Trinity

[Cappadocious]

You could say "person" or "personality." You have to ask why we are in a dichotomy? Because many images of God reduce God to being a principle, not a person. For example, arguing that there are three Persons and that they represent one God because they are all of the same nature, Deity, reduces God to an abstract principle., just as is human nature, in the case of human persons.

I have no need for the "x represents y" relation here. Furthermore, to say that the three persons are one God in virtue of x, y, z... does not entail that x, y, or z... is what God really is.

 

[StanJ]

The OT was in fact redacted from, earlier texts. That is supported by modern biblical scholarship.

That would be a fallacious, unsupported assertion.

 

[StanJ]

No, they were tight on with the OT. Later Christians read the Bible backwards, so to speak, and have projected meanings into the OT that were not intended.

Just as Jesus brought the New Covenant which was based on better promises than the Old Covenant, the New Testament completes what was already starting to show in the Old Testament. You can't read one without the other.

 

[StanJ]

Yes, but what does this "one with the Father" mean?

It means everything it is intended to mean. A singularity in focus and purpose of a Godhead that is triune in nature

 

[StanJ]

Yes, but that doesn't denote a trinity. It probably denotes a residual of polytheism.

Again the Trinity is based on the totality of scripture within the Old and New Testament. The Shema represents that it does not denote any kind of polytheism as the Jews were the first religious faith to propagate monotheism.

 

[StanJ]

Yes, but it happens all the time.

Which is why it why it needs to be recognized and addressed. Exegesis is what we are to strive for within the confines of proper biblical hermeneutics. Eisegesis inserts a doctrinal bias into the scripture that is not already there.

 

[Hoghead1]

That would be a fallacious, unsupported assertion.

But see, it isn't. For example, in the case of the Pentateuch, we know there were at least four sources from which the editors redacted the current version.

 

[Hoghead1]

It means everything it is intended to mean. A singularity in focus and purpose of a Godhead that is triune in nature

That does no answer my question. Do you mean here are three divine Persons, three unique personalities, who work in harmony? If so, that is still polytheism.

 

[Hoghead1]

Again the Trinity is based on the totality of scripture within the Old and New Testament. The Shema represents that it does not denote any kind of polytheism as the Jews were the first religious faith to propagate monotheism.

They also were subject to polytheistic practices, as the OT points out. Also, Gen. 1 strongly implies a society of personalities. If you are assuming that it is saying the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate, unique personalities, that, as I said before, you are professing polytheism, pure and simple.

 

[Hoghead1]

Which is why it why it needs to be recognized and addressed. Exegesis is what we are to strive for within the confines of proper biblical hermeneutics. Eisegesis inserts a doctrinal bias into the scripture that is not already there.

Yes, but what is your definition of "proper biblical hermeneutics?"

 

[StanJ]

But see, it isn't. For example, in the case of the Pentateuch, we know there were at least four sources from which the editors redacted the current version.

Who is we and where is your source?

 

[StanJ]

Yes, but what is your definition of "proper biblical hermeneutics?"

You'll find it on Theopedia, and it's not my definition.

Hermeneutics is the science of interpreting what an author has written. In Christian theology, hermeneutics focuses specifically on constructing and discovering the appropriate rules for interpreting the Bible. These methods and principles, however, are often drawn from outside of scripture in historical, literary or other fields. It inevitably involves exegesis, which is the act of interpreting or explaining the meaning of scripture. The goal in applying the principles of hermeneutics is to "rightly handle the word of truth" (2 Tim. 2:15), striving to accurately discern the meaning of the text.

 

[StanJ]

They also were subject to polytheistic practices, as the OT points out. Also, Gen. 1 strongly implies a society of personalities. If you are assuming that it is saying the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate, unique personalities, that, as I said before, you are professing polytheism, pure and simple.

Not at all, but given you don't accept the concept of Trinity you'll have to actually refute it, not just deny it.
Length x Width x Height still equates to ONE cube.

 

[Hoghead1]

Not at all, but given you don't accept the concept of Trinity you'll have to actually refute it, not just deny it.
Length x Width x Height still equates to ONE cube.

Do not put words into my mouth or interpret my beliefs for me. I did not say I didn't believe in the Trinity. I said many formulations are very problematic. I also said+ that Genesis 1 is probably not a reference to the Trinity. One personality Father) + one personality )Son) + one personality = 3 personalities, three gods, not o ne. Your formulations and those of others here are very weak, since they lead into polytheism.

 

[StanJ]

Do not put words into my mouth or interpret my beliefs for me. I did not say I didn't believe in the Trinity. I said many formulations are very problematic. I also said+ that Genesis 1 is probably not a reference to the Trinity. One personality Father) + one personality )Son) + one personality = 3 personalities, three gods, not o ne. Your formulations and those of others here are very weak, since they lead into polytheism.

So you just like playing the devil's advocate? Maybe you should simply state what you do believe rather than contradict everybody else?

 

[Hoghead1]

Who is we and where is your source?

Modern biblical studies. I have a doctorate in theology. Before deciding on theology, I thought about doing my doctorate in biblical studies, as I'm good with languages and was encouraged by my graduate professors to seriously consider biblical studies. However, I decided on theology. In graduate programs, you have your choice of doing your doctorate in OT, NT, church history, theology, ethics, other religions. Though I chose theology, I still had to do considerable graduate work in biblical studies.

 

[StanJ]

Modern biblical studies. I have a doctorate in theology. Before deciding on theology, I thought about doing my doctorate in biblical studies, as I'm good with languages and was encouraged by my graduate professors to seriously consider biblical studies. However, I decided on theology. In graduate programs, you have your choice of doing your doctorate in OT, NT, church history, theology, ethics, other religions. Though I chose theology, I still had to do considerable graduate work in biblical studies.

But can you really answer my question. Did you get your degree as a liberal Seminary? What was your dissertation on?

 

[Hoghead1]

So you just like playing the devil's advocate? Maybe you should simply state what you do believe rather than contradict everybody else?

NO I am not playing the Devil's advocate. I am simply pointing one some serious problems with some of the posts on the Trinity. I realize that many follow what is called a social theory of the Trinity, the notion that the Trinity is a harmonious society of three divine personalities. However, that still amounts to polytheism. Just as three men working in harmony are still three men, so three Gods working in harmony are still three Gods.

 

[Hoghead1]

But can you really answer my question. Did you get your degree as a liberal Seminary? What was your dissertation on?

I earned my doctorate via the conjoint program between a major university and a noted PCUSA seminary. I did my dissertation on process pneumatology and, with some revisions, it was published in book form by Susquehanna University Press. I also am the translator of two published volumes of Calvin's sermons, which enabled my to examine his exegetical technique very carefully.

 

[Nym]

Does the bible teach the trinity? Many seem to deny the trinity since the word is not found

I believe it has more to to do with the significance to us of the number three then it does with a trinity; as something relational to us.