Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

Gibs said:

Yes of course Philip should have see the Father in Jesus as the Father came and dwelt in Him Bodily!

Yes Jesus had the power of God, as a matter of fact He is to reign supremely until all things are under His feet.
At times He spoke as a man that He was and at times as God as God was in Him fully bodily. He was God the Father dwelling in a body of Flesh.

Ga 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

He was a born entity and the Father is not! But Yes the Father came and dwelt in Him fully!

Now I want to ask you, was it God that over came Satan or was it Jesus Christ the man.

If you say God, then why this thing of God bearing a son made of a woman which is one of us, a man child.

Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

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Jesus IS God in the flesh.

THIS said:

Jesus IS God in the flesh.

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Yes for sure, God the Father came and dwelt in Him FULLY and so was truly God the Father with us in Christ's Body. When it is all completed and Jesus has it all under His feet Paul cinches it for us that Then and ONLY then the Father becomes ALL IN ALL AGAIN!

These verses are profound when His Spirit of Truth opens our understanding,

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, TILL he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Gibs said:

Yes for sure, God the Father came and dwelt in Him FULLY and so was truly God the Father with us in Christ's Body. When it is all completed and Jesus has it all under His feet Paul cinches it for us that Then and ONLY then the Father becomes ALL IN ALL AGAIN!

These verses are profound when His Spirit of Truth opens our understanding,

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, TILL he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

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[FONT=&quot]You seem to be forgetting that Jesus the Man came from heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You seem to be forgetting that everything was made through Jesus, for Jesus, and by Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is no mere man.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Those scriptures you posted tell us that we will be like Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I asked you if Jesus HIMSELF was living inside you. After much time waiting for your answer, you said yes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please listen carefully. There are three, and the three are ONE. There is ONE SPIRIT, and that one Spirit is the Spirit of God, and the same Spirit that is Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. When we are given the Holy Spirit, we are given the Father to live inside us, and Jesus Christ. We have the FATHER and the SON living inside us, but only ONE SPIRIT. That is because they are THE SAME.[/FONT]

THIS said:

[FONT=&quot]You seem to be forgetting that Jesus the Man came from heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You seem to be forgetting that everything was made through Jesus, for Jesus, and by Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is no mere man.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Those scriptures you posted tell us that we will be like Jesus. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I asked you if Jesus HIMSELF was living inside you. After much time waiting for your answer, you said yes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please listen carefully. There are three, and the three are ONE. There is ONE SPIRIT, and that one Spirit is the Spirit of God, and the same Spirit that is Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. When we are given the Holy Spirit, we are given the Father to live inside us, and Jesus Christ. We have the FATHER and the SON living inside us, but only ONE SPIRIT. That is because they are THE SAME.[/FONT]

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Yes Jesus is a man and I've posted it before, Jesus the man did not come from Heaven, He came from Mary and was conceived in her by God and that was around 4,000 yrs. after the fall.

Paul's testimony cinches it that the Father's vestment in Him will not always be.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

Re 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

A man is an entity born of Woman and it was by the zeal of Yahweh of Hosts who came and performed the Union of Himself, God in Jesus.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Lord of Hosts is the extension of the Father Himself and so is a gift of Himself for His and our Redeemer. Yes He not only gave of Himself but He also gave to us His one and only Beloved begotten Son.

Note who is our Saviour,

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.

He performed this by coming in union with His one and only Beloved Begotten Son!

Gibs said:

Yes Jesus is a man and I've posted it before, Jesus the man did not come from Heaven, He came from Mary and was conceived in her by God and that was around 4,000 yrs. after the fall.

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Mary was found pregnant through the Holy Spirit. See Matthew 1:18 NET.

Jesus, born holy will be called the Son of God. See Luke 1:35.

From the scriptures, I see that Jesus’ Father was the Holy Spirit, whom is God. Jesus’ flesh itself was holy.

When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. See 1:41.

Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit. See Mark 1:8.

From the scriptures, I see that Jesus from the womb was God, and as such the Son of God, already giving the Holy Spirit, as seen from the fact that John the baptizer was filled with the Holy Spirit when Jesus came near him while he was yet in his mother Elizabeth’s womb.
When Jesus was born, he was the Savior that had been born; he is the Messiah, the Lord. See Luke 2:11.

Regarding God's Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David. See Romans 1:3.
The holiness of His Spirit was decisively proved by His Resurrection to be the Son of God. See Romans 1:4 Weymouth.

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38.

From these scriptures, I see that Jesus himself as the Son of MAN came from heaven, and not just as a man speaking God’s word through the Holy Spirit. The scriptures say JESUS came from heaven, not just the Spirit.

Jesus FLESH is the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is Jesus' flesh. See John 6:51.

To obey Jesus is to eat his flesh, which is the bread, which is the word of God. Jesus' flesh is God's word, as well as what Jesus said and did. Therefore, Jesus’ flesh is also from heaven. He is the Son of Man from heaven.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. See John 1:14.

Again, from the scriptures I see that all of Jesus is from heaven, his Spirit, and his flesh.

John 6.56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever

Here Jesus says his flesh is bread and that we should eat that bread, which is flesh. It is also saying that Jesus flesh, which is bread came down from heaven.

john 6.. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

so now we got that Jesus flesh is bread that came down from heaven and that bread/flesh is the son of man and the son of man, aka, bread aka flesh is ascending where he , the bread/flesh was before.

So if making sense out of scripture is one's goal, then the question arises as to whether these scriptures are literal or figurative.

And God looks favorably on making sense.

(KJV) Nehemiah 8:8 8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

Jesus IMO was and is the Word of God , God spoke his Word and created all things by it .. God is omnipresent through out his whole creation and all the supernatural existence .. When God spoke , let there be light , the whole of his creation lit up ..
At the appointed time as per promise and ancient prophecy , this Word would become flesh (a man ) Immanuel ...
Accomplished by a fleshly virgin mother overshadowed by and found to be with child through the power of the Holy Spirit , sinless and free from a fleshly father whose sin filled blood of Adam did not corrupt (like all of us others are)
... This man Jesus conceived of the Power of the Holy Spirit was tempted in all ways like every other man in the flesh but sin was not found in Him , from birth onward he learned and loved what was right according to God and loved the Holy Scripture .. So Jesus was of his omniscient Father God through the work of God the Holy Spirit who at times will withdraw from those when sin is present..
When Jesus was baptized by John in the river Jordan He was already God in the flesh but also a sinless man filled with the knowledge of his Father .. The Holy Spirit descended on Jesus and dwelt perfectly within our lord Jesus .... from that point he was led to the desert to be tempted of the devil where he won the victory .. At this time he also began to perform miracles in the anointing of God and perfect teaching of the things of God through prayer and hearing perfectly from His Father in heaven .. Jesus was obedient to death .. We killed Jesus , when he associated with us to his Father while on the cross he took our sin upon Himself .. He became our sin and for the first time God had to withdraw his presence from Him who became our sin ... The most horrible state of all especially to a sinless Lamb of God .. Our Lord suffered death because of us .. But after three days , Our lord was judged by God the Father , NOT GUILTY and death and hell could not hold Him .. He resurrected with all power and authority .. Now we believe on His name and agree to repentance .. He saved us then set us free , With that freedom you either except His gift or reject it .. Since then we can be born again of the Holy Spirit and share in Jesus inheritance as adopted sons of God .. He even lets us share in ministry the works that Jesus did ... God The Father the Son the Holy Spirit

Gibs said:

Paul's testimony cinches it that the Father's vestment in Him will not always be.

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We will all be like Jesus. How do you get that the Father’s vestment in Jesus will not always be?

