Treating People With Dignity and Respect.

[mattlock73]

No offense taken. I just wanted to point out that some gay people are not in relationships and are not having sex. I personally don't think that my being in a relationship would make my life "sinful" any more than it is now. But I have been busy raising my daughter, and I have chosen not to be in an intimate relationship with a spouse at this time in my life.

Understood. My sister-in-law is in the same predicament with a daughter of her own and being a single parent. It's a tough gig.

 

[Armistead]

When groups that self-identify as Christians, such as Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council, Concerned Women for America, and others, promote a constitutional amendment that effectively bans same-sex marriage, that's a religiously motivated effort to write discrimination into the U.S. constitution. Fortunately, their efforts so far have failed.

I am a Christian and most of my life I was against same sex marriage or unions. I have studied the issue biblically as hard as I know how. Of course, in my past I was very against homosexuality. Today, I'm not so sure. I can biblically argue both sides with effect. Like many areas of the bible that becomes a problem.

However, I believe the constitution should allow same sex marriage. I do not believe gay marriage will destroy the traditional marriage...it's been destroyed fairly well with high divorce rates without gay marriage.

I think it's sad that gay people are told they can't be Christian. If it is sin, there are enough other sins that
would put most people in hell. I am UR, so I believe all people will be in heaven.

 

[BigBadWlf]

And what how exactly are Christians who stand up and say I believe that your actions are sinful and here is the reason why maligning or discriminating.

That is what I asked. I simply cited one group of Christians, specifically racists.

You didn’t answer me.

When racists stand up for what they believe. When racists quote the bible to justify their position on the social inferiority of non-whites. When racists call for discriminatory laws…are they not maligning and discriminating?

Your comparison of white-supremacists to all Christians is like me saying all homosexuals want to rape children by citing NAMBLA. Yes, there are extremists in every group, yes they represent the minority not the majority.

I compared “white supremacists” to “all Christians? Where exactly did I do that?

We have the first amendment which guarantees sickos on either side get to say what they wish, and that is a good thing. Would you have it any other way?

You mean “sickos” who use the bible to attack our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters




Back to the point:
why is it wrong in your opinion for a racist to stand up for what they believe, quote the bible to justify their position on the social inferiority of non-whites and call for discriminatory laws against non-whites but when the exact same things are done to homosexuasl you support it?

 

[savedandhappy1]

I think a lot of people in this country have been almost fooled into thinking that issues such as gay marriage and abortion are the main moral issues that need to be dealt with. Not homelessness, poverty, violence,disease,etc. that have a more devastating effect on this country and the world. This probably has to do with the fact that many people feel apathetic towards these issues but have strong feelings towards homosexuality and abortion. It's unfortunate.

Why can't all the above be dealt with? Why does it mean that we aren't working on poverty, homelessness, violence, disease, etc. if we believe that homosexuality and abortions are sins? Do people really believe that we are so wrapped up in trying to show people that those two things are sin sand aganist God that we can't help fight anything else?

The Lord pointed out that the church should take care of the widows, orphans, homeless. This isn't being done like it should be but that doesn't mean that every Christians isn't doing their part in trying to follow the Lord and be obedient to His Word.

It is unfortuate that these issues aren't being address the way they should, but it is also unfortuate that people try and say that people who believe homosexuality and abortions are sins can't or aren't doing anything else the Bible shows us the Lord wants us to do.

 

[naotmaa]

Why can't all the above be dealt with? Why does it mean that we aren't working on poverty, homelessness, violence, disease, etc. if we believe that homosexuality and abortions are sins? Do people really believe that we are so wrapped up in trying to show people that those two things are sin sand aganist God that we can't help fight anything else?

The Lord pointed out that the church should take care of the widows, orphans, homeless. This isn't being done like it should be but that doesn't mean that every Christians isn't doing their part in trying to follow the Lord and be obedient to His Word.

It is unfortuate that these issues aren't being address the way they should, but it is also unfortuate that people try and say that people who believe homosexuality and abortions are sins can't or aren't doing anything else the Bible shows us the Lord wants us to do.

Thats not what I was trying to say. Some people's priorities as far as moral issues are concerned seem to be a little skewed. I know many Christians who volunteer on issues such as poverty and the like. I also know there are Christians out there who have their priorities straight and realize that poverty, homelessness, etc. are much more urgent issues than gay issues are.

But also see quite a few Christians who seem to focus too much on gay issues. I didn't say that they represent every Christian, just an unfortunate portion.

 

[artybloke]

One of the things that treating people with dignity and respect is about is accepting the possibility that you are wrong.

