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Trouble believing in Scripture

Frances6098

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Hi,

I am, somewhat tentatively, trying to embrace the Christian faith. There's lots of parts of it that speak to me, and other parts that I find very difficult to believe in. I think at the moment, I'm struggling with the idea of scripture as guided by God - you know, the "God-breathed" thing.

I can agree that the Bible is beautiful and that it speaks to me as the word of God - oddly enough, that almost seems obvious. In my experience of reading it, in spirit and in the words itself, it is clearly the Word of God in some intangible way. But... it contradicts itself time and time again, and just as much as I can hear the voice of God, I can hear the voice of the writer. I simply cannot believe that the Bible is the exact word of God, or that it's inerrant, and I find it difficult and upsetting when people make (often convoluted) arguments about Scripture. It feels to me that its just people inspired by God and in communion with him, writing in the same way many pastors write sermons.

Many people on this forum seem to take Scripture as wholly true and directly the Word of God. Why? How?

(And I suspect this is probably in the wrong forum thread, so my apologies to the Mods!)
 

Pilgrim

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Welcome. I'm new here too only recently joined. God bless you for visiting. My prayers are with you that you will find what you seek in the Good News of Jesus Christ.

It's about a personal relationship with Jesus. When a person confesses their sins to God and repents, they are doing what God commanded his children to do. When a person asks forgiveness from God he forgives because Jesus took all the sin away on the cross for us. When a person accepts Christ into their heart they are sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in their heart. Jesus proclaimed in no uncertain terms that a man must be “born again” in order to enter His Father’s kingdom.

The Bible tells us:

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 10:9 - Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Titus 3:5 - He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
 
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Jane_Doe

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You've asked some great questions here! I'll try to address them in some disjointed paragraphs--

Scripture is the word of God, but it's not a rock that fell straight out of the sky and hit some priest in the head. Rather, it's a book that has an incredible history. God inspired His prophets to write the words of scripture and they teach His Truth. But Paul still sounds like Paul, and John like John etc. Much like if I would to tell you my testimony, it would sound like Jane speaking, cause I'm the one giving my testimony. Hearing the voices of the men who gave their testimony in scripture and wrote God's Truth is not a bad thing- rather it's something to be celebrated!

You said " I find it difficult and upsetting when people make (often convoluted) arguments about Scripture". As a lifelong Christian, I agree with you 100%. Just let scripture and the Spirit (the voice that's testifying of the word of God to you right now) speak plainly. While some thing definitely take study to understand, don't look to the mental gymnastics to define truth. Rather, Truth comes from God and is testified by the Spirit as you are feeling now.

The difference between pastors writing sermons vs prophets of scripture: A prophet speaks for the Lord to the world. He was specifically chosen to do so and ordained by Him and reports directly to Him. He receives Truth from Him including scripture. A pastor leads his congregation, but his words are derived from studying scripture, not from having them handed directly from the Lord (of course the Spirit is hopefully guiding the pastor too).
 
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Adstar

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Hi,

I am, somewhat tentatively, trying to embrace the Christian faith. There's lots of parts of it that speak to me, and other parts that I find very difficult to believe in. I think at the moment, I'm struggling with the idea of scripture as guided by God - you know, the "God-breathed" thing.

I can agree that the Bible is beautiful and that it speaks to me as the word of God - oddly enough, that almost seems obvious. In my experience of reading it, in spirit and in the words itself, it is clearly the Word of God in some intangible way. But... it contradicts itself time and time again, and just as much as I can hear the voice of God, I can hear the voice of the writer. I simply cannot believe that the Bible is the exact word of God, or that it's inerrant, and I find it difficult and upsetting when people make (often convoluted) arguments about Scripture. It feels to me that its just people inspired by God and in communion with him, writing in the same way many pastors write sermons.

Many people on this forum seem to take Scripture as wholly true and directly the Word of God. Why? How?

(And I suspect this is probably in the wrong forum thread, so my apologies to the Mods!)

