Trivia Thread

[Ann M]

So that leaves me with 2 options - Christ or Pope John Paul II.........

any more clues ?

 

[Paul S]

So that leaves me with 2 options - Christ or Pope John Paul II.........

any more clues ?

Yes. There currently is no Emperor, and there's hasn't been since 1806. So when would this Collect be used?

 

[Ann M]

Good Friday?

 

[Paul S]

Good Friday?

No Feast may be celebrated from Palm Sunday to Low Sunday, and from Maundy Thursday to Easter Tuesday, even the Commemoration of such a feast is omitted for the year.

And there's no Emperor on Good Friday, either.

I did say it was a trick question, but the emperor referred to is a real emperor. It's not symbolic, like Christ or the Pope.

There just hasn't been one since 1806.

 

[Ann M]

The office of Holy Roman Emperor was abolished with the empire in 1806. Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor, who may also be referred to as Francis von Habsburg or Emperor Franz I of Austria (February 12, 1768 - March 2, 1835) was the last Holy Roman Emperor, ruling from 1792 until August 6, 1806, when the Empire was disbanded.

Possible dates would then be:- Feburary 12, March 2, ?

 

[Paul S]

The office of Holy Roman Emperor was abolished with the empire in 1806. Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor, who may also be referred to as Francis von Habsburg or Emperor Franz I of Austria (February 12, 1768 - March 2, 1835) was the last Holy Roman Emperor, ruling from 1792 until August 6, 1806, when the Empire was disbanded.

Correct.

Possible dates would then be:- Feburary 12, March 2, ?

If you had a good Missal, you could look these things up.

These commemorations, by the way, aren't set to a specific day. Before 1962, the priest could generally choose which collects to say, other than the required ones for the day's ferias and feasts.

The Collect for the Emperor is among the votive collects, which the priest can generally use at almost any time. Except this one.

 

[Paul S]

I'll let you continue to ponder the last question, and give you a saint one:

Who are the Forty Holy Martyrs, when's their feast day, and what's special about the fortieth?

Also, what is the name of the youngest, and how did he die?

 

[Ann M]

THE FORTY MARTYRS OF SEBASTE—A.D. 320
Feast: March 10
From St. Basil's Homily on their festival, Hom. 20, t. 1, p. 453, and three discourses of St. Gregory of Nyssa, t. 2, p. 203, t. 3, pp. 499, 504, followed by St. Ephrem. ed. Vatic. Gr. and Lat. t. 2, p. 341. St. Gaudentius, St. Chrysostom, quoted by Photius. See Tillemont, t. 5, p. 518. Ruinart, p. 523. Ceillier, t. 4, 162 Jos. Assemani in Cal. Univ. ad 11 Martii, t. 6, p. 172.

These holy martyrs suffered at Sebaste, in the Lesser Armenia, under the Emperor Licinius, in 320. They were of different countries, but enrolled in the same troop; all in the flower of their age, comely, brave, and robust, and were become considerable for their services. St. Gregory of Nyssa and Procopius say they were of the Thundering Legion, so famous under Marcus Aurelius for the miraculous rain and victory obtained by their prayers. This was the twelfth legion, and then quartered in Armenia. Lysias was duke or general of the forces, and Agricola the governor of the province. The latter having signified to the army the orders of the emperor Licinius for all to sacrifice, these forty went boldly up to him, and said they were Christians, and that no torments should make them ever abandon their holy religion. The judge first endeavoured to gain them by mild usage; as by representing to them the dishonour that would attend their refusal to do what was required, and by making them large promises of preferment and high favour with the emperor in case of compliance. Finding these methods of gentleness ineffectual, he had recourse to threats, and these the most terrifying, if they continued disobedient to the emperor's order, but all in vain. To his promises they answered that he could give them nothing equal to what he would deprive them of; and to his threats, that his power only extended over their bodies which they had learned to despise when their souls were at stake. The governor, finding them all resolute, caused them to be torn with whips, and their sides to be rent with iron hooks; after which they were loaded with chains, and committed to jail.

