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Transgender man gives birth after getting pregnant with FEMALE sperm donor

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muichimotsu

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This exactly.

No matter how you dress, no matter what surgeries you have or hormones you take, if you are born male with an XY chromosome, you are male and the same for women born with a XX chromosome.
Non-binary is a man-made concept, not based in reality. The only people who are truly not male and female are the intersex and this is a physical condition. Anything else is in a person mind. Mental disease is also a very real thing, but it does not change biological gender.

Genesis 5:2
He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them "Mankind" when they were created.

No one is claiming a change in chromosomes, but male and female are biological terms, man and woman are sociological and psychological. Androgyny is a concept applied to nonbinary, it's based in reality in the same vein as intersex people are demonstrably a fact, much as you'd like to ignore their existence.

And their "physical condition" is not something you get to dismiss as just that, same as you don't get to just add a qualifier and claim that sex just doesn't exist as a term, as if you're such a prude even saying the word is taboo. Sex is the biological normative term, not gender, that's demonstrably based in a historically conservative resistance to even alluding to intercourse, rather than actually being based in any linguistic precedent of etymology or usage in general discussion.

Prejudice and bigotry are a real thing too, it doesn't mean you get to repress people because they don't fit in the boxes you'd prefer to stick them in
 
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Kenny'sID

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If you're going to play victim here,

LOL!

If you're going to cop out and not do something so simple that almost all here do it for the sake of a little order, that up to you but trying to make it my problem just reinforces my thought that you need whatever excuse you can to not do the right thing.

Don't act like you've ever blessed this forum with an intelligent reply.

Come on Kenny, we all know you well enough.

Another post that has no relevance to the debate whatsoever.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Now, instead of doing the same you go the copout route. Claiming i failed to demonstrate so you cause a smoke screen in where i will have to endlessly explain what i present so that all the attention of ball being on your court is now diverted.

Cop outs and confusing the issue in order to direct away form an argument he realizes he can't win is the norm for him.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You're comparing serial killers to transgender folks?

You just killed your own credibility, as if the rest of your post didn't confirm it as well.

This is my last post to you. I don't have time for idiocy.

Was that thew best you could do to avoid replying?

Anyone that wanted to see, would have seen it wasn't the serial killer I was comparing, it was the situation, could have been any disturbed individual that had bad thoughts at an early age. But I guess you weren't prepared to deal with that or any other of my reasonable replies in that post or those to come, so....whatever excuse you choose is fine with me.
 
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DamianWarS

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The forum used to have a structure built in where I could quote each individual segment of a larger block of text, seems to be gone, that's partly why, but honestly, if you're just following relative to each segment, it's not that difficult either.
highlight the section and hit "+Quote" keep highlighting sections of interest and keep adding it to "+Quote". Then when you're ready click "Insert Quotes..." and it will show you all the individual quotes you selected. You can add them all, or rearrange them or add whatever you choose. Then add your comments in between each block. I typically do this to break apart paragraphs.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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That's a vast mischaracterization of liberty: the right to do things is not absolute when those things would infringe on other people's rights, but you don't have a right to not be offended or to be told you're right.

And no one is telling you to accept it, but your disagreement is at your peril in terms of the evidence being against you.
No. One absolutely has the right to do anything (legal and possible) that he wants, as a consenting adult but he does not possess the right to demand that everyone else capitulate to approval when it violates their own beliefs.

That's what freedom is.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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You keep conflating sex and gender, that doesn't make it so, even prior to the more recent understanding, gender was referring to masculine and feminine, not male and female

And being biologically male or female is not determinate as to whether you will necessarily identify as the gender identities correlated to them, man and woman. You see how faulty your logic is when it can be turned around to invalidate your whole argument?
I'm conflating them because they are the same thing. Check textbooks written before this new wave of political correctness. Check government forms that ask your age, your gender, etc. Masculine refers solely to male qualities. Feminine to female.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Biological reproduction is not what is being brought into question here, because gender is not claiming you can just get new reproductive organs or change your chromosomes, it's about presenting and conforming to a general idea of the opposite gender (which is not synonymous with sex apart from prudish norms of not talking about intercourse, as if that's the same as talking about genitals)

I never said it didn't, though methinks by old-fashioned way, you would mean the biological manner we see, because IVF is not really the same as coitus

You call yourself a Christian, you were not a Christian at birth, you didn't have a concept of such things. And your birth is not identical to your identity at all, otherwise I should be a basketball player because someone commented I had big hands when I was a baby and should do so. You're engaging in essentialist nonsense that reduces our identity to purely immutable qualities when that's not the majority of our existence in the slightest.

