• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Tribulation and more...

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I appreciate your comprehensive response. If I understand correctly from your first sentence, you are defining Israel ethnically ("descendants of the 12 tribes").

A pivotal issue requiring resolution is that of who comprised covenant Israel from the very beginning. The answer is seen in Genesis 17:12:
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

That is, the criteria to enter into covenant relationship with God under the old covenant were not determined by ethnicity, but rather by faith and obedience in and to God and His covenant conditions.

Ethnicity was not a criterion.

Conversely:

Hebrews 10:28
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Ethnicity was insufficient for survival if faith and obedience were abandoned. The numerous OT accounts where God slew ethnic Israelites by the thousands when they disbelieved and disobeyed further convincingly confirm the inefficacy and irrelevance of ethnicity.

Thus to attempt to define Israel today in terms of ethnicity is to fail to recognize that, from the very beginning, the conditions for a covenant relationship with God and His Son have only ever been faith and obedience, and nothing else.

Today, it is exclusively the Church who are the Chosen People who meet those conditions.
 
Upvote 0

Ronald

Exhortations
Site Supporter
Jul 30, 2004
4,620
981
southern
✟111,578.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Revelation 15:1 refers to what kind of plagues?

So, can any of those be the ones to start the time of trouble?

What does the last verse in Revelation 15 say?

Where are the people found in Rev. 7 that came out of great tribulation?
You are avoiding my questions, and giving me more questions. What kind of plagues? Destructive plagues against the unbelievers.
The last verse of Rev. 15 says the Temple is not open until these plagues are released.,Then you ask about the multitude, which is the church in Chapter 7. Revelation is not in Chronological order and the spiritual realm is outside of our time domain so don't try to grasp it that way.
You said, "The 7th trumpet is first."
Then you said, "The Great Tribulation is over first."
Again, why do you think the seven bowls of wrath are not part of the Great Tribulation period?
 
Upvote 0