Trinity theology

[pantingdeer]

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[Maria Billingsley]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

This is the testimony. God is a Spirit Jesus Christ of Nazareth was a person, God in the flesh. John continues to explain the Testament from above.
John 3
John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent before Him.’ 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease. 31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[IoanC]

I believe it is secondary. Only God knows about God. What we have now from God is enough. God will add things gradually. We don't need to struggle ourselves towards knowledge.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I believe it is secondary. Only God knows about God. What we have now from God is enough. God will add things gradually. We don't need to struggle ourselves towards knowledge.

Believing that God came in the flesh is pretty essential.
Blessings.

 

[pantingdeer]

Believing that God came in the flesh is pretty essential.
Blessings.

Both positions hold that view.

 

[Erose]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

Because they are not the same Person. They are the same God, but not the same Person. That is Trinity. One God, yet three Persons who are God.

 

[Clare73]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

It's not just one person, Trinity means three.

God is three persons in one being, God.

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

Making God one person would be a primary issue, for Trinity means three persons.

 

[Emun]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

The Trinity states that there are three persons in one substance. Three persons with the same divine nature.

The Father is the planner, the Son is the one who carries out the plan in the power of the Holy Spirit. That is why the Bible says that the world was created by the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit.

Isaiah 63:11-12 mentions all three persons. The Father who is in heaven, the arm of the Lord who is Jesus and led Israel in the wilderness as the angel of the Lord, and the Holy Spirit who was in their midst. From this you can see: God above us (Father), God with us (Son) and God in us (Holy Spirit).

 

[The Liturgist]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

Faith in the Holy Trinity is absolutely a matter of the most primary importance for Traditional Christians, because Traditional Christianity is, more than anything else, a completely Trinitarian Christianity.

 

[fhansen]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

There's a reason why His "only begotten Son" is His express image (Heb 1:3). It's because Jesus is God incarnate, the God-man, which is why when you've seen Him you've seen the Father (John 14:9).

 

[The Liturgist]

There's a reason why His "only begotten Son" is His express image (Heb 1:3). It's because Jesus is God incarnate, the God-man, which is why when you've seen Him you've seen the Father (John 14:9).

Indeed so. I particularly like the Greek for God-man, Theanthropos.

 

[linux.poet]

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[ViaCrucis]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

It's a primary matter. Sabellianism/Modalism turns the Incarnation into puppet theater.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Liturgist]

He could, at any time, have picked up His glory and power again. But He chose to remain human through complete separation from the Father to secure our pardon from sin.

That’s actually per se Nestorianism. The humanity and divinity of our Lord existed and continue to exist in or from two natures* without change, confusion, division or separation.

*The Chalcedonian definition is that our Lord exists in two natures, a human nature and divine nature, whereas the definition of St. Cyril of Alexandria and his Oriental Orthodox successors is that our Lord exists from two natures, in one human and divine nature, but both the Chalcedonians and Oriental Orthodox acknowledge that these natures are united in one hypostasis without change, confusion, division or separation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why would God say “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased?” if they are the same person?

Is it a primary/secondary issue one’s stance on this matter?

In general, outside of the Trinity dynamic - the person - to person dynamic changes also.

For example: I am not you, and you are not me, but each of us are part of the whole.

In the same way Jesus is not the Father, and the Father is not Jesus, but each essence is equally God. Parallel thought, God is one.

Since humans are made in God's image, a perception that Jesus and the Father are the same essence or person .. can result in diluting the protection that people are born with by default. When this happens, it's like you're everyone .. but nobody at the same time. In this state of being, the soul is quantified and then turned into a form of currency that is used as a power source. In summary, modalism leads to sorcery when applied as a mysticism.

The main reason the Trinity is important from a human dynamic, is so we retain our individuality, and what makes us human.

The main reason the Trinity is important from a spiritual perspective is related to salvation .. and all that Jazz. Magic can't save a person, but the Holy Spirit can.

 

[Erose]

View attachment 328465

In general, outside of the Trinity dynamic - the person - to person dynamic changes also.