After some days, Lysias, their general, coming from Caesarea to Sebaste, they were re-examined, and no less generously rejected the large promises made them than they despised the torments they were threatened with. The governor, highly offended at their courage, and that liberty of speech with which they accosted him, devised an extraordinary kind of death, which, being slow and severe, he hoped would shake their constancy. The cold in Armenia is very sharp, especially in March, and towards the end of winter, when the wind is north, as it then was, it being also at that time a severe frost. Under the walls of the town stood a pond, which was frozen so hard that it would bear walking upon with safety. The judge ordered the saints to be exposed quite naked on the ice;[1] and in order to tempt them the more powerfully to renounce their faith, a warm bath was prepared at a small distance from the frozen pond, for any of this company to go to who were disposed to purchase their temporal ease and safety on that condition. The martyrs, on hearing their sentence, ran joyfully to the place, and without waiting to be stripped, undressed themselves, encouraging one another in the same manner as is usual among soldiers in military expeditions attended with hardships and dangers, saying that one bad night would purchase them a happy eternity.[2] They also made this their joint prayer: "Lord, we are forty who arc engaged in this combat; grant that we may be forty crowned, and that not one be wanting to this sacred number." The guards in the mean time ceased not to persuade them to sacrifice, that by so doing they might be allowed to pass to the warm bath. But though it is not easy to form a just idea of the bitter pain they must have undergone, of the whole number only one had the misfortune to be overcome; who, losing courage, went off from the pond to seek the relief in readiness for such as were disposed to renounce their faith; but as the devil usually deceives his adorers, the apostate no sooner entered the warm water but he expired. This misfortune afflicted the martyrs; but they were quickly comforted by seeing his place and their number miraculously filled up. A sentinel was warming himself near the bath, having been posted there to observe if any of the martyrs were inclined to submit. While he was attending, he had a vision of blessed spirits descending from heaven on the martyrs, and distributing, as from their king, rich presents and precious garments; St. Ephrem adds crowns to all these generous soldiers, one only excepted, who was their faint-hearted companion already mentioned. The guard, being struck with the celestial vision and the apostate's desertion, was converted upon it; and by a particular motion of the Holy Ghost, threw off his clothes, and placed himself in his stead amongst the thirty-nine martyrs. Thus God heard their request, though in another manner than they imagined: "Which ought to make us adore the impenetrable secrets of his mercy and justice," says St. Ephrem, "in this instance, no less than in the reprobation of Judas and the election of St. Matthias."

In the morning the judge ordered both those that were dead with the cold, and those that were still alive, to be laid on carriages, and cast into a fire. When the rest were thrown into a waggon to be carried to the pile, the youngest of them (whom the acts call Melito) was found alive; and the executioners, hoping he would change his resolution when he came to himself, left him behind. His mother, a woman of mean condition, and a widow, but rich in faith and worthy to have a son a martyr, observing this false compassion, reproached the executioners; and when she came up to her son, whom she found quite frozen, not able to stir, and scarce breathing, he looked on her with languishing eyes, and made a little sign with his weak hand to comfort her. She exhorted him to persevere to the end, and, fortified by the Holy Ghost, took him up, and put him with her own hands into the waggon with the rest of the martyrs, not only without shedding a tear, but with a countenance full of joy, saying courageously: "Go, go, son, proceed to the end of this happy journey with thy companions, that thou mayest not be the last of them that shall present themselves before God." Nothing can be more inflamed or more pathetic than the discourse which St. Ephrem puts into her mouth, by which he expresses her contempt of life and all earthly things, and her ardent love and desire of eternal life. This holy father earnestly entreats her to conjure this whole troop of martyrs to join in imploring the divine mercy in favour of his sinful soul.[3] Their bodies were burned, and their ashes thrown into the river; but the Christians secretly carried off or purchased part of them with money. Some of these precious relics were kept in Caesarea, and St. Basil says of them: "Like bulwarks, they are our protection against the inroads of enemies."[4] He adds that every one implored their succour, and that they raised up those that had fallen, strengthened the weak, and invigorated the fervour of the saints. SS Basil and Emmelia, the holy parents of St. Basil the Great, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. Peter of Sebaste, and St. Macrina, procured a great share of these relics.[5] St. Emmelia put some of them in the church she built near Anneses, the village where they resided. The solemnity with which they were received was extraordinary, and they were honoured by miracles, as St. Gregory relates. One of these was a miraculous cure wrought on a lame soldier, the truth of which he attests from his own knowledge, both of the fact and the person who published it everywhere. He adds: "I buried the bodies of my parents by the relics of these holy martyrs, that in the resurrection they may rise with the encouragers of their faith; for I know they have great power with God, of which I have seen clear proofs and undoubted testimonies." St. Gaudentius, bishop of Brescia, writes in his sermon on these martyrs: "God gave me a share of these venerable relics, and granted me to found this church in their honor."[6] He says, that the two nieces of St. Basil, both abbesses, gave them to him as he passed by Caesarea, in a journey to Jerusalem; which venerable treasure they had received from their uncle. Portions of their relics were also carried to Constantinople, and there honored with great veneration, as Sozomen[7] and Procopius[8] have recorded at large, with an account of several visions and miracles, which attended the veneration paid to them in that city.

