip off of Masonic rites combined with Joseph Smith's delusions of grandeur.

Has anyone read Mormon America: The Power and the Promise?? I highly recommend it if anyone is interested in reading a solid book on the subject.

No one can ever accuse me of being an apologist for the LDS church but....

......scientology ?


Have you ever actually looked at the tenets of scientology ? This outfilt exists to exploit people.

 

[palewildwoodflowr]

No one can ever accuse me of being an apologist for the LDS church but....

......scientology ?


Have you ever actually looked at the tenets of scientology ? This outfilt exists to exploit people.

Well Maybe the Mormon's don't believe in Xenu and Thetans

but I ment to draw attention to the similarities in being rather cultish devotion, almost exclusively founded and centered in the US, recruiting qoutas, and demands access to bank accounts of its memebers.

I think some of the conservative forms of Mormonism seeks to exploit as well.

 

[Voegelin]

For all his experience in broadcasting, Hannity isn't very quick on his feet. The proper thing to do in the public arena is side-step or not give an opening for issues such as this. Mormans consider themselves Christians and that isn't going to change. There are places to debate if this or that group is truly Christian but the mass media isn't one of them. Hannity managed not only to rise of ire of his fellow Catholics but I suspect Mormans aren't pleased either. Imagine a Protestant saying "Catholics are Christians too!". I think the reaction would be "Yeah...we're Chrisitians. That is what we call ourselves. Christian. I thought everyone knew that. Why are you pointing it out?"