Transgender son

[jennimatts]

It really depends on what is meant by transgender... if it simply means homosexual...

Yes, transgender is an umbrella term, so it can be defined in many different ways. But, that's not what it means. It's not remotely the same.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Whoa! Didn't see that coming! Please elaborate.

Yes, transgender is an umbrella term, so it can be defined in many different ways. But, that's not what it means. It's not remotely the same.

It seems like you have been able to evade the entire discussion. I have already explained it all.

And you didn't see what coming? That there is nothing wrong with transgenders? You thinking otherwise is completely unfounded. I have simply explained what concludes male and female and if a transgendered person wants to be Christian, they have to be prepared to face the truth, that's all.

And I would suggest that you thoroughly read everything I've said on it before commenting because frankly I've already had my fair share of straw mans lately among these threads.

 

[jennimatts]

Physically:
If you have a womb, you are a woman.
If you do not, you are a man.

If their is a 'Y' somewhere in your chromosome, you are a male. Without the 'Y' you cannot have male assets.
Some people think that the extra 'X' somehow makes them female, but the truth is, they really think that 'X' gives them free reign to choose.
Think about it., if one has the reproductive organs of a given sex, then that is what concludes it. Not only does this fit with the Bible (as was covered), but it fits into nature as well...

No, it doesn't always fit with nature.



Look up "XX Male" and "XY female". These are naturally occurring conditions. Since you probably wouldn't look it up...

Characteristics of XX Males...
Two X chromosomes as is typical of females
Male external genitalia
Most have descended testes
Absence of Müllerian tissue

What did you say... "Without the 'Y' you cannot have male assets". Wrong!



Characteristics of XY females...
One X and one Y chromosome as is typical of males
Normal female genitalia
Normal female organs such as uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix, vagina
Implanting a fertilized egg can result in normal pregnancy and delivery

Here's another problem, you first said "If you have a womb, you are a woman", then said "If the[re] is a 'Y' somewhere in your chromosome, you are a male".

Now, I have just shown your definitions sometimes conflict in nature with reference to XY females that have a womb. Not only do they have a womb, but they can be impregnated, so they must be female. Yet they have a Y chromosome and are therefore male by your own statement.



Please explain. This fits with the Bible... how?

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Well that special exception doesn't mean anything, because everyone has a dominant reproductive organ. XY females just happen to have a male asset attached them, which is removed and given hormones to balance it all out. Probably the least consequential of all transgender incidents.

So no matter how you put it, I'm right.

 

[jennimatts]

XY females just happen to have a male asset attached them, which is removed and given hormones to balance it all out.

What? XY females have a male asset which is removed? I don't think you understand the condition.

Apart from being sterile and having low estrogen levels, XY females are naturally female while having a Y chromosome, which as yet medical science cannot remove.

 

[jennimatts]

So no matter how you put it, I'm right.

 

[jennimatts]

...He could get a arm regrowth eventually and do you think he wouldnt?

...He might, but then others might get their feelings reversed.

Perhaps, but that sounds dangerously like mind control. If in the future it is possible to change ones sense of gender identity, why not leave it up to the individual with GID to seek competent medical treatment and choose which is the best option for themselves?

 

[jennimatts]

And you didn't see what coming? That there is nothing wrong with transgenders? You thinking otherwise is completely unfounded. I have simply explained what concludes male and female and if a transgendered person wants to be Christian, they have to be prepared to face the truth, that's all.

Obviously you consider transgender to equate to sin, and I find it surprising that you would say there is nothing wrong with transgenders... unless one wants to be a Christian. In regard to actions that clearly are sin, let's consider rape for example. I don't think you would say "it's OK... unless one wants to be a Christian".

In my earlier post I outlined naturally occurring conditions that fracture your definitions of man and woman. Notice I didn't say they completely overturn your definitions, I merely point out that there are exceptions.

GID cannot be observed visually the same as genetalia, reproductive organs, or even DNA under a microscope. But that doesn't mean it isn't a real condition nor does it exclude GID being an exception to your definitions. There has been extensive research and documentation over several decades of this condition and its treatment.

I don't believe having a sex change is necessarily a sin, but that it depends on ones motives for doing so. Having been diagnosed with GID, I underwent medical treatment for my condition.

For me, facing the truth is recognizing that none of us are righteous and believing in Jesus as my savior and repenting of my sins. Being then covered by Jesus gracious and merciful sacrifice I feel a calling to serve God to the best of my abilities by showing Gods love and mercy to those who do not yet believe.