That your/my way of reading the Bible is wrong.
That your/my view of what "gay people" are like is wrong.
That your/my behaviour towards others is wrong.

It seems to me that it's not about the expressing of an opinion about "what the Bible says" that's the problem; it's about the way you do it. Emphatically saying "The Bible says..." does nobody any good. Sitting down and asking, "what does the Bible say?" is better, because then you're inviting someone to a dialogue, and you make yourself vulnerable to change.

That's much more uncomfortable than standing on the high moral ground and shouting down at people, of course, which is why more of us don't do it...

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear artybloke,
If you mean that then I assume you accept peoples way of reading the Bible exactly as it says that homosexual offenders shall not inherit the Kingdom is treating people with dignity.
Of course if one asks someone what the Bible says and they tell you it says the opposite of what it actually says that doesnt seem to be treating people with dignity.

 

[artybloke]

If you mean that then I assume you accept peoples way of reading the Bible exactly as it says that homosexual offenders shall not inherit the Kingdom is treating people with dignity.

A very fine example of someone not really being willing to accept the possibility that their reading of it is wrong. It assumes that YOUR way of reading the Bible (as opposed to MY way of reading the Bible) is "exactly what it says."

I'm quite prepared to accept that it's what you think it says. I'm even quite prepared to accept that it might say what you think it says. I'm quite prepared to accept the possibility that what I think it says is wrong. But are YOU prepared to accept the possibility that what YOU think it says is wrong?

Or are you just going to insist that YOUR reading of it is the right one, mine is the wrong one, and we'll just go round in circles again?

Unless BOTH parties are prepared to accept the possibility of being wrong, there's no point in talking, is there?

 

[savedandhappy1]

Thats not what I was trying to say. Some people's priorities as far as moral issues are concerned seem to be a little skewed. I know many Christians who volunteer on issues such as poverty and the like. I also know there are Christians out there who have their priorities straight and realize that poverty, homelessness, etc. are much more urgent issues than gay issues are.

But also see quite a few Christians who seem to focus too much on gay issues. I didn't say that they represent every Christian, just an unfortunate portion.

So there are sins that aren't urgent issues if they are said will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God?

Even God said the poor will always be with us, and since when did poverty, homelessness, etc. become things that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom of God?

If they aren't things that will keep someone from inheriting the Kingdom, then don't you think the things that will should be consided more important?

There are, as I said, an unfortuate number of Christian that don't go about the Father's business. This is very true, and sad.

 

[artybloke]

Even God said the poor will always be with us, and since when did poverty, homelessness, etc. become things that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom of God?

Since when did homosexuality keep people from inheriting the kingdom of God? And I do remember a parable about Dives and Lazarus, where a rich man was kept from inheriting the Kingdom of God by refusing to help a poor man.

Seems to have been said by the same man who said that "it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven that it is for a camel to go through the eye of a needle."

Of course, no doubt using the slyest of Jewish irony voices, he did say "anything is possible for God."

So even rich people could enter the Kingdom of God after all...

They'd enjoy meeting up with all those poor folks, gays, drinkers and assorted other sinners that got there before them...

 

[naotmaa]

So there are sins that aren't urgent issues if they are said will cause someone to not inherit the Kingdom of God?

Even God said the poor will always be with us, and since when did poverty, homelessness, etc. become things that will keep people from inheriting the Kingdom of God?

If they aren't things that will keep someone from inheriting the Kingdom, then don't you think the things that will should be consided more important?

There are, as I said, an unfortuate number of Christian that don't go about the Father's business. This is very true, and sad.

I think if you feel that gay issues are important to adress, I think thats fine. Its when people start treating these issues as more important than issues like poverty, violence, abuse, homelessness, etc. where I strongly disagree with them.

 

[Phinehas2]

OH I dont know, if someone kept saying poverty was good and poor people deserved to be poor, I am sure there would be plenty of people treating it with the utmost importance

 

[Ohioprof]

OH I dont know, if someone kept saying poverty was good and poor people deserved to be poor, I am sure there would be plenty of people treating it with the utmost importance

There are people who say that poor people deserve to be poor. They say that poor people lack initiative, that poor people need to work to better themselves and stop looking to government for help. There are indeed people who say this.

 

[savedandhappy1]

I think if you feel that gay issues are important to adress, I think thats fine. Its when people start treating these issues as more important than issues like poverty, violence, abuse, homelessness, etc. where I strongly disagree with them.

Jesus didn't just speak of one thing or only speak to one type of person or issue, so since He is the example why would we think that is what we should do?

As everyone knows I believe homosexuality is a sin, but so is adultery, idoltry, greed, anything to excess if that be drinking eating, etc.