Pretty sure those aren't remotely the same, particularly because transgender people don't necessarily undergo surgery and such, so the latter is demonstrably harmful and probably reflective of delusion inversely like phantom limb pain. You might as well try to say a crossdresser must be trans because they dress like the opposite gender (they're not usually trans, btw)

Faith/relationship to God is formed and acquired; biologically male or female is immutable at conception. Done deal. Some things ARE immutable no matter how much fantasy in which one partakes. We ARE humans. It's immutable, but there are some disordered individuals who believe they are cats or other animals.

We ARE born male/man or female/woman, period. Intersex rarely happens, but it happens in the same way in which an extra appendage happens, or a twin is absorbed. Something went awry in the development process. We live in a sinful, disordered world and have poisoned the earth, water, air...it has effects over time and we are seeing it all over.

You aren't and should not be a basketball player because you have big hands. You are a basketball player if you possess the talent and opportunity and develop it. Your choice.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Exactly.
Most LGBT folks .... were the product of heterosexual parents.
Um, EVERYONE is the product of heterosexual parents. Every person on the planet is only here because he has a mother and a father.

People don't do the right thing. They bail on their families. They create other sorts of substitute families. But this is the reality.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Two people convinced me that transgender is real in every sense.

1) Bruce Jenner.
I read his book. He didn't suddenly wake up one day and decided he wanted to be a woman. He lived his life as a man, married several times, had 6 kids. Accomplished as an elite athlete. Yet, he felt unfulfilled.

2) Jazz Jennings.
As a two year old boy, she knew she was a girl. Her interview with Barbara Walters opened my eyes. She is now 19 and has successfully had her gender confirmation surgery.

The biggest condemnation comes from religious people. Seriously, whatever happened to "Jesus said to love everyone and not judge"? If you don't agree with changing your gender, don't change your gender. Then mind your own business. You have no right to tell someone else how they should live in order to be happy or "normal".

Accusing parents of "forcing" their kids to the opposite gender is beyond ridiculous.

You understand that one can feel "unfulfilled" for many reasons?

Agreed that religious people have no right to tell others how to live; they merely have the right to their own beliefs. Equally, those others have no right to demand compliance in the notion that the emperor really is beautifully dressed, under legal penalty.
 
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Kaon

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Years ago, this would have been a news article from the Onion News Network.

It shouldn't have been, like many things that sound too far-fetched to be true.

More than a decade ago it was "science" that sperm cells could be produced from bone marrow.

Will science render men unnecessary?

Babies from Bone Marrow

Bone stem cells turned into primitive sperm cells

Of course humans would extend this to real applications within two decades - once it became more acceptable culturally.
 
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Jezabella

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Um, EVERYONE is the product of heterosexual parents. Every person on the planet is only here because he has a mother and a father.

People don't do the right thing. They bail on their families. They create other sorts of substitute families. But this is the reality.
Well, come to think of it, that is not strictly correct.

Lots of LGBT people have biological children via IVF. And the children of LGBT people usually grow up to be straight.

So, one cannot generalize.
 
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grasping the after wind

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Pretty sure the two people involved were either biologically female, transman or otherwise, as they explained, didn't have sperm between them. Using female and woman interchangeably, while traditional, doesn't really work with reasonable distinctions made between sex and gender respectively

Both of them appear to be biologically female, but trans/nonbinary, meaning, since the technology to turn female material into the sperm so the fertilization can occur is still not workable, they had to get a donor from a transwoman (biologically male) to start the process

No the poster you quoted had it right. There was a man and a women that contributed to a pregnancy. The fact that they are both delusional does not interfere with the natural process.
 
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Cis.jd

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I gave you references, you're wanting something that's not realistic, because I'm not claiming they used the word as we understand it today, but it wasn't solely used to refer, mistakenly, to sex, but also was used to refer to kinds, particular in gender categories of languages, but also in terms of kinds in a more general sense, though that is more obscure a use. If you're literally going to ignore them as if they're not there, you're expecting too little of people who actually care to check

“unrealistic”? First of all, i get what you are saying. Gender now had a different meaning, however I don’t have any reason to believe the redefining of the word to be a spectrum to be fact.

We dont have gender being defined differently when we translate it to different languages and look up how it used nor can we see it in science books that date prior to the 2000s. This is what my argument (or relying on ancient books) is trying to show.

Why I don’t defend the sex-versus-gender distinction


"The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones; the collective attributes or traits associated with a particular sex, or determined as a result of one's sex. Also: a (male or female) group characterized in this way.

Read the OED carefully and notice what you quote is considered a secondary definition with only 5 citations. What is in A - the first definition of it? if you dont mind quoting.

gender, n. : Oxford English Dictionary


Not sure what you understand race to be, but it's not based in scientific fact because it's not a category that is remotely used anymore to refer to biological realities, the differences in terms of physical appearances not distinct in terms of biological racial categories, but ethnic categories or sociological racial categories if you insist on using the word. Methinks you might be confusing race as physical observations with race as a physical distinction between people of those races (black people are not genetically different from white people in any noticeable fashion that's not variations within human genetics as a whole, they are at best a subspecies the same as whites, Asians, etc, in the human species as a whole)

Race too has been redefined? When did this happen? So We cant distinct white people from black people anymore?

