Trinity

[Clare73]

.

 

[Albion]

Jesus not 'like God' he is God.
John 10:30

30 I and My Father are one.”

Philippians 2:5-6
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

John 10:33
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Holy Spirit is also God
Acts 5:3-5
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

2 Corinthians 3:17-18

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as a]">[a]by the Spirit of the Lord.

Yet God is one.
Isaiah 44:6


6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

Yes! And those are only SOME of the Scriptural passages that prove that Jesus was God in the flesh. Not only does the Bible testify to the fact in various places, but Jesus affirms it personally, and he also behaves as only God can do. The evidence of this truth is, indeed, almost overwhelming.

 

[Clare73]

And then the NT shows the Holy Spirit to be God.

The Holy Spirit is a person - "he" (Jn 16:13-14), with
--intelligence (Lk 12:12, Jn 14:26),
--a will (Ac 16:6-7; 1 Co 12:11),
--personal attributes, acting as a person; i.e.,
speaking (Ac 8:29), deciding (Ac 15:28), forbidding (Ac16:7), testifying (Act 5:2; Jn 15:26), etc.

The Holy Spirit and Jesus are one (2 Co 3:16-18; Ac 16:7; Ro 8:9; Gal 4:6; Php 1:19; 1 Pe 1:11).
What Jesus is (Jn 1:1), the Holy Spirit is.

The Holy Spirit proceeds out-from-within (ek-poreuetai) the Father (Jn 15:26) just as Jesus does
(Jn 8:42, 16:27 28, 17:8).

The Holy Spirit is God:
the Adonai of Isa 6:8-10 is the Holy Spirit (Ac 28:25),
lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God (Ac 5:3-4),
the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God (1 Co 2:11-14).

The NT shows the Spirit of God to be the Spirit of Jesus, who issues from the Father just as Jesus does, and who also issues from the Son;
who is a person just as Jesus is, and
who is part of the Godhead, just as Jesus and the Father are.

 

[Nux]

Because the Church was Trinitarian long before the appearance of the comma and afterwards of its acknowledgment of its clear addition.

I don't see any evidences of that in the Apostles' creed, which is considered to be the essence of apostles' teaching, for example Apostles' Creed
just a simple gospel, which even child can explain and understand, nothing more.

 

[Nux]

Yes! And those are only SOME of the Scriptural passages that prove that Jesus was God in the flesh

Lets make it clear. Title "God" in 99.9% of cases of its usage in NT relates to the Jahveh the Father. And there are several cases when it is ascribed to Jesus. So, if I understand you correctly, you believe that Jesus is the incarnate Father?

 

[Albion]

Lets make it clear. Title "God" in 99.9% of cases of its usage in NT relates to the Jahveh the Father.

That's not so.

And there are several cases when it is ascribed to Jesus. So, if I understand you correctly, you believe that Jesus is the incarnate Father?

There is one God only, and he is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

 

[Albion]

I don't see any evidences of that in the Apostles' creed, which is considered to be the essence of apostles' teaching, for example Apostles' Creed
just a simple gospel, which even child can explain and understand, nothing more.

The Apostles' Creed is ancient, it's true. It is not, however, a creed in the sense of an agreement on essential doctrine that was arrived at by a church council.

The Apostles' Creed, so called, was not written by the Apostles or the wider church, but is reputedly an outgrowth of an early baptismal formula, what a candidate professed as part of his commitment to the faith.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The Apostles' Creed is ancient, it's true. It is not, however, a creed in the sense of an agreement on essential doctrine that was arrived at by a church council.

The Apostles' Creed, so called, was not written by the Apostles or the wider church, but is reputedly an outgrowth of an early baptismal formula, what a candidate professed as part of his commitment to the faith.

Yes if I recall all the bullet points of that creed actually refute the basic teachings of the Gnostic heresies.

 

[Nux]

That's not so.

You may read the Gospel of John for example and see it by yourself, so simply "no" is not an argument

 

[Nux]

The Apostles' Creed, so called, was not written by the Apostles or the wider church, but is reputedly an outgrowth of an early baptismal formula, what a candidate professed as part of his commitment to the faith.

So what does it change? It is the most ancient one and so better reflects beliefs of the early church when they was not yet influenced by hellenistic philosophy.

 

[Albion]

You may read the Gospel of John for example and see it by yourself, so simply "no" is not an argument

You said that 99.9% of the references to God in the NT refer to the Father, and that's not so. It's your assumption. So now you come back and tell me that ONE Gospel does it...and that this proves your earlier assertion.

We don't think so, and it's rather obvious why that's so.

 

[Albion]

So what does it change? It is the most ancient one and so better reflects beliefs of the early church when they was not yet influenced by hellenistic philosophy.

