Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

[THIS]

It is speaking of His incarnate one who in the fullness of time came and dwelt in the body prepared Him. The union is called the incarnation!

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

You were already given many scriptures that SHOW that Jesus existed with God in heaven before coming to earth.

You are trying to nullify ALL those scriptures with one scripture you do not understand.

That scripture you posted does NOT mean Jesus did not exist with God in heaven before coming to earth.

 

[Gibs]

Jesus is God come to us in the flesh as the Son of Man.

Is God your Redeemer?

Psalm 78:35 They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.

Isaiah 48:17
This is what the LORD says-- your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go.

Isaiah 54:8
In a surge of anger I hid my face from you for a moment, but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you," says the LORD your Redeemer.

Is Jesus the Redeemer?

Luke 1:68
“Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel, because he has come to his people and redeemed them.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

God is our husband

Isaiah 54:5 For your Maker is your husband-- the LORD Almighty is his name-- the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.

Jeremiah 3:14
"Return, faithless people," declares the LORD, "for I am your husband. I will choose you--one from a town and two from a clan--and bring you to Zion.

Hosea 2:16
"In that day," declares the LORD, "you will call me 'my husband'; you will no longer call me 'my master.'

Christ our husband

2 Corinthians 11:2
I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.

Psalm 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?

God is the Rock

Psalm 18:2 They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.

Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

Psalm 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!

Psalm 19:14
May these words of my mouth and this meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 31:2
Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.

Psalm 31:3
Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.

Psalm 42:9
I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"

Jesus is the rock

Romans 9:33
As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

1 Peter 2:8
and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.


Jesus is God come in the flesh. They are ONE AND THE SAME.

In answer to a quip of yours in another post,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And to answer one in this one,
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

 

[THIS]

In answer to a quip of yours in another post,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And to answer one in this one,
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

You have no idea what those scriptures mean.

That is Jesus speaking in the Old Testament. Jesus is God.

 

[THIS]

Gibs proves once again that he thinks he can just post a scripture or two and nullify many scriptures.

If he thinks that I am explaining scriptures wrong, then he needs to address the scriptures I posted.

 

[Gibs]

You have no idea what those scriptures mean.

That is Jesus speaking in the Old Testament. Jesus is God.

I know you think I was born yesterday but I have learned a wee bit in the 82 plus yrs. I've been around.

 

[THIS]

I know you think I was born yesterday but I have learned a wee bit in the 82 plus yrs. I've been around.

You have not shown that here.

Do you think age guarantees knowledge of God's Truth?

 

[Gibs]

You have not shown that here.

Do you think age guarantees knowledge of God's Truth?

You are free by me to have your opinion. Well I continue to learn so I find age then will add to knowledge of God's Word.

 

[CherubRam]

Jesus is God. Jesus is the Father. Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and the Holy Spirit; and that is what I call him.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Show us the scriptures where Christ says he is the Father or Holy Spirit?

 

[THIS]

Show us the scriptures where Christ says he is the Father or Holy Spirit?

You posted right below it.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[THIS]

Show us the scriptures where Christ says he is the Father or Holy Spirit?

I will give you even more scriptures that tell us Jesus is the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.

 

[Gibs]

Then tell us why Jesus said this,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is certain from that explanation that Jesus did not see Himself as God!!

Yes scripture does state He was to be called Father and etc., and could be as the Father dwelt in Him FULLY!

Lu 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Really there is no mystery once it is seen right, then the scriptures don't deny another.

 

[CherubRam]

I will give you even more scriptures that tell us Jesus is the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.

I like how you put corn in that bundle for texture.

 

[CherubRam]

You posted right below it.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run the Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”

 

[Der Alte]

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run the Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”

I addressed this post before.

Online translators are not very accurate and they only translate modern Hebrew. As with English, Hebrew has changed in the last 2000 years.

Here is a translation by native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars in the Targum dating to 200-700 BC.

Isaiah 9:6 His name is called from eternity, Wonderful, The Mighty God, who liveth to eternity, Wonderful, The Messiah, whose peace shall be great upon us in His days.
7. The greatness of those who do the law shall be magnified, and those, that preserve peace. There shall be no end to the throne of David, and of his kingdom, to establish it and to build it in judgment and in righteousness from henceforth, even for ever. By the Word of the Lord of hosts this shall be done.

The Chaldee Paraprase The Prophet Isaiah, Translated By Rev. C. W. H. Pauli, London Society's House, 1871​

 

[THIS]

Then tell us why Jesus said this,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is certain from that explanation that Jesus did not see Himself as God!!

Because Jesus is God come as a MAN.

A man is lesser.

However, God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name.

See Philippians 2:9.

Yes scripture does state He was to be called Father and etc., and could be as the Father dwelt in Him FULLY!

Really there is no mystery once it is seen right, then the scriptures don't deny another.

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and the Holy Spirit. That is what I call him.

 

[THIS]

I like how you put corn in that bundle for texture.

Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.

 

[THIS]

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run the Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”

The Lord rebuke you for changing God's Word.

In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?

 

[CherubRam]

 

[Gibs]

The Lord rebuke you for changing God's Word.

In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?

Sure, This, Jesus could rightly state, I am the first and last, as it is made clear that The Father came and dwelt in Him in ALL fullness. He truly was God the Father with us in a body of flesh. He was the body prepared for that!

 

[Gibs]

Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.

Certainly, Jesus can be called The Spirit, as The Father dwells in Him in ALL fullness.

Paul cinches this is true as when ALL things are under His feet, then our Father may be ALL IN ALL, yes finally!

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL

Our Father has no more need for all eternity of extending Himself for a Redeemer,

Na 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.