Also, please watch the video of the joe rogan podcast that I linked. You have to look at these things objectively seeing/listening to both sides and at the end of the day you will see that left isnt making any sense anymore.
 
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Jezabella

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No the poster you quoted had it right. There was a man and a women that contributed to a pregnancy. The fact that they are both delusional does not interfere with the natural process.
Is it possible that they are not delusional about who they are, and that those that judge them subjectively are the ones who are deluded because they are only able to think in black/white terms?

It's like Christians who think Muslims are delusional. Yet they think Christians are delusional. Unless you are walking their walk, you cannot possible know. And sometimes, it's just kinder to offer unconditional acceptance since at the end of the day, we are all human.
 
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SummerMadness

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I gave you references, you're wanting something that's not realistic, because I'm not claiming they used the word as we understand it today, but it wasn't solely used to refer, mistakenly, to sex, but also was used to refer to kinds, particular in gender categories of languages, but also in terms of kinds in a more general sense, though that is more obscure a use. If you're literally going to ignore them as if they're not there, you're expecting too little of people who actually care to check

From OED, like I did before, uses of this definition are included as citations, you literally cannot ignore this unless you're intentionally obfuscating

"The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones; the collective attributes or traits associated with a particular sex, or determined as a result of one's sex. Also: a (male or female) group characterized in this way.
1945 Amer. Jrnl. Psychol. 58 228 In the grade-school years, too, gender (which is the socialized obverse of sex) is a fixed line of demarkation, the qualifying terms being ‘feminine’ and ‘masculine’.
1950 Amer. Jrnl. Psychol. 63 312 It [sc. Margaret Mead's Male and Female] informs the reader upon ‘gender’ as well as upon ‘sex’, upon masculine and feminine rôles as well as upon male and female and their reproductive functions.
1968 Life 21 June 89 When the separation of fashions according to gender began to vanish, retailers discovered a bonanza."

~~~~

The pronouns in terms of the basics are not what's in debate, because the distinction is using them to refer to a biologically male person with the feminine pronouns because they're a transwoman, the new pronouns are a whole other discussion in terms of linguistic history I'm not going into because it's not germane to the primary aspect of gender as supposedly super recent when, no, it's been a concept as far back as the 50s in psychology regarding gender identity.

~~~~


Not sure what you understand race to be, but it's not based in scientific fact because it's not a category that is remotely used anymore to refer to biological realities, the differences in terms of physical appearances not distinct in terms of biological racial categories, but ethnic categories or sociological racial categories if you insist on using the word. Methinks you might be confusing race as physical observations with race as a physical distinction between people of those races (black people are not genetically different from white people in any noticeable fashion that's not variations within human genetics as a whole, they are at best a subspecies the same as whites, Asians, etc, in the human species as a whole)

~~~~

Not sure where you get the notion that I approved of all the examples you used and I also pointed out that your argument has the issue, I'm not claiming they're all equal in the first place, you're equivocating and committing category errors to remotely suggest transage or such is comparable to transgender as having any validity or that it would be approved by all people. I'm not putting a political label on myself in this discussion, it's hardly relevant to make this that kind of issue when your concern is supposedly with its truth, not the ideological components that are separate from the reality of the phenomenon itself.

If you want to POINT OUT the hypocrisy, instead of just claiming it's self evident, by all means point it out instead of insisting you've "won" the argument and stomp off like a child
QFT

I don't get why folks are getting mad about a person bringing life into this world that they will love and raise to be a respectful, productive human being.
 
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Rebecca4Christ

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You appear to miss a great deal, which is why this is going to be my last post to you. I have time for people who actually try to read and grasp what I am saying, since I give them that respect.




In response to THIS from you


I responded with THIS, to show you how your most fervent belief is NOT black/white, even though you choose to believe it.



You conveniently deflected from it.
I am not into playing games. BYE Felicia.

Note that I have bolded my comments in this post so you don't miss them.



 
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Kaon

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It shouldn't have been, like many things that sound too far-fetched to be true.

More than a decade ago it was "science" that sperm cells could be produced from bone marrow.

Will science render men unnecessary?

Babies from Bone Marrow

Bone stem cells turned into primitive sperm cells

Of course humans would extend this to real applications within two decades - once it became more acceptable culturally.

No the poster you quoted had it right. There was a man and a women that contributed to a pregnancy. The fact that they are both delusional does not interfere with the natural process.


I know this is a lot to ask, but do you have a paragraph marker where it clearly specifies one of them was born male?
 
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