All Christians who desire to have a loving relationship with God need to have an element of Faith / Trust in God because we as limited Human beings cannot know God fully and cannot understand why He has done what He has dome fully.. So each and every Christian is going to come to portions of Gods Message and have difficulty understanding it.. That's where Trust in God is needed.. If a person has been given great wisdom from God they can discern much more about the Word of God then others.. But no man knows all things and so even the one who has great knowledge will come to points in scripture where they will have to simply Trust God on the issue and move on..

I would like to ask for One example of a contradiction of scripture that you believe cannot be reconciled and proves to you that the Word of God is faulty.. Maybe God has given someone or shall give someone the wisdom to answer your example.. I look forward to your example..
 
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CrystalDragon

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Hi,

I am, somewhat tentatively, trying to embrace the Christian faith. There's lots of parts of it that speak to me, and other parts that I find very difficult to believe in. I think at the moment, I'm struggling with the idea of scripture as guided by God - you know, the "God-breathed" thing.

I can agree that the Bible is beautiful and that it speaks to me as the word of God - oddly enough, that almost seems obvious. In my experience of reading it, in spirit and in the words itself, it is clearly the Word of God in some intangible way. But... it contradicts itself time and time again, and just as much as I can hear the voice of God, I can hear the voice of the writer. I simply cannot believe that the Bible is the exact word of God, or that it's inerrant, and I find it difficult and upsetting when people make (often convoluted) arguments about Scripture. It feels to me that its just people inspired by God and in communion with him, writing in the same way many pastors write sermons.

Many people on this forum seem to take Scripture as wholly true and directly the Word of God. Why? How?

(And I suspect this is probably in the wrong forum thread, so my apologies to the Mods!)

I have problems with that too. There are so many passages that approve of genocide, rape, slavery, massacre, etc., some of which commanded by God and none of it condemned by him, I don't feel I can accept it as God's word, but as the words of men using threats and fearmongering to push their own agenda of religious power.
 
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Winken

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I have problems with that too. There are so many passages that approve of genocide, rape, slavery, massacre, etc., some of which commanded by God and none of it condemned by him, I don't feel I can accept it as God's word, but as the words of men using threats and fearmongering to push their own agenda of religious power.
.........and you would apply those passages to whom?
 
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Hidden In Him

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In my experience of reading it, in spirit and in the words itself, it is clearly the Word of God in some intangible way. But... it contradicts itself time and time again, and just as much as I can hear the voice of God, I can hear the voice of the writer. I simply cannot believe that the Bible is the exact word of God, or that it's inerrant...

Hi, Frances.
When I first started turning to God I didn't sweat the apparent contradictions, or anything that might have dissuaded me from believing for that matter. I found that by believing the Lord He was able to open my eyes to the fact that a number of the supposed "contradictions" were just that, only supposed. And a number of the verses that made Him appear evil were likewise based on misconceptions. To this day I really don't even pay them much attention, because it's just the Devil trying to dissuade me from believing, and salvation. If I hadn't believed in His goodness I might not have had ears to hear His explanations to me of what the truth was, so I have learned who to listen to and who not to.

That having been said, I will say something here that might be an offense to some, but I'll say it nonetheless: The Lord never said, "I will leave you a book, and it will guide you into all truth." He said He would send His Spirit to do so (John 16:13). I am an avid student of the word of God, and I use a comparative study of the various Greek manuscripts when I do. Generally only those who study original languages know this, but the various Greek manuscripts used to translate our English translations contain numerous variations in the texts, usually several within any given paragraph. I hold certain Greek texts to be more authoritative, but how I know is by asking the Holy Spirit for discernment.

The point, then, is this: If you pray incessantly for the Holy Spirit to guide you, He will indeed lead you into all truth. This holds true even if you should never become a student of original languages. If you make it your incessant prayer that He become your Teacher, He will show you what is true and what is not. It doesn't really concern me whether the word is inerrant or not, because someone's translation or some scribes alterations are not what I base my faith on anyway. I base it on the ability of the One God sent to guide me, and He never fails. He has confirmed to me time after time after time what the true interpretations were. If you do the same, He will continue to develop your ability to hear HIS voice, be able to recognize accuracies from falsehoods, and grow in an accurate understanding of His word. Pray incessantly for the Spirit of God to lead you into all truth, as the Lord Jesus Christ has promised you He would, and He will do so.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Hi,

I am, somewhat tentatively, trying to embrace the Christian faith. There's lots of parts of it that speak to me, and other parts that I find very difficult to believe in. I think at the moment, I'm struggling with the idea of scripture as guided by God - you know, the "God-breathed" thing.

