Transhumanism

[DogmaHunter]

Transhumanism is defined as "the belief or theory that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations, especially by means of science and technology".

What are your guys' thoughts on this?

Considering current technological advances and the progress being made in neurology etc...
Considering that already today, we begin to understand how to "read" and "direct" brain functionality...
Considering the advances in nano-technology and the proofs of concept that such "robots" might become the (preventive?) medicines of the future...


I'ld say that, assuming that our current civilisation can continue on, it is practically inevitable that we will enhance our natural abilities by "upgrading" both our bodies as well as individual body parts by means of technology, chip implants and nano-robotics.

In some cases, it is actually already happening.
There are already the first cases where we allow deaf people to hear or near-blind persons to see, "simply" by implanting chips etc.

Simple glasses or contact lenses are also a form of "human enhancement through technology", although a crude and primitive one.

However, these are more accessories that you wear. As opposed to in the future where things will get implanted and actually become part of who you are.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Considering current technological advances and the progress being made in neurology etc...
Considering that already today, we begin to understand how to "read" and "direct" brain functionality...
Considering the advances in nano-technology and the proofs of concept that such "robots" might become the (preventive?) medicines of the future...


I'ld say that, assuming that our current civilisation can continue on, it is practically inevitable that we will enhance our natural abilities by "upgrading" both our bodies as well as individual body parts by means of technology, chip implants and nano-robotics.

In some cases, it is actually already happening.
There are already the first cases where we allow deaf people to hear or near-blind persons to see, "simply" by implanting chips etc.

Simple glasses or contact lenses are also a form of "human enhancement through technology", although a crude and primitive one.

However, these are more accessories that you wear. As opposed to in the future where things will get implanted and actually become part of who you are.

Yes. The worry is not prosthetics, or additive external technology to help us. The qualm with transhumanism is the actual trans part.

Transhumanism is actually about manipulating gene sequences and the DNA of humans to attain a desired result. Making an alteration on an autosomal chromosome is an example of this (Bourne.)

Once you genetically modify something from its natural genetics, it is no longer that "thing." There is a difference between "an eclipse happening, and we all turn into x-men," because that is a natural event. And, it means your natural genetics were already susceptible that natural event such that they transform.

 

[Radrook]

Yes. The worry is not prosthetics, or additive external technology to help us. The qualm with transhumanism is the actual trans part.

Transhumanism is actually about manipulating gene sequences and the DNA of humans to attain a desired result. Making an alteration on an autosomal chromosome is an example of this (Bourne.)

Once you genetically modify something from its natural genetics, it is no longer that "thing." There is a difference between "an eclipse happening, and we all turn into x-men," because that is a natural event. And, it means your natural genetics were already susceptible that natural event such that they transform.

Is it indeed natural for humans to be subjected to anything that might harm the organism either physically or psychologically by causing it to be treated as a social pariah or subjecting it to severe psychological distress to the point of suicide? True, the event can be deemed natural from a perspective that it was nature that did it or inflicted it. But it is difficult to view the results as simply natural in the full sense of the word which includes ""normal" simply because it can be traced to an event of nature.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Is it indeed natural for humans to be subjected to anything that might harm the organism either physically or psychologically by causing it to be treated as a social pariah or subjecting it to severe psychological distress to the point of suicide?

Yes, because you are a human. And, for you especially, you know that what our prime parents did exposed us to DEATH - which is actually unnatural (spiritually, maybe academia will actually realize this soon.)

But, bullying someone to suicide, or harming someone through delights in torture is 100% natural - because humans are not good. And, I mean that objectively; no human except Christ does 100% good 100% of the time. It is even more natural because people the example we are speaking of is a psychopathy. Unless the person has had their genetics altered to be more psychologically susceptible to that type of behavior, it is all natural.

True, the event can be deemed natural from a perspective that it was nature that did it or inflicted it. But it is difficult to view the results as simply natural in the full sense of the word which includes ""normal" simply because it can be traced to an event of nature.

Well in terms of the OP - transhumanism - and not the philosophy of morality, this is a completely normal and natural thing for humans to do. We hurt and kill things better than we love things; it is in our [sin/carnal] nature.

Transhumanism is part of the abomination that causes desolation - when we do like they did in the antediluvian world and start turning humans into genetic monstrosities (monstrosities don't always look or feel bad) by way of direct pollution of bloodline (hybrids,) or genetic alteration.