Though we are not all called to the trial of martyrdom, we are all bound daily to fight, and to conquer too. By multiplied victories which we gain over our passions and spiritual enemies, by the exercise of meekness, patience, humility, purity, and all other virtues, we shall render our triumph complete, and attain to the crown of bliss. But are we not confounded at our sloth in our spiritual warfare when we look on the conflicts of the martyrs? "The eloquence of the greatest orators, and the wisdom of the philosophers were struck dumb: the very tyrants and judges stood amazed and were not able to find words to express their admiration, when they beheld the faith, the cheerfulness and constancy of the holy martyrs in their sufferings. But what excuse shall we allege in the tremendous judgment, who, without meeting with such cruel persecution and torments, are so remiss and slothful in maintaining the spiritual life of our souls, and the charity of God! What shall we do in that terrible day when the holy martyrs, placed near the throne of God, with great confidence shall display their glorious scars, the proofs of their fidelity? What shall we then show? shall we produce our love for God? true faith? a disengagement of our affections from earthly things? souls freed from the tyranny of the passions? retirement and peace of mind? meekness? alms-deeds and compassion? holy and pure prayer? sincere compunction? watching and tears? Happy shall he be whom these works shall attend. He shall then be the companion of the martyrs, and shall appear with the same confidence before Christ and his angels. We beseech you, O most holy martyrs, who cheerfully suffered torments and death for his love, and are now more familiarly united to him, that you intercede with God for us slothful and wretched sinners, that he bestow on us the grace of Christ, by which we may be enlightened and enabled to love him."[9]

Endnotes

1 The acts, and the greater part of the writers of their lives, suppose they were to stand in the very water. But this is a circumstance which Tillemont, Baillie, Ruinart, Ceillier, and others correct from St. Basil and St. Gregory of Nyssa.

2 St. Gregory of Nyssa says that they endured three days and three nights this lingering death, which carried off their limbs one after another.

3 St. Ephrem, Or. in 40 Mart. t. 2, Op. Gr. and Lat. 54, ed. Nov. Vatic. an. 1743.

4 2 St. Basil,, Or. 20, p. 459.

5 St. Greg. Nyss. Or. 3, de 40 Mart. t. 2, pp. 212, 213.

6 S. Gaud. Brix. Serm. 17, de 40 Mart.

7 L. 9, c. 1, 2.

8 L. 1, de aedific, Justinian, c. 7.

9 S. Ephrem Homil. in SS. Martyres, Op. Gr. and Lat. ed. Vat. an. 1743, t. 2, p. 341.

(Taken from Vol. III of "The Lives of the Fathers, Martyrs and Other Principal Saints" by the Rev. Alban Butler, the 1864 edition published by D. & J. Sadlier, & Company)

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[Ann M]

Forty martyrs meatballs

Recipe By : A Continual Feast by Evelyn Birge Vitz
Serving Size : 6 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Main Dish

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 1/2 pounds lamb -- ground
2 cloves garlic -- pressed
1 teaspoon salt
black pepper -- freshly ground
3 teaspoons mint -- dried
1/2 cup pine nuts
1/2 cup parsley -- finely chopped
1 tablespoon vegetable oil
lettuce

Combine the lamb with the garlic, salt to taste, pepper, mint, pine nuts
and parsley. Mix thoroughly. Form into 40 meat balls about 1 1/4 inches
in diameter. (Make it easy;divide the meat into 4 parts, divide each
part into 10 meatballs).
Heat the oil in a large skillet. Saute the meatballs until nicely
browned on the outside, but still a little pink on the inside. Turn them
often with a spatula. Remove excess grease as it is rendered.
Serve the meatballs on a bed of lettuce in 5 rows of 8 each or someother
clearly numerical arrangement.
With them serve Rice or Bulghur Pilaf
Variation: You can also add to the mixture 1/2 tsp allspice or
coriander.
In a number of countries a special dish is prepared once a year to honor
the memory of the Forty Martyrs of Sebaste...
In Aremenia they eat forty stuffed wheat balls (whose ingredients are
hard to come by in this country); in Greece as well the Forty Martyrs
are honored by the eating of dishes that stress the number 40. There
are pies made with forty layers of phyllo pastry, dishes consisting of
forty pancakes or made with 40 kinds of wild herbs.
Marion Baumgarten Marion10@wwa.com
Mother to Martha (6) and Peter (3)
Die Wunderkinder

 

[Paul S]

Interesting recipe. Of course, you can't eat it if the Martyrs' feast falls on a Friday.