Many Christians would surely doubt I could truly be saved (being that I'm a post op transsexual woman). However, even if having a sex change were a sin, I trust in Jesus my savior to forgive all my sins, removing them as far as the east is from the west. Thank God other Christians do not determine who is eligible to be covered by His grace and mercy. I am certain of my salvation.

 

[rturner76]

Woman Wom-man Womb-man Man

I feel so sad for and I extend love to all those who feel they have been born into the wrong body. I wish I could better relate but I'm merely a man born man who knows he's a man. If I was confused about that, I would not know who I was and it would cause problems in all areas of my life. I rearely if ever heard of a trasgendered person regreting their choice.

Is is right or wrong? A defect of character? A choice? Wow, some heavy questions surrounding these people. Very controversial. I know one thing for sure. God loves every hair on every head of every person. He know our pain and our struggles. I decided just this second that me ridiculing people who are already suffering internally and by the hand of so many "Christians" will bring no glory to God.

If I extend my loving embrace to them as Jesus would have in their greatest time of need. Maybe Jesus will find me worthy of calling me on of his friends, better yet one of his brothers and embrace me in my time of need.

Yeah I think as a Christian I MUST embrace these people as the children of the ever loving God. If one is reading, may you feel his love through me. Any person who calls themself a Christian and shows not love to one of gods creations, may god lovingly change your heart to one of acceptance and love for your fellow human and away from judgement and hatred

My every reader of this message be blessed

 

[jennimatts]

I am certain of my salvation.

Game Over! I win!

 

[jennimatts]

Woman Wom-man Womb-man Man

I feel so sad for and I extend love to all those who feel they have been born into the wrong body. I wish I could better relate but I'm merely a man born man who knows he's a man. If I was confused about that, I would not know who I was and it would cause problems in all areas of my life. I rearely if ever heard of a trasgendered person regreting their choice.

Is is right or wrong? A defect of character? A choice? Wow, some heavy questions surrounding these people. Very controversial. I know one thing for sure. God loves every hair on every head of every person. He know our pain and our struggles. I decided just this second that me ridiculing people who are already suffering internally and by the hand of so many "Christians" will bring no glory to God.

If I extend my loving embrace to them as Jesus would have in their greatest time of need. Maybe Jesus will find me worthy of calling me on of his friends, better yet one of his brothers and embrace me in my time of need.

Yeah I think as a Christian I MUST embrace these people as the children of the ever loving God. If one is reading, may you feel his love through me. Any person who calls themself a Christian and shows not love to one of gods creations, may god lovingly change your heart to one of acceptance and love for your fellow human and away from judgement and hatred

My every reader of this message be blessed

What a compassionate and loving (Christ-like) attitude!

God bless!

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Obviously you consider transgender to equate to sin, and I find it surprising that you would say there is nothing wrong with transgenders... unless one wants to be a Christian. In regard to actions that clearly are sin, let's consider rape for example. I don't think you would say "it's OK... unless one wants to be a Christian".

You know, this is the third time I have been assumed/accused to be talking down to transgenders. It's this sort of vain 'automatic' defense that keeps the ball rolling on these things.
If you give seeds, you are a man. If you give eggs, you are a woman.
If you are Christian, then you need to pursue whichever one you are.
Do not try to twist up my statements.

There is nothing wrong with transgenders, just like I said. But they are still subject to same ordinances of the Bible.

 

[Zebra1552]

You know, this is the third time I have been assumed/accused to be talking down to transgenders. It's this sort of vain 'automatic' defense that keeps the ball rolling on these things.
If you give seeds, you are a man. If you give eggs, you are a woman.
If you are Christian, then you need to pursue whichever one you are.
Do not try to twist up my statements.

There is nothing wrong with transgenders, just like I said. But they are still subject to same ordinances of the Bible.

Oh? And exactly what part of the Bible talks about this? You say you're not talking down to them, but you state that someone with seed is a man, and eggs a woman, when reality tells us otherwise. You completely ignored my post differentiating gender and sex and still insist upon equating the two, even though this is an affront to transgenders and a denial of the facts. How exactly are we twisting your words?

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Oh? And exactly what part of the Bible talks about this? You say you're not talking down to them, but you state that someone with seed is a man, and eggs a woman, when reality tells us otherwise. You completely ignored my post differentiating gender and sex and still insist upon equating the two, even though this is an affront to transgenders and a denial of the facts. How exactly are we twisting your words?