It doesn't seem like a big deal, because people are being helped it seems. However, you are no longer natural human if you change your physical vessel on a genetic level. Even if you alter a chromosome to obliterate the onset, and progression of dementia, that is sti transhumanism - because your natural genetics determined you to develop dementia. The only boundary on transhumanism, and "manufacturing" gods would be your amount of disposable asset$ you have.

The MOTB isn't a chip, although those that people are scare of do allegedly run on power by consuming local amino acids. The real MOTB is of course a spirit alignment to the beast and also an active working show of allegiance - like genetic alteration. Would you want to be a transhuman whose healing factor is extremely fast - such that you survive an incredible solar event that scorched all earth down to 100m? You would burn alive, heal, burn alive, heal, etc. instead of dying "once" like a regular human, or going into shock at least. You would feel it.

"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." Revelation 9:6

 

[Radrook]

Yes, because you are a human. And, for you especially, you know that what our prime parents did exposed us to DEATH - which is actually unnatural (spiritually, maybe academia will actually realize this soon.)

But, bullying someone to suicide, or harming someone through delights in torture is 100% natural - because humans are not good. And, I mean that objectively; no human except Christ does 100% good 100% of the time. It is even more natural because people the example we are speaking of is a psychopathy. Unless the person has had their genetics altered to be more psychologically susceptible to that type of behavior, it is all natural.




Well in terms of the OP - transhumanism - and not the philosophy of morality, this is a completely normal and natural thing for humans to do. We hurt and kill things better than we love things; it is in our [sin/carnal] nature.

Transhumanism is part of the abomination that causes desolation - when we do like they did in the antediluvian world and start turning humans into genetic monstrosities (monstrosities don't always look or feel bad) by way of direct pollution of bloodline (hybrids,) or genetic alteration.

It doesn't seem like a big deal, because people are being helped it seems. However, you are no longer natural human if you change your physical vessel on a genetic level. Even if you alter a chromosome to obliterate the onset, and progression of dementia, that is sti transhumanism - because your natural genetics determined you to develop dementia. The only boundary on transhumanism, and "manufacturing" gods would be your amount of disposable asset$ you have.

The MOTB isn't a chip, although those that people are scare of do allegedly run on power by consuming local amino acids. The real MOTB is of course a spirit alignment to the beast and also an active working show of allegiance - like genetic alteration. Would you want to be a transhuman whose healing factor is extremely fast - such that you survive an incredible solar event that scorched all earth down to 100m? You would burn alive, heal, burn alive, heal, etc. instead of dying "once" like a regular human, or going into shock at least. You would feel it.

"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." Revelation 9:6

The Bible doesn't describe our present social situation as normal or natural.

Ecclesiastes 7:29 ►
New International Version
This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes."

It calls the original way things were created as being good. But describes then totally differently after the Fall. That's why it promises a restoration of all things.

Acts 3:21 New International Version
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

　 　

Nature itself is considered to be in decay and needing to be fixed.. 　

Romans 8:21

that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

　

Happily we are not left in the dark about what exactly such a liberation or a restoration involves: 　

Revelation 21:4 ►
New International Version
He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

Peter 3:13

But in keeping with God's promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Which means that the behavior that some might deem natural today, such as the predation among animals, warfare and human selfishness which causes tears and suffering will be replaced with a righteous order where such behavior will be absent.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Yes, because you are a human. And, for you especially, you know that what our prime parents did exposed us to DEATH - which is actually unnatural (spiritually, maybe academia will actually realize this soon.)

But, bullying someone to suicide, or harming someone through delights in torture is 100% natural - because humans are not good. And, I mean that objectively; no human except Christ does 100% good 100% of the time. It is even more natural because people the example we are speaking of is a psychopathy. Unless the person has had their genetics altered to be more psychologically susceptible to that type of behavior, it is all natural.




Well in terms of the OP - transhumanism - and not the philosophy of morality, this is a completely normal and natural thing for humans to do. We hurt and kill things better than we love things; it is in our [sin/carnal] nature.

Transhumanism is part of the abomination that causes desolation - when we do like they did in the antediluvian world and start turning humans into genetic monstrosities (monstrosities don't always look or feel bad) by way of direct pollution of bloodline (hybrids,) or genetic alteration.