My question would be should a person just take care of the poor, homeless, etc. and not try to point people away from sin? If it be by showing someone where the Lord brought you from or just showing that the word says it is a sin, the seed should be planted.

I find alot of us have different understanding of what love is. To me it is loving if a brother or sister makes me accountable for my actions, and/or points out to me that I have gone astray.

To me it is love to try to show someone that because of sin we are dead both physically and spiritually, but that with the Lord we can be alive both physically and spiritually. To show them that we are all sinners, and the only answer is Christ, but that isn't what others call love. They seem to think that if we love someone it has to also mean we have to love their sin, and I never have seen anywhere that that is the example that Christ gave. He said go and sin no more, not keep on keeping on, because I love you.

I have been labeled a hater, bigot, etc., but .........................

 

[BigBadWlf]

OH I dont know, if someone kept saying poverty was good and poor people deserved to be poor, I am sure there would be plenty of people treating it with the utmost importance

Just like if someone were to claim that the poor are not and cannot be Christians or that it is perfectly fine to discriminate against the poor. Or how about someone claiming that the poor are disease ridden or child molesters

 

[BigBadWlf]

To me it is love to try to show someone that because of sin we are dead both physically and spiritually, but that with the Lord we can be alive both physically and spiritually. To show them that we are all sinners, and the only answer is Christ, but that isn't what others call love. They seem to think that if we love someone it has to also mean we have to love their sin, and I never have seen anywhere that that is the example that Christ gave. He said go and sin no more, not keep on keeping on, because I love you.

I have been labeled a hater, bigot, etc., but .........................

And if you do not like that…then perhaps you should look at how you use your views of religion to justify your personal prejudices.

 

[Templedweller]

What the Bible calls sin is not necessarily sin? Are you serious?


WOW


my2cents

 

[naotmaa]

Jesus didn't just speak of one thing or only speak to one type of person or issue, so since He is the example why would we think that is what we should do?

As everyone knows I believe homosexuality is a sin, but so is adultery, idoltry, greed, anything to excess if that be drinking eating, etc.

My question would be should a person just take care of the poor, homeless, etc. and not try to point people away from sin? If it be by showing someone where the Lord brought you from or just showing that the word says it is a sin, the seed should be planted.

I find alot of us have different understanding of what love is. To me it is loving if a brother or sister makes me accountable for my actions, and/or points out to me that I have gone astray.

To me it is love to try to show someone that because of sin we are dead both physically and spiritually, but that with the Lord we can be alive both physically and spiritually. To show them that we are all sinners, and the only answer is Christ, but that isn't what others call love. They seem to think that if we love someone it has to also mean we have to love their sin, and I never have seen anywhere that that is the example that Christ gave. He said go and sin no more, not keep on keeping on, because I love you.

I have been labeled a hater, bigot, etc., but .........................

And as I already said that is fine. it's when people put so much focus on gay issues (like marriage, adoption, etc.) that they almost forget about issues like poverty, homelessness, violence, etc., which I consider more urgent, that I do not at all agree with.

 

[davedjy]

What the Bible calls sin is not necessarily sin? Are you serious?


WOW


my2cents

What the Bible calls sin ____from a narrow-minded INTERPRETATION ____is not necessarily sin?


Not so sure how that fits in with Catlover's OP which asks the question:
Why do some people believe it is Biblical to malign and discriminate against a certain group of people?

Even from the "it's sin" perspective, how is discrimination excusable just because you believe the Bible to say something?

 

[mattlock73]

That is what I asked. I simply cited one group of Christians, specifically racists.

You didn’t answer me.

When racists stand up for what they believe. When racists quote the bible to justify their position on the social inferiority of non-whites. When racists call for discriminatory laws…are they not maligning and discriminating?

Racists are not Christians any more than Hitler was a Christian. Calling for discrimination based on race is wrong. I don't see how that compares with someone standing up and saying that they believe that the Bible states homosexual actions are sinful.

I compared “white supremacists” to “all Christians? Where exactly did I do that?

If you did not, then I apologize, that was how I read your statement.

You mean “sickos” who use the bible to attack our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters

Yes, those too. But one's definition of attack differs.

Back to the point:

why is it wrong in your opinion for a racist to stand up for what they believe, quote the bible to justify their position on the social inferiority of non-whites and call for discriminatory laws against non-whites but when the exact same things are done to homosexuasl you support it?

First of all, I said that I would be in favor of legal unions. Second, besides the gay marriage agenda (and discrimination would be a loose term here at best), how else are you being discriminated against by Christians?