Transcript of Kirk's killer's messages has been revealed

[RocksInMyHead]

But with that issue in particular (specifically, the advocacy surrounding it), if he was hanging around in those types of advocacy circles,

That's a big "if".

 

[Oompa Loompa]

There is nothing, yet, that shows that he is a any more than leaning left, as his mother said. You guys are showing your prejudicial beliefs. The only thing that you have is he fell in love with a person transitioning into a woman.

You have no evidence to support that claim.

Just what makes him gay? True, the roommate is still legally a man but we don't know if sex had anything to do with it. He clearly approves of the guy transitioning into a woman, so after the process was finished, they would have legally been a male and female.

Wow. If you actually believe everything you just stated, you are woefully uninformed on this topic. Do you live in a different country, like Europe of something? Lack of media coverage may explain a lot. Anyway, may I suggest going to the thread about finding the shooter and reading through it? Much of the evidence is provided there. I just dont want to go off topic trying to explaine everything.

 

[tampasteve]

I believe there were some assassination attempts on Hitler by people who were much more moderate.

And I think theres similar instances in history when extremists or tyrants get into power.

ROFL, sure, because these are comparable situations.

(Is it OK to admit that you were wrong?)

Except it is abundantly clear that I am not.

 

[durangodawood]

ROFL, sure, because these are comparable situations.

Those situations I mentioned absolutely fit the criteria you noted of moderates assassinating people, or trying to.

Dont go trying to retroactively adjust your claim.

 

[Servus]

Every assassin fits neatly into "left" or "right" ideology? I'm gonna need some receipts on that.

It depends on what the assassin's motive was.

John Hinkley's motivation was impressing an actress.

Matthew Crooks motive remains unknown.

Tyler Robinson's motivation was:

- Political and ideological differences.

- Robinson is reported to have become more politically left‑leaning over the past year, especially around issues of LGBTQ+ and trans rights.

- His father, roommates, and family reportedly noted that Robinson disagreed strongly with Charlie Kirk’s views (which are conservative, often critical of trans activism etc.).

- Hatred / reaction to perceived “hate” from Charlie Kirk.

- Robinson allegedly sent messages saying “I had enough of his hatred” and “Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Prosecutors point to those as expressing motive.

- A note under the keyboard said: “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take it".

And that's just tidbits from the preliminary investigation. From what I've heard from law enforcement, there's a lot more waiting to be revealed after the investigation is concluded. There are even hints that others might be directly involved.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That's a big "if".

It may be a big "if"...

But he ended up with the conclusion that "trans rights are worth killing for" and "Kirk's statements against it pose such a huge threat, that extreme measures are warranted"... you typically don't get radicalized to that degree from the dialog in the normal/casual social groups.


Plus, a key distinction between issues like this (vs. other political issues) is that when a political position is radical to the degree where it's calling for massive dismantling and overhaul of norms, speech, and institutions in order to facilitate an objective, it typically doesn't exist alone without being accompanied by some other pretty radical or at least hyper-partisan viewpoints.


For example, "Joe has the radical libertarian position of legalizing all drugs with no age restrictions, but his positions on all the other issues are right down the middle" isn't a commonly encountered situation.

 

[tampasteve]

Those situations I mentioned absolutely fit the criteria you noted of moderates assassinating people, or trying to.

Dont go trying to retroactively adjust your claim.

I'm not retroactively claiming anything. The conversation is about the assassination of a man that is not anywhere close the the depths of depravity and evil as the man widely recognized as one of, if not the most evil humans ever. Your example is void based on the figure used.

 

[durangodawood]

I'm not retroactively claiming anything. The conversation is about the assassination of a man that is not anywhere close the the depths of depravity and evil as the man widely recognized as one of, if not the most evil humans ever. Your example is void based on the figure used.

Your claim was broader than just Mr Kirk or similar targets. Its right there for everyone to read. I'm fine if you want to adjust your claim going forward. But its not on me to fix it for you.

Assassination has been in the toolkit of moderates from time to time.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

It depends on what the assassin's motive was.

John Hinkley's motivation was impressing an actress.

Matthew Crooks motive remains unknown.

Tyler Robinson's motivation was:

- Political and ideological differences.

- Robinson is reported to have become more politically left‑leaning over the past year, especially around issues of LGBTQ+ and trans rights.

- His father, roommates, and family reportedly noted that Robinson disagreed strongly with Charlie Kirk’s views (which are conservative, often critical of trans activism etc.).

- Hatred / reaction to perceived “hate” from Charlie Kirk.

- Robinson allegedly sent messages saying “I had enough of his hatred” and “Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Prosecutors point to those as expressing motive.

- A note under the keyboard said: “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take it".

And that's just tidbits from the preliminary investigation. From what I've heard from law enforcement, there's a lot more waiting to be revealed after the investigation is concluded. There are even hints that others might be directly involved.

Agreed. The liberals keep pointing to his family and his upbringing to somehow demonstrate that Robinson was not a hard leftist. But clearly, with the preponderance of the evidence, everything he did was intended to show his absolute rejection his family's religion and politics. It was all just one giant middle finger to everything his family stood for. If conservatives are to blame for anything, it was Robinson's father taking the time to teach his son how to shoot.