It doesn't seem like a big deal, because people are being helped it seems. However, you are no longer natural human if you change your physical vessel on a genetic level. Even if you alter a chromosome to obliterate the onset, and progression of dementia, that is sti transhumanism - because your natural genetics determined you to develop dementia. The only boundary on transhumanism, and "manufacturing" gods would be your amount of disposable asset$ you have.

The MOTB isn't a chip, although those that people are scare of do allegedly run on power by consuming local amino acids. The real MOTB is of course a spirit alignment to the beast and also an active working show of allegiance - like genetic alteration. Would you want to be a transhuman whose healing factor is extremely fast - such that you survive an incredible solar event that scorched all earth down to 100m? You would burn alive, heal, burn alive, heal, etc. instead of dying "once" like a regular human, or going into shock at least. You would feel it.

"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." Revelation 9:6

The "MOTB"
refers to something Nero did. The Beast is Nero and Revelation was relevant to the churches under persecution at the time. Not related to any sort of future assumptions.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

The Bible doesn't describe our present social situation as normal or natural.



It calls the original way things were created as being good. But describes then totally differently after the Fall. That's why it promises a restoration of all things.

We were created in the image of God. We fell into carnality. Of course God didn't make us like this; we did it to ourselves.

But, murder, suicide, bullying, racism, sexism, lying, hedonism, rape, war, theft, and every other sin imaginable is 100% natural carnality. For the state in which we exist, it is 100% normal human genetic expression.

The only genetic modifications one can do to remedy this - approved by God - is sanctification, then resurrection. Otherwise, if a human or any other entity other than the Most High genetically alters a human, they are no longer humans; they are monstrosities of human genetics (or, simply *not human*.)
　 　

Nature itself is considered to be in decay and needing to be fixed.. 　

Just because it needs to be fixed doesn't mean it isn't in its natural state. That is the point about us never being able to obtain perfection on our own. A carnal human creature with an "on loan" spirit from God still requires sanctification; that transforms the spirit, not necessarily the material genetics of the human vessel. But, every man dies once - then judgment. That is the natural order for a carnal human.

　

Happily we are not left in the dark about what exactly such a liberation or a restoration involves:

　




Which means that the behavior that some might deem natural today, such as the predation among animals, warfare and human selfishness which causes tears and suffering will be replaced with a righteous order where such behavior will be absent.

They most certainly will be replaced. But, for now, we exist as carnal vessels, some of us with "on loan" spirits from God until we resurrect.

A not so much talked about thing in Christianity is the fact that God, unfortunstely, did NOT lie: Adam immediately began to naturally decay (die,) and Adam immediately killed his spirit. That is why righteousness was such a big deal to people before Christ - they had no "comforter" to encourage them. It also may explain why they saw angels and heard God more often than people do now. We have The Comforter, and they didnt.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

The "MOTB"
refers to something Nero did. The Beast is Nero and Revelation was relevant to the churches under persecution at the time. Not related to any sort of future assumptions.

I have heard those stories. I entertain them.

But, the MOTB is parallel to Daniel 11 - which has not happened yet. The 144,000 is parallel to Daniel 11-12, which has not happened yet.

The MOTB, called other names in the apcrypha, is directly related to the abominations in the antediluvian world. It is also directly related to the phenomenon that happened in Genesis 3, ad Genesis 6.

It is an allusion to the reason why God commanded the Hebrews to kill all living entities (what some deem genocide, without knowing what, for example, the philistines were.)

When the Enemy starts to entice many people with flatteries in Daniel 11, that is related to transhumanism, which is related to the antediluvian world, which is related to the MOTB, which is related to the abominations that cause desolation.


Even though the canon has been altered, and books are deemed heretical then canon again (like Revelation,) and there are many purposeful and accidental mistakes in translation ad context, the canon is still resonant in divine touch so much that all of those demerits against the canon compel one to seek out resolution for thsee demerits - which drives the person closer to truth, as opposed to accepted personal truth.

And, if Nero was the beast, where is Christ?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The "MOTB"
refers to something Nero did. The Beast is Nero and Revelation was relevant to the churches under persecution at the time. Not related to any sort of future assumptions.

...that Revelation has nothing to do with today is itself an assumption, Crystal. Personally, I take the book of Revelation as being completely relevant not only to the 1st century, but also to today (and the future). In fact, I think Revelation is prescient of the technological jump that 20th - 21st century humanity has engineered.

Something to think about.

