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Trinity and Protestantism

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lesliedellow

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However, there are reasons to argue that there was no Christianity before the time of Constantine.

Then why do we have Plinythe Younger writing to Trajan, asking about how he should deal with the Christians?
 
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lesliedellow

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Tell me who was in the possession of the alleged letter of Pliny the Younger, hmm??
A monastery?

Oh, for heaven’s sake. Tacitus had heard of Christians. Seutonius had heard of Christians, Josephus had heard of Christians, there are countless Christian texts dating from the second century. The earliest surviving fragment of the New Testament dates from ca. 130. According to you Christians such as Eusebius, Iraenius, Ignatius, Melito of Sardis, all never existed according to you. Their works were all produced by some mysterious, unknown forger.

I have heard of some nutty conspiracy theories in my time, but even the Jesus-mythicists seem to have a firmer grip on reality than you.
 
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Duvduv

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Excuse me, but what makes it a conspiracy theory to point oyo that only the Church possessed the documents that are used to suggest the older dating of Christianity?? It's a fact. It's also a fact that forgeries were made, such as the Pseudo-Isidoran Decritals.
 
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lesliedellow

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That fragment of John, which has been dated to ca. 130? It was discovered in 1920 by an archaeologist from Oxford University in the Uk.
 
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Duvduv

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What you forget is that dating scraps has problems. First, it isn't claimed that the fragment is from thr first century for certain. Second, it's necessary to test the parchment because in ancient times they reused parchment. Third, because the ink itself needs testing. Therefore, making absolute claims about such tiny fragments is practically useless.
 
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lesliedellow

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Now is that a fact? Well since you are seemingly the only "expert" to have dated it to sometime after 337, maybe you should submit your amazing discovery to a peer reviewed journal.

By the way, have you ever heard of the phrase "special pleading"?
 
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Duvduv

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There is no mystery that tiny scraps can't be examined properly. The scholars know this. They just accept unprovable speculation as the "gospel truth."
This has also been a source of controversy about fragments found in Yemen claimed to be the earliest copies of the Quran.
 
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lesliedellow

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Like I said, submit your ideas to a peer reviewed journal, and see how far they get. You could always try the "Journal of Archaeological Research". Or are you about as anxious to do that as creationists are to submit their ideas to a journal like "Nature"?

I think I have wasted enough time on somebody who thinks none of the world's archaeologists or historians have a clue what they are doing.
 
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lesliedellow

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You are really generalizing and ignoringmy point. It's not my fault if the unnamed experts make assumptions based on insufficient data according to church dogma.

Find me a historian on the face of the globe who thinks that Christianity didn't originate in the first century. Go on, just one. Jewish scholars like Geza Vermes, Paula Fredriksen or Shlomo Pines will be of no use to you, because they have got a brain between their ears.
 
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Duvduv

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Actually it's the other way around. They have to account for the the problems of assessinv scraps and for thr lack of corroborative evidence for a first century Christianity outside of what was in the possession of the Church and in its canon.
 
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AvgJoe

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The following chart will help show how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture.
 
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redleghunter

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Can't speak for the ignorance of mankind but YHWH clearly knew the Trinity before the foundations of the earth.

You may also want to actually read the NT before starting threads like this too. Because there is ample evidence of the Deity of the Son of God. Once one gets their mind over that hurdle understanding there is One True God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit is not difficult.
 
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redleghunter

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The word itself is unbiblical, but one can draw inferences from certain passages in the Epistles and Gospel of John to argue for it.
Any discussion or debate on the Trinity starts and ends with first the Deity of Jesus Christ.
 
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redleghunter

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The question remains why none of the Protestant scholars ever questioned it.
Because not only is the Trinity creedal but also Biblical.



Of course, if Christianity emerged only in the 4th century
No actually it was in 33 AD in an upper room during Pentecost.
 
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Philip_B

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