And now I have to go find another saint. The rubrics questions give me more time to think of the next one.

 

[Paul S]

I'll find another obscure saint, but since it's Easter, I'll give you an easy rubrics question in the meantime.

How does the ending of Mass change during the Easter Octave? (something's added)

 

[Ann M]

Correct.



If you had a good Missal, you could look these things up.

These commemorations, by the way, aren't set to a specific day. Before 1962, the priest could generally choose which collects to say, other than the required ones for the day's ferias and feasts.

The Collect for the Emperor is among the votive collects, which the priest can generally use at almost any time. Except this one.

Good missals cost good money! Ah well, we'll just stick to our Daily Mass missal for the moment, and continue to GUESS!!

So how about May 21

 

[Paul S]

Good missals cost good money! Ah well, we'll just stick to our Daily Mass missal for the moment, and continue to GUESS!!

So how about May 21

How about no?

And did I mention that there hasn't been an emperor since 1806?

 

[Ann M]

Yes, Three times!

 

[Paul S]

Yes, Three times!

That should be a big hint.

Give up yet?

The Easter question should be easier. And I'll find some more saints.

 

[Ann M]

I'll find another obscure saint, but since it's Easter, I'll give you an easy rubrics question in the meantime.

How does the ending of Mass change during the Easter Octave? (something's added)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my missal doesn't show that either I'll go surfing instead.

By the way You're the one responsible for Hubby sitting there laughing at the moment Something to do with me wondering thru the house muttering "Paul, Trivia....Bah Humbeg!"

 

[Ann M]

I'll find another obscure saint, but since it's Easter, I'll give you an easy rubrics question in the meantime.

How does the ending of Mass change during the Easter Octave? (something's added)

V. Fidelium ánimæ † per misericórdiam Dei requiéscant in pace.
R. Amen.


V. May the souls † of the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
R. Amen.

 

[Ann M]

Yes. There currently is no Emperor, and there's hasn't been since 1806. So when would this Collect be used?

In an era when throughout Christianity East and West the Liturgy penetrated every facet of life from the farm-house and fisher's cot to manor-house and castle-keep, when the whole year was subject to the Church calendar, every royal court in Christendom responded to the holy days in like manner. Christmas was observed by them with great solemnity, the King of England waiting anxiously for the branch and blossom of the Glastonbury Thorn which then as now would bloom on Christmas, despite the cold (as a reminder of its origin in the staff of St Joseph of Arimathea; when bringing the Holy Grail to England he planted his staff, and it took root, becoming the famed Thorn). New Year's Day was always marked by a solemn High Mass, after which the various Kings would receive the great officers of state, the leading bishops and abbots, and foreign envoys. On Epiphany, monarchs presented their principal church or chapel royal gold, frankincense,and myrrh; to this day the Lord Chamberlain presents these gifts on behalf of the Queen (George III was the last to do it himself) to the Chapel Royal, St James's.

So If I read this correctly, the collect could be said on New Year's Day or possibly Epiphany?

I'll go for New Year's Day......

 

[Paul S]

V. Fidelium ánimæ † per misericórdiam Dei requiéscant in pace.
R. Amen.

That's in the Office, not the Mass.

The addition occurs in both rites of Mass, so if you attended today (or last night), you should have noticed it.

By the way You're the one responsible for Hubby sitting there laughing at the moment Something to do with me wondering thru the house muttering "Paul, Trivia....Bah Humbeg!"

But you keep coming back and wanting to learn.

And the collect for the Emperor is not used on New Year's Day. I think I also mentioned this one's a trick question.

 

[Ann M]

In Easter Week is said:
S. Ite, Missa est, alleluia, alleluia. P. Go, the Mass is ended, alleluia, alleluia.
M. Deo gratias, alleluia, alleluia. S. Thanks be to God, alleluia, alleluia.