I can agree that the Bible is beautiful and that it speaks to me as the word of God - oddly enough, that almost seems obvious. In my experience of reading it, in spirit and in the words itself, it is clearly the Word of God in some intangible way. But... it contradicts itself time and time again, and just as much as I can hear the voice of God, I can hear the voice of the writer. I simply cannot believe that the Bible is the exact word of God, or that it's inerrant, and I find it difficult and upsetting when people make (often convoluted) arguments about Scripture. It feels to me that its just people inspired by God and in communion with him, writing in the same way many pastors write sermons.

Many people on this forum seem to take Scripture as wholly true and directly the Word of God. Why? How?

(And I suspect this is probably in the wrong forum thread, so my apologies to the Mods!)

I have problems with that too. There are so many passages that approve of genocide, rape, slavery, massacre, etc., some of which commanded by God and none of it condemned by him, I don't feel I can accept it as God's word, but as the words of men using threats and fearmongering to push their own agenda of religious power.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Hi, Frances.
When I first started turning to God I didn't sweat the apparent contradictions, or anything that might have dissuaded me from believing for that matter. I found that by believing the Lord He was able to open my eyes to the fact that a number of the supposed "contradictions" were just that, only supposed. And a number of the verses that made Him appear evil were likewise based on misconceptions. To this day I really don't even pay them much attention, because it's just the Devil trying to dissuade me from believing, and salvation. If I hadn't believed in His goodness I might not have had ears to hear His explanations to me of what the truth was, so I have learned who to listen to and who not to.

That having been said, I will say something here that might be an offense to some, but I'll say it nonetheless: The Lord never said, "I will leave you a book, and it will guide you into all truth." He said He would send His Spirit to do so (John 16:13). I am an avid student of the word of God, and I use a comparative study of the various Greek manuscripts when I do. Generally only those who study original languages know this, but the various Greek manuscripts used to translate our English translations contain numerous variations in the texts, usually several within any given paragraph. I hold certain Greek texts to be more authoritative, but how I know is by asking the Holy Spirit for discernment.

The point, then, is this: If you pray incessantly for the Holy Spirit to guide you, He will indeed lead you into all truth. This holds true even if you should never become a student of original languages. If you make it your incessant prayer that He become your Teacher, He will show you what is true and what is not. It doesn't really concern me whether the word is inerrant or not, because someone's translation or some scribes alterations are not what I base my faith on anyway. I base it on the ability of the One God sent to guide me, and He never fails. He has confirmed to me time after time after time what the true interpretations were. If you do the same, He will continue to develop your ability to hear HIS voice, be able to recognize accuracies from falsehoods, and grow in an accurate understanding of His word. Pray incessantly for the Spirit of God to lead you into all truth, as the Lord Jesus Christ has promised you He would, and He will do so.


Verses that imply evilness from God are just misconceptions from the Devil? Then how do you explain verses like these?

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense.
(Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-18 NLT)

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’(Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.”(Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

That night the angel of the Lord went forth and struck down one hundred and eighty five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. Early the next morning, there they were, all the corpuses of the dead. (2 Kings 19:35 NAB)

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, “All of you who are on the LORD’s side, come over here and join me.” And all the Levites came. He told them, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors.” The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, “Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing.” (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. (Numbers 31:7-18)

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you. (Dueteronomy 20:10-14)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.’ If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.(Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
 
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Hidden In Him

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@CrystalDragon:

"To this day I really don't even pay them much attention, because it's just the Devil trying to dissuade me from believing, and salvation... I have learned who to listen to and who not to."

Apparently you weren't listening.