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

1 Corinthians 15:49
And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

2 Corinthians 3:18
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

1 John 3:2
Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

2ducklow said:

John 6.56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever

Here Jesus says his flesh is bread and that we should eat that bread, which is flesh. It is also saying that Jesus flesh, which is bread came down from heaven.

john 6.. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

so now we got that Jesus flesh is bread that came down from heaven and that bread/flesh is the son of man and the son of man, aka, bread aka flesh is ascending where he , the bread/flesh was before.

So if making sense out of scripture is one's goal, then the question arises as to whether these scriptures are literal or figurative.

And God looks favorably on making sense.

(KJV) Nehemiah 8:8 8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

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The scriptures are clear---all of Jesus is FROM HEAVEN. Jesus' flesh is from heaven, and his Spirit.

Jesus is God in the flesh come as a Son of Man.

Jesus is a man child as a baby conceived in Mary by God.

At conception God, the Zeal of the Lord of Hosts came and dwelt in Him.

Now when all is finally taken care of, of this sin Problem the vested Deity in Him is returned to the Father.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

Gibs said:

Jesus is a man child as a baby conceived in Mary by God.

At conception God, the Zeal of the Lord of Hosts came and dwelt in Him.

Now when all is finally taken care of, of this sin Problem the vested Deity in Him is returned to the Father.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him,THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

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You are badly mistaken. You have been shown the scriptures that tell us Jesus the Man came from heaven.

THIS said:

You are badly mistaken. You have been shown the scriptures that tell us Jesus the Man came from heaven.

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Jesus the man was not until born of Mary a man child. The pre-incarnate in Him only came from Heaven and Lord of Hosts performed it.

Gibs said:

Jesus the man was not until born of Mary a man child. The pre-incarnate in Him only came from Heaven and Lord of Hosts performed it.

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I say what the scriptures say. You deny the truth.

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38.

I have given scripture that tells us the Man Jesus came from heaven.

I gave scripture that shows Jesus' flesh is Holy.

I gave scripture that shows Jesus spoke God's Word, and that Jesus did what God does, and that his flesh IS THE WORD OF GOD THAT CAME FROM HEAVEN.


All things were made through Jesus, for Jesus, and by Jesus, see 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Colossians 1:16.

THIS said:

I say what the scriptures say. You deny the truth.

No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven--the Son of Man. See John 3:13.

God sent his Son into the world. John 3:17.

Jesus came from the Father. See John 1:14.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38.

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But it is not as you take it as it is the pre-incarnate that came from Heaven that it is speaking of and of His Zeal made Jesus and Him one.

Gibs said:

But it is not as you take it as it is the pre-incarnate that came from Heaven that it is speaking of and of His Zeal made Jesus and Him one.

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I say what the scriptures say.

Jesus the MAN came from heaven.

Jesus' FLESH is the WORD OF GOD THAT CAME FROM HEAVEN.

Flesh don't come from Heaven, a few of flesh were taken there and Jesus was one but His body was made and born of woman here on earth!

Gibs said:

Flesh don't come from Heaven, a few of flesh were taken there and Jesus was one but His body was made and born of woman here on earth!

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Jesus had a Spiritual body in heaven before coming to earth.

Jesus is the First and the Last.

Jesus' FLESH is the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is Jesus' flesh. See John 6:51.

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

THIS said:

Jesus had a Spiritual body in heaven before coming to earth.

Jesus is the First and the Last.

Jesus' FLESH is the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is Jesus' flesh. See John 6:51.

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

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Yes it was God's redeemer Spirit in Heaven, Lord of Hosts that came down from Heaven and yes He is Spirit and He came and dwelt in the Flesh and spiritually we must eat His Flesh.

He gave His Flesh on the cross for the life of the world. We eat His Flesh by accepting His sacrifice for our sins.

Certainly He can rightly state I am the first and the Last as the Eternal One was dwelling in Him in ALL fullness bodily!

nm