 

[tampasteve]

Your claim was broader than just Mr Kirk or similar targets. Its right there for everyone to read. I'm fine if you want to adjust your claim going forward. But its not on me to fix it for you.

No — my claim is directly about Mr. Kirk, or individuals like him. That is precisely the subject of this thread. Whether you choose to believe me or not is irrelevant; the facts speak for themselves to anyone reading with even a shred of sense. The “suspect” in this case is unmistakably, undeniably, and without question not a moderate.

 

[Freth]

Young undeveloped minds are highly impressionable. The mother's statement says a year, but one has to wonder how long ago he started absorbing ideas that would lead him to the conclusion that it was okay to kill Charlie Kirk.

 

[Yarddog]

Moderates don't assassinate people. It is OK to admit that you were wrong.

So, only far right and far left assassinate people.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

It depends on what the assassin's motive was.

John Hinkley's motivation was impressing an actress.

Matthew Crooks motive remains unknown.

Exactly. As I said, the premise that "moderates do not assassinate people" is false.

Tyler Robinson's motivation was:

- Political and ideological differences.

- Robinson is reported to have become more politically left‑leaning over the past year, especially around issues of LGBTQ+ and trans rights.

- His father, roommates, and family reportedly noted that Robinson disagreed strongly with Charlie Kirk’s views (which are conservative, often critical of trans activism etc.).

- Hatred / reaction to perceived “hate” from Charlie Kirk.

- Robinson allegedly sent messages saying “I had enough of his hatred” and “Some hate can’t be negotiated out.” Prosecutors point to those as expressing motive.

- A note under the keyboard said: “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take it".

And that's just tidbits from the preliminary investigation. From what I've heard from law enforcement, there's a lot more waiting to be revealed after the investigation is concluded. There are even hints that others might be directly involved.

I see ideological conflict, for sure, as being a motive here. Specifically, ideological conflict with Charlie Kirk. I don't think that's an inherently political conflict though.

 

[durangodawood]

No — my claim is directly about Mr. Kirk, or individuals like him. That is precisely the subject of this thread. Whether you choose to believe me or not is irrelevant; the facts speak for themselves to anyone reading with even a shred of sense. The “suspect” in this case is unmistakably, undeniably, and without question not a moderate.

If your point was about just this killing you should have said "a moderate didnt assassinate Mr Kirk".

Instead you felt there was a point to be made in going big with "moderates don't assassinate people." And thats where you went wrong.

As for "individuals like him," you never said anything about that in your post. We're not mind readers here. If you mean it, say it.

 

[Yarddog]

Being so trans-rights oriented that he would be willing to shoot a guy for speaking against it doesn't sound terribly moderate to me.

Why? Being liberal, moderate, or conservative is about where one stands on political issues. If you take the test, you will be asked to respond to where you stand on many different issues. You may agree with Democrats on half and with Republicans on half. That means that you are moderate.

That has nothing to do with your ability to kill someone for their stance on issues. In Robinson's case, we have a guy who was a conservative who fell in love with a person in the midst of transitioning into a female. He killed Kirk for his opposition to trans individuals.

Trump being a fan of the Village People is very different than trans-rights advocacy.

I agree but many people on this forum don't see the difference between gay and trans.

As where, someone liking a song made by a gay person is actually a deprioritizing that aspect, because they're seeing the person as a musician first and foremost.

Many on this forum would disagree. I've been debating them for years.

 

[tampasteve]

If your point was about just this killing you should have said "a moderate didnt assassinate Mr Kirk".

Instead you felt there was a point to be made in going big with "moderates don't assassinate people."

Thats where you went wrong. As for "individuals like him," you never said anything about that in your post. We're not mind readers here. If you mean it, say it.

That's a valid point, I should have been more specific rather than firing it off so quickly.

 

[durangodawood]

That's a valid point, I should have been more specific rather than firing it off so quickly.

Nooo no no we're supposed to keep fighting about this until next week!

 

[tampasteve]

Nooo no no we're supposed to keep fighting about this until next week!

Haha, it seems that way usually.

 

[Yarddog]

Wow. If you actually believe everything you just stated, you are woefully uninformed on this topic.

No, I have actually been doing this for years and am well read on the subject.

Do you live in a different country, like Europe of something? Lack of media coverage may explain a lot. Anyway, may I suggest going to the thread about finding the shooter and reading through it?

I have read many, many articles on this subject.

Much of the evidence is provided there. I just dont want to go off topic trying to explaine everything.

You don't have to. Stay tuned. The investigation is far from over and no one knows what may be uncovered. I suggest that you read up on the psychology of LGBTQ individuals.

 

[Servus]

If your point was about just this killing you should have said "a moderate didnt assassinate Mr Kirk".

Instead you felt there was a point to be made in going big with "moderates don't assassinate people." And thats where you went wrong.

As for "individuals like him," you never said anything about that in your post. We're not mind readers here. If you mean it, say it.

Oh come on, you knew what he meant and ran with a slight error in grammar to build an inapplicable gotcha counter argument, tisk tisk.