But being perhaps the most widely accepted TODAY out of all the creeds of antiquity is its main claim to fame. It wasn't a creed created by the wider church, cannot actually be traced to the Apostles, and didn't become officially accepted by the Catholic Church until the Middle Ages. You prefer it, but that's a personal preference.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

But being perhaps the most widely accepted TODAY out of all the creeds of antiquity is its main claim to fame. It wasn't a creed created by the wider church, cannot actually be traced to the Apostles, and didn't become officially accepted by the Catholic Church until the Middle Ages. You prefer it, but that's a personal preference.

Yes I was surprised when I looked up the dating of Apostles Creed a few months back that it's dating by historians was not that much better than the Nicene Creed. I was sure it would be dated back to the Apostolic Fathers...

 

[Childofgodharrison]

Ev

Yes because that would be Arianism or Monarchanianism/Sabellianism both of which got their own problems...


and by the way belief in the Trinity is on the terms of service somewhere on the board for you detractors... (later/edit) actually just found it.


Religious Beliefs

Christian Faith:
The first group is for Christian faith groups that accept the Nicene Creed as defined in CF's Statement of Faith.

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This second group is for members who are followers of a non-Christian religion or faith. If your faith group is not listed, please open a support ticket to request the addition of your faith group to the list.

Distinction between Christianity and Other Religions & Faiths:
Faith groups that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (relinquishing none of His Godhood, Incarnated as fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Faith groups that do not believe in the deity of Christ, nor in the triune nature of God, may not post in Christian Only forums.


Faith Groups List

Every time someone open the subject about the trinity the people who run the website will shut it down. I don't understand that. They act as if it's blasphemy to talk about the trinity.

 

[Clare73]

Ev

Every time someone open the subject about the trinity the people who run the website will shut it down. I don't understand that. They act as if it's blasphemy to talk about the trinity.

I think they do not want a discussion which might include denying it.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

They act as if it's blasphemy to talk about the trinity.

Well in fairness this stuff goes back to the early days of Christianity back before the New Testament was even canonized.... back then there were all kinds of groups teaching all kinds of stuff about God, and some of it was pretty extreme like the guy linked below.


Marcion - New World Encyclopedia

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I heard some people believe in the trinity. Is it biblical? Is there any scriptural support for this belief? I would appreciate if you could share your thoughts on this matter.

Jesus prayed to the Father regarding those who would believe after He was gone that "they be one as we are one." The type of oneness expressed in the trinity is a unique experience that people born again by the Holy Spirit can live: Not just in relation with God, but in relation with other people who are likewise born again by the Holy Spirit.

The trinity oneness is different from the type of spiritual oneness expressed by other religions and non-religious mystics in that identity is kept.

In the trinity

All three persons are God, but retain their identities.

In the unity form of the world religions, being one, means ceding your identity and becoming part of the whole at least in application.

One main benefit of understanding the trinity and applying it in interpersonal relationships is in avoiding the occult by being incompatible.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

But there are a lot of people, most of the current christians actually, who pray to that "concept" or "harmonization" (or however else do you prefer to call it). It seems like idolatry to prey to the product of human's mind and not to Jahweh or Jesus, isn't it?

Yeah it's funny you alluding to the Apophatic theology of your Ukrainian Orthodox countrymen, while you yourself seem to be some kind of unofficial Arian...


But no its not wrong. There is a principle in Communications Theory that we are always communicating in some way, even when people are trying to be tight lipped. "You Cannot, Not Communicate." is the famous adage of that. And this applies in all fields including Christianity, teaching the Bible etc.

In my time in the various corners of the Christian world (especially the Protestant world, and this goes doubly for the Charismatic end of it), I have seen people teach all kinds of theology etc. by virtue of trying to do some kind of expository Bible study, or even topical Bible study. And this sort of thing comes up all the time in various Sunday School classes, Bible Classes, Catechism Classes. You really can't get away from some kind of position on this stuff. Because even if you don't want to address it, chances are someone will have a question on it, or maybe someone will be asking because they are around friends that are Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, Muslim etc. and they will bring up the faith and their position on various doctrines and why they believe your church etc. is wrong.


But even besides all that, I have seen a number of Bible Only people make all kinds of interesting theological claims about the Godhead teaching from the Bible. Ken Copeland is my favorite as far as heretical interpretations of scripture goes.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I recall learning about some terms such as Theosis and Perichoresis that would have been helpful in the above dialogues, but the conclusion sounds too 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

And they're religious leaders people listen to.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

For myself, belief in the Holy Trinity became more clear when I considered that God
created us in His image.

So for myself that meant that God created us, body, soul and spirit, and therefor God is the same.

The Father = the soul
The Son, = the body in Jesus
The Spirit = the Holy Spirit

All are one just as we are one with our soul, flesh and spirit

This makes the Trinity more understanding than trying to use other metaphors
like clovers and such.