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Trinity or Monotheism

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Albion

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If the concept cannot be argued there
It certainly can be argued--the concept that is, not whether or not the word "Trinity" appears in Scripture.

then what tool do you recommend we use?
I have already explained this. The Bible describes God as One but uses a plural word for that God and also refers to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost with personal pronouns. It is impossible, therefore, that the three are merely one person doing different jobs at different times or one person with several different characteristics.
 
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Viren

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Because Trinitarianism is orthodox. Anything else is not orthodox.

For the same reason that it is unorthodox--heretical--to teach that the Father and the Son are two separate gods (Arianism). Or to teach some form of tritheism.

It is heretical to deny that there is an actuality in the Hypostases of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son, the Father is Father of the Son. When Jesus prayed to the Father, He wasn't praying to Himself.

-CryptoLutheran

Jesus is the lamp that allows the glory of God to shine through.
 
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Judean

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I've done some more research on this topic and I now know that Trinity is total monotheism.
I just have one logical problem with it and that is:
How can a Being who is totally incorporeal be made out of parts? wouldn't trinity imply a corporeal god?
Some might argue that corporeality isn't a problem, if that's the case then all is right.
The basic accepted Jewish theology is that God doesn't in any way posses form, but since I'm not familiar with Christian theology maybe it's different?
 
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ViaCrucis

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I've done some more research on this topic and I now know that Trinity is total monotheism.
I just have one logical problem with it and that is:
How can a Being who is totally incorporeal be made out of parts? wouldn't trinity imply a corporeal god?

We don't believe God is made out of parts. The Hypostases (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are not "parts" of God. God is not divided.

Think of it a different way:

There is God, the Father. The Father is the one and only God. He is often called the "Fount of Divinity" and similar language. Outside of time, without beginning, He begets the Son. That is why we say the Son is "only-begotten". The Son is not "other than" the Father, but is what the Father is, namely, the Son is Himself God, the one and only God. Father and Son are not two beings, or two parts of a being, but the Same Being.

We have a word for this, homoousious, homo (same) ousia (substance, essence, nature, being). Father and Son are same-substance, same-being. That which the Father, is, the Son is also. Because the Son does not arise outside of the Father, but from within the Father.

We then speak of the Holy Spirit as "proceeding", Eastern Christians will say the Spirit proceeds from the Father only, Western Christians will say the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. This is a very old debate and would take too much time to get into here. But the point is that because the Spirit proceeds from the Father [and the Son] eternally, the Spirit too is one and the same God, not a separate god, not a separate being, but is one-and-the-same being as Father and Son.

Thus we say the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, but not three gods, but one God. Not three beings, but one Being. Not three substances, but one Substance. One Lord, one Creator, one Almighty, etc.

So we do not have "parts", but "hypostases". A word in Greek meaning (hypo = "under", stasis "to be firm, to stand"), in effect a fundamental reality of the thing. Thus we mean that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not "confused things", but are distinct insofar as Father is Father, the Son is Son, and the Spirit is the Spirit. And yet the Ousia, the Substance, the Essence, the "Thing-ness" is one, it is the Same for Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So we speak of the One-and-Three.

One because the Ousia is unitary, one, undivided, indivisible, inseparable.

Three because there are three Hypostases, that of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Some might argue that corporeality isn't a problem, if that's the case then all is right.
The basic accepted Jewish theology is that God doesn't in any way posses form, but since I'm not familiar with Christian theology maybe it's different?

Christian theology denies that God has any form. The Divine Essence is invisible, unknowable, and infinite.

There is an obscure ancient heresy known as Audianism, Audianism taught that God was corporeal and had form. This was rejected as heresy, and has been regarded as heresy ever since.

The Second Council of Nicea which took place in the year 787 met because of the Iconoclast Controversy. The Iconoclasts were those, likely influenced by Islam, who argued that Christians should not make images, especially images of Christ. The Iconoclasts argued that on the basis of the First Commandment all images of Christ and the Saints were idolatry.

The Second Council of Nicea met, and hammered out the official Christian position against the Iconoclasts. They argued that because the Saints were men, they could be depicted in images, and that because Christ, though God, was also man and came as a man and had physical form He could also be depicted. But that it was forbidden to depict God in His Essence with any form, and thus icons depicting God the Father or God the Holy Spirit were considered illicit.

So while the Council argued that images--icons--were not only acceptable but good, restrictions were put in place in order to not violate the Christian teaching that God's Essence is invisible, formless, unknowable (etc).

So if you see in Christian art depictions of God the Father (which do exist in plenty) these are actually in violation of the Seventh Ecumenical Council (the last council regarded as accepted by all Christians East and West).

But we permit depictions of Christ because Christ was (and is) true man, truly human, with form, with a body of flesh. He was born, He grew, He suffered, He died, He rose again, He ascended, and He is coming again.

That which has form can be depicted.
That which has no form cannot be depicted.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Albion

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I've done some more research on this topic and I now know that Trinity is total monotheism.
I just have one logical problem with it and that is:
How can a Being who is totally incorporeal be made out of parts? wouldn't trinity imply a corporeal god?
I don't think that God does have "parts," and I have no idea why anyone would think that God must be a "corporeal" god.

The basic accepted Jewish theology is that God doesn't in any way posses form, but since I'm not familiar with Christian theology maybe it's different?

Yet Moses SAW God and talked with him.
 
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FreeinChrist

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This thread is closed for review.

This area is not a debate forum. It is not okay to debate against Trinitarian beliefs in this forum. The ONLY place that can be done is in Unorthodox Doctrinal Decussions and that is for Christians only.

The ONLY non-Trintarian or non-christian who can post in this thread is the OP.
 
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