 

[Radrook]

The introduction to Revelation clearly tells us that the things he saw were to occur during the Lord's Day. You know, the time period Jesus spoke about in Mathew chapter twenty four?

 

[juvenissun]

Transhumanism is defined as "the belief or theory that the human race can evolve beyond its current physical and mental limitations, especially by means of science and technology".

What are your guys' thoughts on this? Personally I think that if done right and so it's widespread for everyone (without just a few people having control over it and the like), I feel like improving ourselves with technology and such would be great. I'd want a bionic eye anyway providing no damage would be done to my other one. XD

I know that some say "it's man trying to become God", but I wouldn't say we'd become like God unless we could create things in the blink of an eye or the like, which we can't do because physics. Improving ourselves through our endeavors shouldn't be a problem if it's done so it's available to everyone and people can't abuse it.

Back in the time of Genesis, God have said: " ... now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Gen. 11)

We should not be surprised.

However, one thing is for sure: we were not evolved and we will not evolve.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Back in the time of Genesis, God have said: " ... now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do." (Gen. 11)

That sure worried the socks off God, didn't it?

 

[Radrook]

That sure worried the socks off God, didn't it?

No worry involved. Just a statement.

 

[TLK Valentine]

No worry involved. Just a statement.

Ah, but that statement preceded an action...

 

[Radrook]

Ah, but that statement preceded an action...

It was an explanatory statement so that we would know why that very drastic action which would drastically affect human society via prevention of world cultural cohesion in the service of false worship was necessary..

Ecclesiastes 7:29 ►
New International Version
This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes."

 

[juvenissun]

That sure worried the socks off God, didn't it?

Actually a very good question. I don't have a good answer to it for now.

 

[TLK Valentine]

It was an explanatory statement so that we would know why that very drastic action which would drastically affect human society via prevention of world cultural cohesion in the service of false worship was necessary..

What false worship would that be?

 

[Radrook]

What false worship would that be?

Nimrod who built the ziggurat was not a worshipper of God. He worshipped false gods and his ziggurat was an attempt at building a focal point for that worship.

The reason for building the tower is stated in Genesis 11:4; they built the tower so that the people of the area would not be scattered over the face of the earth. This would seem to tie in with the religious worship which developed at the tower. The towers drawing power was that it was the center of a worship of the stars. Thus false religion was invented to directly oppose the commandment of God to repopulate the Earth. That is the intend of all false religion. It began there in ancient Babylon
THE TOWER OF BABEL & THE ANCESTRY OF ABRAHAM - Genesis 11

The dispersed people took their false Babylonish worship ideas to the areas they settled.
Some, like the Aztecs and Mayas even built towers of their own.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Nimrod who built the ziggurat was not a worshipper of God. He worshipped false gods and his ziggurat was an attempt at building a focal point for that worship.

And yet, every other time the people worshiped false gods, God punished them after the fact. This time, He chose instead to sabotage their efforts before they came to fruition.

When a God who is allegedly eternal and unchanging does something different, certain questions are raised.

The dispersed people took their false Babylonish worship ideas to the areas they settled.
Some, like the Aztecs and Mayas even built towers of their own.

So rather than a false religion in one place, it spread all over the world. If this was truly God's intention, it backfired drastically.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Yes. The worry is not prosthetics, or additive external technology to help us. The qualm with transhumanism is the actual trans part.

Transhumanism is actually about manipulating gene sequences and the DNA of humans to attain a desired result. Making an alteration on an autosomal chromosome is an example of this (Bourne.)

Once you genetically modify something from its natural genetics, it is no longer that "thing." There is a difference between "an eclipse happening, and we all turn into x-men," because that is a natural event. And, it means your natural genetics were already susceptible that natural event such that they transform.

So, you are against genetically manipulating an embryo to for example remove an unecessary gene that only leads to cancer if it is present?

I'ld also add that given how we currently deal with humans in medical sciences, we'll eventually have no other choice but to start genetical "clean ups" of our genome.

You see, because of medical sciences, we have seriously interfered with natural selection. Easily half the population of humans alive today, wouldn't have survived past the age of 5 only 100 years ago.

We are effectively "polluting" our genome by keep genes in the gene pool that otherwise would have never gotten a chance to reproduce.

So if a "natural state" of DNA is your concern, then I'm sorry to tell you that we have crossed that line a long time ago already.

Our DNA is not in a "natural state" anymore, as we keep people alive today in "unnatural" ways (through medical science).