So you believe that verses which imply the evilness of God are not misconceptions? You are essentially saying you have a hatred for God. Is this correct?
 
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CrystalDragon

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@CrystalDragon:

"To this day I really don't even pay them much attention, because it's just the Devil trying to dissuade me from believing, and salvation... I have learned who to listen to and who not to."

Apparently you weren't listening.

So you believe that verses which imply the evilness of God are not misconceptions? You are essentially saying you have a hatred for God. Is this correct?

I'm not saying I have a hatred of God. I have a disgust and anger toward those actions.

What I mean is that I don't see how that can be a "misconception" of anything else, unless maybe those people thought God was commanding those things but really wasn't.
 
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Hidden In Him

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I'm not saying I have a hatred of God. I have a disgust and anger toward those actions.

Ok. I'm very glad to hear you say that. I was asking because I needed to know what I had to work with.

If you love the Lord Jesus Christ, then please consider what I tell you. I can deal with every passage you quoted one by one, and will at least deal try to deal with one or two here. But to start with, every single passage you quoted was Old Testament, and when you are reading Old Testament commandments you have to understand what God was dealing with: A people in the flesh.

Let me explain. Suppose God chose as His holy people one nationality today, be it all Americans, all Mexicans, all Brits, etc. Or more accurately, say He chose one specific race, like the blacks or hispanics. As with any race or nationality, He would have some who loved and obeyed Him willingly out of love, but the rest would go into it kicking and screaming, and be very prone to rebelling against Him whenever things started rubbing them the least bit the wrong way. This was the situation our God was in when He chose the Jewish race. He knew full well most of the Jews would rebel against Him, and it's a miracle He didn't destroy them all more than once (Deuteronomy 9:13-14). There has ever always been only a remnant who truly loved God, and that is still true of you and I today. It is part of why the Lord turned to the Gentiles.

But He needed a people, A. through whom He could give the law, much of which allowed Him to prophetically foreshadow what would take place in New Testament times (through sabbaths, Jewish feast days and holy days, circumcision, clean and unclean foods, a whole list of things) and B. more importantly, He needed a people through whose genealogy the Son of God could be born. The Messiah would have to be born of a woman to fulfill God'd word (Genesis 3:15), and that meant God would need a race of people through whom He could make this happen.

Why I it important? This meant that He, of necessity, would have to work to keep a rebellious people in line until the Messiah could be born, and that meant bending His ultimate will and desires to theirs somewhat, to keep them from rejecting Him altogether. Several times Jesus explained that He allowed the Jews to have things that were never His perfect will for them, but that they nevertheless insisted upon. For instance, they insisted on having a king. The Lord told Samuel that was not His will, but the people insisted "We want a king," so they got their king (1 Samuel 8:1-9). Jesus explained to His disciples that God never intended to allow divorce, but the Jews would have went bananas if He had not, because they were carnal and given to strife and couldn't live in peace with their wives (Matthew 5:31-32). There are actually numerous things in this sermon where Jesus told them that things the Jews had been allowed by God to do were not His will, nor were they ever, including killing one's enemies, and retaliating against those who cheated you out of money or cruelly mistreated you (Matthew 5:38-48). But He could only tell these things to those who would become the true sons of Israel, the spiritual Israel; those who would willingly obey these commandments and His true will because they truly loved Him and trusted in Him.

You could include among those things God never wanted, slavery, and the subjugation of women, both of which have since been outlawed in Christian nations around the world, specifically as a result of Christian leaders leading the fight in decrying how immoral these practices were.

Some of your passages would take more explanation, like Deuteronomy 20:10-14, but let me deal with a few of them more specifically:

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip. But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God. (2 Samuel 6:3-7NAB)

Both of these passages deal with coming too close to the Presence of a thrice Holy God. Both Jews and Gentiles needed to understand that when they were considering approaching the God of the Jews, they were approaching the Creator of the Heaven and earth. This was not like approaching some stone idol erected to replace some demon that manifested long ago in the form of some god. This was coming into close proximity with a Being who could blow the entire universe away with the slightest move of His finger, and although He was a merciful God, NO ONE was coming near Him without Holiness. He is and will forevermore be a God to be feared. Anyone who sees Him as He truly is in Heaven yet does not fear Him will be stone-cold crazy. Scratch that. Even crazy people will know to fear the Living God if they see Him as He truly is. But through Christ's sacrifice we can now come boldly to the throne of grace. That means that spite of how immensely powerful He is, we can still do so because of the price His Son paid for us, through His death.

