Trinity???

[JacksLadder]

We do not claim his "two natures" suffered instead it was the one and same person who suffered- Jesus of Nazareth. Dividing Jesus into categories of human and divine is the crux of the nestorian heresy.

So Jesus=One God= God Suffered. Why are we allowed to divide God but not Jesus?

 

[buzuxi02]

So Jesus=One God= God Suffered. Why are we allowed to divide God but not Jesus?

Not at all, the same principle applies. If you divide Christ you assume he is 2 hypostasis , a human hypostasis and and divine hypostasis, this is the nestorian heresy. Natures are not persons. God on the other hand is three hypostasis, thus the distinction is allowed. The distinction of three hypostasis is not division but one of unity, The two natures of Christ
concur in one hypostasis, thus we say Jesus Christ suffered we dont dissect Christ between natures.

The difference in greek terminology between ousia ( essense or substace), physeis (natures) and hypostasis (persons) is needed to better understand.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

So Jesus=One God= God Suffered. Why are we allowed to divide God but not Jesus?

Jack, what is the meaning of your avatar? I was hoping that you were coming here with honest questions about the faith, but seeing that makes me question your intentions.

 

[choirfiend]

Jews DO refer to their god as father, they call him "Avinu" ("Our Father", and 'abba' comes from the same root).

The prayer "avinu malkeinu," in which the word you reference found its way into the jewish riturals of prayer for Rosh Hashanah, was a prayer offered by Rabbi Akiva, who lived AFTER Christ, 50-135AD. Do you think there could have been some "contamination" from the Christians?

 

[ArmyMatt]

But if Jesus is part of the one God then of course the Father suffered. Did Jesus's divine half not suffer but only his human half durning the passion according to E.O.?

Jesus is not a part of God, He is God. it's not like each of the Three Persons are 1/3 of God. Each of the Three Persons is fully God.

no, His Divine Nature was(is) enthroned on high with the Father and the Spirit. that being said, only the Person of the Son took on humanity, only the Person of the Son was nailed to the Cross, and only the Person of the Son died.

 

[JacksLadder]

Not at all, the same principle applies. If you divide Christ you assume he is 2 hypostasis , a human hypostasis and and divine hypostasis, this is the nestorian heresy. Natures are not persons. God on the other hand is three hypostasis, thus the distinction is allowed. The distinction of three hypostasis is not division but one of unity, The two natures of Christ
concur in one hypostasis, thus we say Jesus Christ suffered we dont dissect Christ between natures.

The difference in greek terminology between ousia ( essense or substace), physeis (natures) and hypostasis (persons) is needed to better understand.

See to me that dose not make sense either God is one God or we have three gods who work together.

I was reading the other day how Islamic scholars refused to speculate on the nature of God so they would not end up in a hersey(trinity is their example of taking speculation too far). That made so much sense to me it was like I was seeing the religion of Arbaham of the One God.

I guess I am just not cut out for Christianity. My experiance tells me that Humanity are God's children , brothers and sisters of Jesus. Thanks for the info on modalism but I have a lot to mull over now.

 

[JacksLadder]

My Icon is about the hidden evil that went on in early Christianity , the councils I have read about seem to have been about bribes and politics. Not about wanting to understand God's will.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Well, please pardon me if I'm overly sensitive, but I find your avatar very offensive. I would have gladly contributed to your threads if not for it.

 

[Machachachi]

See to me that dose not make sense either God is one God or we have three gods who work together.

I was reading the other day how Islamic scholars refused to speculate on the nature of God so they would not end up in a hersey(trinity is their example of taking speculation too far). That made so much sense to me it was like I was seeing the religion of Arbaham of the One God.

I guess I am just not cut out for Christianity. My experiance tells me that Humanity are God's children , brothers and sisters of Jesus. Thanks for the info on modalism but I have a lot to mull over now.

I will dare to say you wouldn't be here at all if you didn't want to trouble with Christianity. But if I can I will say something else as well. God does not play by human rules. Has God not said, that he defeats the reasoning of the wise? Certainly he is above man's understanding. That does not mean though, that He is above our experience.

In fact Jesus, is God himself reaching down from eternity into this world, and doing something unchangeable. Did not the prophets look forward and see him? They did! His coming was foretold. How can his coming be foretold, unless God knows what will happen? The point being, God is outside of time. There was no moment in God's life where he had not created us, He is all of His person, always.

Just as the Body, and Mind are separate but still the same entity so is God. My body can be broken, and my Mind certainly knows the pain, but my Mind is not broken, my mind does not need to be healed. This analogy only goes so far I understand.

God exists in paradox. He is above our ways to understand, and so we can only describe God in how he has revealed himself to the world. How has he revealed himself? As God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

For whatever reason, you are here, trying to ask questions, which are very pointed, I don't necessarily know your intentions, but whatever they are, I hope when you ask these questions you are actually listening to the answers, instead of waiting to jump to your next "problem."

God was patient with me, and if you are really searching for Him, I have no doubt you will find Him.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My experiance tells me that Humanity are God's children , brothers and sisters of Jesus

we are all God's children, Jesus by Nature and the rest of us by adoption.