It's a systematic breakdown. Eve was a woman. The only thing that cannot be subject to change are the reproductive organs. If she was not a woman, she would not have been the mother of all man. There's no other way around that fact.
Instead of trying every desperate way you can with your sickeningly over-liberal contempt, how about looking at the facts. Your argument is one big giant denial complex.
Never try to rub me off as prejudice. you are not going to use that ridiculous notion to strong arm the argument.
With your idea, there really is no distinction between male and female. The Bible makes a distinction though, you can bet that. And everyone has a dominant sex, the rest is just opinion. And if you are arguing opinion, you really shouldn't be arguing at tall.
You have been fully refuted. Get over it. I'm not going to be deal with someone spread lies about me. And you better think before you post again because I will C&P all my previous arguments, consolidate them, and show you your straw man.
So you might as well chill with that. Nobody is going to point a finger at me. What in the Bible do you believe anyways? You seem to have a problem or counter for anything biblical. Yes, I've noticed you around these threads.
Jesus did not give us the freedom to do as we please. You need to remove the flowers and butterflies from your ideals and recognize that.

 

[jennimatts]

First off, see my siggy. God's creation isn't perfect.

You are entitled to that opinion. I however continue to believe the creation was originally perfect even with mankind being granted free will which later brought imperfection upon all of creation.

But again, were getting off topic here. That's a topic for a different thread.

 

[jennimatts]

How does this establish that transgendered people are not within God's plan? Why should your decision be the same as another's?

It doesn't. But, if the individual believes that medical treatment can alleviate their condition, who am I (or you, or...) to say it is Gods plan for you to live with it. It might very well be Gods plan for them to seek treatment. One of my main points to convey here is that one can be transgender and Christian. I leave it to the individual to make the choice to undergo treatment in consultation with their selected healthcare providers.

And to answer your next question, they are also free to choose different medical professionals if they disagree with the diagnosis or treatment.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

It's a systematic breakdown. Eve was a woman. The only thing that cannot be subject to change are the reproductive organs. If she was not a woman, she would not have been the mother of all man. There's no other way around that fact.
Instead of trying every desperate way you can with your sickeningly over-liberal contempt, how about looking at the facts.
Never try to rub me off as prejudice. you are not going to use that ridiculous notion to strong arm the argument.
With your idea, there really is no distinction between male and female. The Bible makes a distinction though, you can bet that. And everyone has a dominant sex, the rest is just opinion. And if you are arguing opinion, you really shouldn't be arguing at tall.
You have been fully refuted. Get over it. I'm not going to be deal with someone spread lies about me. And you better think before you post again because I will C&P all my previous arguments, consolidate them, and show you your straw man.
So you might as well chill with that crap. Nobody is going to point a finger at me. What in the Bible do you believe? You seem to have a problem or counter for anything biblical. Yes, I've noticed you around these threads.

In a forum where GLBT post freely about there rights, a lone poster stands his ground. Having watched and waited for so long and saw what he thought to be the end of this blip in the internets he attacks. With what he believes to be sound biblical arguments he heads fully into Rorschach mode and sets to take out the menace. Armed with that and his circular logic he tries to take back the for.ums. This is.

Bibleman with a vengeance! Fear his limited logic but endless aggression.

I just playin love wont you eat some bbq for the 4th with me? pwease?

 

[Zebra1552]

You are entitled to that opinion. I however continue to believe the creation was originally perfect even with mankind being granted free will which later brought imperfection upon all of creation.

But again, were getting off topic here. That's a topic for a different thread.

Once again, if you're going to address my post, address all of it. Keep taking snippets like you just did and I'll eventually just ignore you.

 

[jennimatts]

You're not talking about a person deciding with no real basis, you're just talking about a person who sees what they have as a condition and determine for themselves that they need help. Um... what's the difference, exactly?

In using the phrase "some random person", I'm saying any of 7 billion+ other people on the planet should not have a right to make such a life altering decision for an individual (ie. without their consent). It should be a decision for the individual and his/her doctors.

Transgendered people do not have a life threatening condition.

I didn't say we do (although it sometimes is not far from it). You asked...

So should we 'treat' other things that are arbitrarily decided to be 'not in God's plan', or is it just transgendered folk?

My answer was responding to your question about treating "other things", and I discussed the very limited situations where someone might be reasonably entitled to make a life altering decision on another persons behalf. In that regard, I said "The exceptions I have in mind involve parents whose children have severe deformities or doctors that recognize a life threatening condition that urgently needs treatment." These are "other things", and not related to transgendered people.

Then what right do you or anyone else have to dictate what a transgendered person does or doesn't do?

I don't. But, if I have the opportunity to encourage them to have faith in God, I will do so, and I don't want pious individuals getting in the way just because of their preconceived notions or prejudice.

 

[jennimatts]

Amber, you make me laugh!