For example: I am not you, and you are not me, but each of us are part of the whole.

In the same way Jesus is not the Father, and the Father is not Jesus, but each essence is equally God. Parallel thought, God is one.

Since humans are made in God's image, a perception that Jesus and the Father are the same essence or person .. can result in diluting the protection that people are born with by default. When this happens, it's like you're everyone .. but nobody at the same time. In this state of being, the soul is quantified and then turned into a form of currency that is used as a power source. In summary, modalism leads to sorcery when applied as a mysticism.

The main reason the Trinity is important from a human dynamic, is so we retain our individuality, and what makes us human.

The main reason the Trinity is important from a spiritual perspective is related to salvation .. and all that Jazz. Magic can't save a person, but the Holy Spirit can.

One thing that needs to also be emphasized in the above diagrams, is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, but are each fully God in Himself. So the comparison, like all others, breaks down when taken to its conclusion.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

One thing that needs to also be emphasized in the above diagrams, is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not parts of God, but are each fully God in Himself. So the comparison, like all others, breaks down when taken to its conclusion.

(Edit: the trinity diagram actually does state each of the three persons "is" God, that's pretty explicit)
That makes sense, the diagrams are more to illustrate how the trinity affects dynamics of human relations especially when the alternate spirituality is acted upon.

Also,

Since it needs to be said to us "be one like God is one" it stands to reason any parable will break down eventually .. because we are not one like God is one .. but it would be nice if we were.

However,

If there were a group of people who could emulate John 17:21 .. then it would be quite the parable .. perhaps this is why Jesus said "so the whole world would know"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So another thought came to me, could this formula be applied in a way that brings the church back together?

an interesting one.

 

[dzheremi]

The complete separation from the Father occurred at the cross.

If Christ is God just as surely while on the cross as at any other time (and He definitely is), then how can there be such a "complete separation" there? I don't want to speak for the Chalcedonians here, since I'm not one, but unless they have been lying to us in our interactions with them since the time of the Henotikon forward, I don't think that this is acceptable within their Christology, either.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The complete separation from the Father occurred at the cross. That was the reason for His extreme anxiety in Gethsemane the night before His death.

That is absolutely false. The Son is one with the Father, He cannot be separated from His Father, He is God from the Father, God from God. This is a deep misunderstanding of our Lord's quoting of the Psalm, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" He was not separated from the Father, He cannot be separated from the Father--He is in the Father even as the Father is in Him. Very God from very God.

There was no division in Christ. His nature as Divine and Human existed at the same time during His life on Earth. But He emptied Himself of His power (not authority).

He remains, forever, True God and true man. And He never emptied Himself of His Divine power or authority. Rather He emptied Himself of dignity and glory, by becoming a slave, lower than the angels, a man and a slave to sinners, in obedience to the Father out of His great love and humility.

The kenosis is not a divestment of the Lord's Divinity, His Divine power, His Divine authority (etc) or anything like that. The kenosis is the self-humiliation of God the Son to come and become weak, frail, mortal, and to suffer and die for wretched sinners like you and me. His emptying was that, though God He did not exploit it. Instead was a servant, acted as a servant, laid down His life. "For the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many."

This is the Humility of God. Our God is humble and lowly, for He gives Himself away in love, throws Himself away in love. God, the Maker of all things, calls us friends. And He lays down His mortal life for us, sinners whom He calls friends out of His incomprehensibly deep and abundant love and grace.

Today He Who Hung the Earth Upon the Waters is Hung on the Tree

"Today He who hung the earth upon the waters is hung on the tree,
The King of the angels is decked with a crown of thorns.
He who wraps the heavens in clouds is wrapped in the purple of mockery.
He who freed Adam in the Jordan is slapped on the face.
The Bridegroom of the Church is affixed to the Cross with nails.
The Son of the virgin is pierced by a spear.
We worship Thy passion, O Christ.
We worship Thy passion, O Christ.
We worship Thy passion, O Christ.
Show us also Thy glorious resurrection."

-CryptoLutheran