It is said that the beginning of wisdom is to fear God, but that the greatest wisdom is to love Him. This is what John meant by the words "Perfect love casts out all fear." But this perfected love that finally eliminates all fear of Him, such that we can walk into the very Presence and Power of the Creator of the universe Himself, and abide in the blinding Power of Almighty God, will only come to us when we have finally perfected obedience, for without holiness no one will see God.

I could say more, but I'll leave it there for now. When I have time I'll come back and deal with the rest of your passages.

Hope I didn't offend you,
HiH
 
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Frances6098

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Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your replies - they truly have been so helpful to me. I'll read over what you said again and spend some time thinking about it.

To answer Adstar's question - I'm not worried about the big contraditions, rather the little ones, like the differences between Jesus' last words on the cross. What I struggle with is the idea that Jesus' last words can't be 3 different things, so the Bible cannot be 100% accurate, and yet people treat it like it is. To be a Christian seems to involve complete reliance on Scripture, which I find quite frustrating. Even though it feels like a book that comes from God, it doesn't feel like a book that comes directly from God with no changes or human layer.

Anyway, I am off to try praying in Church for the first time, so wish me luck!

Frances
 
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Jane_Doe

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To answer Adstar's question - I'm not worried about the big contraditions, rather the little ones, like the differences between Jesus' last words on the cross. What I struggle with is the idea that Jesus' last words can't be 3 different things, so the Bible cannot be 100% accurate, and yet people treat it like it is. To be a Christian seems to involve complete reliance on Scripture, which I find quite frustrating.
Note: you don't have to rely *just* on scripture. There is also God Himself, who answers prayers and testifies through the Spirit. God is not dead nor is His mute-- He's alive, loves you, and wants you to talk to Him like any loving Father. That's super important.
Anyway, I am off to try praying in Church for the first time, so wish me luck!
Awesome!!!!
 
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CrystalDragon

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Note: you don't have to rely *just* on scripture. There is also God Himself, who answers prayers and testifies through the Spirit. God is not dead nor is His mute-- He's alive, loves you, and wants you to talk to Him like any loving Father. That's super important.

Awesome!!!!

What about those who God seems to say things to that are the opposite of what he tells others? Why hasn't anyone thought to ask God the big questions, or why doesn't God just clear up everything for everyone? He had no problem showing himself in the Old Testament, but nowadays people can't agree on Christian doctrines are there are 20,000 denominations of Christianity—God could easily clear everything up and make it just one denomination, right?
 
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Hidden In Him

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What about those who God seems to say things to that are the opposite of what he tells others?... why doesn't God just clear up everything for everyone? He had no problem showing himself in the Old Testament, but nowadays people can't agree on Christian doctrines are there are 20,000 denominations of Christianity—God could easily clear everything up and make it just one denomination, right?

He will again show Himself in the end-times as He did in Old Testament times, and many who now stand in positions of leadership in the church yet teach falsehoods will come under judgment, as they did back then. As scripture says, "Judgment will begin with the household of God." First He must judge His own household, and then He can begin judging the world. But He must first purify His church from corruption, or the world will have nowhere to go when the harvest begins.

There is some evidence the judgment has already started, because I hear increasing numbers of cases of ministers dying tragic deaths while in ministry, many while actually in the pulpit ministering (several have been shot). But I don't think it has begun in earnest yet by any means.

Not sure if that will come as good news to you, but our Lord will not wait forever. He will have a holy bride, and He will bring about the end-time harvest, and is not about to let it be postponed indefinitely. In His patience, He has tolerated our disobedience for a very long time, centuries upon centuries in fact. But the days are coming when He will tolerate it no longer.
 
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