 

[JacksLadder]

Well, please pardon me if I'm overly sensitive, but I find your avatar very offensive. I would have gladly contributed to your threads if not for it.

It's a Icon of Nestorius, why get upset about defacing a heretical Icon?

 

[JacksLadder]

I will dare to say you wouldn't be here at all if you didn't want to trouble with Christianity. But if I can I will say something else as well. God does not play by human rules. Has God not said, that he defeats the reasoning of the wise? Certainly he is above man's understanding. That does not mean though, that He is above our experience.

In fact Jesus, is God himself reaching down from eternity into this world, and doing something unchangeable. Did not the prophets look forward and see him? They did! His coming was foretold. How can his coming be foretold, unless God knows what will happen? The point being, God is outside of time. There was no moment in God's life where he had not created us, He is all of His person, always.

Just as the Body, and Mind are separate but still the same entity so is God. My body can be broken, and my Mind certainly knows the pain, but my Mind is not broken, my mind does not need to be healed. This analogy only goes so far I understand.

God exists in paradox. He is above our ways to understand, and so we can only describe God in how he has revealed himself to the world. How has he revealed himself? As God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

For whatever reason, you are here, trying to ask questions, which are very pointed, I don't necessarily know your intentions, but whatever they are, I hope when you ask these questions you are actually listening to the answers, instead of waiting to jump to your next "problem."

God was patient with me, and if you are really searching for Him, I have no doubt you will find Him.

I just am really caught up in the one God concept. How Abraham went from a Pantheon to one God. Just I have a lot of pride being monotheistic and it upsets me that Modalism (which I did not even know was a hersey till I went to an E.O. mission) is not allowed because it was the only way I could view God as a trinity and be a monotheist. I have been stuggling with my firm belief God is one and the seperated trinity which to me just seems wrong.
If I can't reconcile the basics how am I suppose to go any further and attend church again?

 

[SeraphimSarov]

It's a Icon of Nestorius, why get upset about defacing a heretical Icon?

Nevermind...

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

I just am really caught up in the one God concept. How Abraham went from a Pantheon to one God. Just I have a lot of pride being monotheistic and it upsets me that Modalism (which I did not even know was a hersey till I went to an E.O. mission) is not allowed because it was the only way I could view God as a trinity and be a monotheist. I have been stuggling with my firm belief God is one and the seperated trinity which to me just seems wrong.
If I can't reconcile the basics how am I suppose to go any further and attend church again?

It sounds to me like you are trying to mold Christianity to your requirements, when it's supposed to be the other way around.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and I think you are forgetting one of the basic things about God, that He is a mystery. do you not understand how the Trinity works? good, because you shouldn't. CS Lewis once wrote that if God were small enough for our minds, then He wouldn't be big enough for our needs.

go out sometime on a clear night and look at all the stars. looking at the vastness of space, can you honestly look at that and tell me that the God Who created all of that and sustains it can fit into one person's finite mind? the answer should be an obvious no.

 

[Orchids]

Genesis 18:2
So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,


Genesis 18:22
Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD.

Genesis 19:1
Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.


Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.

Three men, one was the LORD, and stayed with Abraham, and then departed. The other two went to Sodom, and when, "the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens."

In a Bible study I was in, it was pointed out these men, or angels, from heaven, was the Trinity and came to earth to see what had been going on in Sodom and Gomorrah. One returns to heaven, and the other two go on to visit Sodom and Gomorrah, and, "Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens." Either way, two LORDs are mentioned here, at least.

Something to think about. The blue book of The Orthodox Faith of the Rainbow set teaches about the Trinity in the best way I have ever read and understood. Anything beyond these teachings are the mystery. Because this is all that is revealed to us.

 

[Eutropius]

I just am really caught up in the one God concept. How Abraham went from a Pantheon to one God. Just I have a lot of pride being monotheistic and it upsets me that Modalism (which I did not even know was a hersey till I went to an E.O. mission) is not allowed because it was the only way I could view God as a trinity and be a monotheist. I have been stuggling with my firm belief God is one and the seperated trinity which to me just seems wrong.
If I can't reconcile the basics how am I suppose to go any further and attend church again?

In your confusion you have a stumbling block. This argument reminds me of those who are Muslim, and I've met a number of them. When you think of "one God" and that could only be "one Person," you do a disservice to the Holy Spirit, and to Jesus Christ, the Holy Son of God. I will pray for you to come to some understanding that the Orthodox faith is the only true faith, and all others are (at most) a poor mimicking of it. You really do need to speak to your priest, if you have one.

 

[choirfiend]

The LORD said to my LORD, "Sit Thou at my right hand"

Again, a listing of two lords? Or one God in three Persons?

 

[JacksLadder]

It sounds to me like you are trying to mold Christianity to your requirements, when it's supposed to be the other way around.

I want to believe in Christianity because I fully believe everything. It would be false of me to mold myself to what others already believe because then I could just as easily submit to the Quran if I did not want to question my beliefs, you get what I mean right?

 

[JacksLadder]

The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent "I AM," the Creator of heaven and earth and the Redeemer of mankind. He has further revealed Himself as embodying the principles of relationship and association as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

What about this statement?