Transcript of Kirk's killer's messages has been revealed

[Oompa Loompa]

Yes, but I haven't seen any that call for genocide.

If a person was born male and named Kevin..

Kevin says, I feel like I'm in the wrong body, I feel like I'm actually a woman, and will be changing my name to Allison, and I expect you to address me as such and affirm what I feel is true.

There's a big difference between saying:
"Sorry Kevin, but I don't agree with that, I think what you're actually dealing with is a mental health issue, and I'm not going to be an active participant in this"

...vs someone saying
"We need to eugenically eliminate Kevin and everyone like Kevin"


However, some activists have portrayed it as if the two positions are comparable.

And do so based on, what I feel, is the flawed premise that "If you don't go along with what and affirm I want and abandon your own beliefs, and that makes me so upset that I kill myself, that's basically tantamount to you killing me"... it would often get framed as things like "you can either have an alive daughter or a dead son"


You didn't see that kind of pervasive emotional blackmail with the gay rights movement back in the day. They weren't saying "you not only have to support gay marriage, you have to say it's a good thing, and if you don't, I'll kill myself and it'll be your fault". Their position seemed to be more of a "look, we just want the right to get married and not face housing and employment discrimination, you don't have to like it or even pretend to like it, we weren't planning on inviting you to the wedding anyway"

And while their advocacy process to get those things may have not happened overnight (which seems to be expectation that younger activists have these days), I would say their approach was much more durable (evidenced by the fact that the majority of the population doesn't have much of an issue with it now...and according to public polling, even over half of the party that's labelled "the anti-LGBT party" supports it now.

Trans people believe their is a trans genocide because other liberal leftist told them there was a trans genocide. Some would call this "fear mongering."

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Limiting access to gender-affirming care does that effectively.

That would be laughable if it wasn't so absurd. It is lies and liberal rhetoric like this that got Charlie Kirk killed.

 

[FireDragon76]

That would be laughable if it wasn't so absurd. It is lies and liberal rhetoric like this that got Charlie Kirk killed.

So in other words, if you don't agree with anti-trans rhetoric, you're no better than a murderer. Which doesn't stand up to scrutiny, of course.

Limiting access to trans-affirming care effectively limits the kinds of lives that are possible and it takes away human agency. That is analogous to eugenics, in the sense that it seeks to eliminate certain kinds of lived experiences. It's more properly in the domain of biopolitics and necropolitics.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Yes, but I haven't seen any that call for genocide.

Depends on how you define genocide - people generally aren't going to come out and say "Yeah, we're doing a genocide!" because those words have Implications. The UN defines it thusly:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

1. Killing members of the group;
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Now, you could argue that trans people don't constitute a "national, ethnical, religious, or racial group," and thus cannot, technically, be the subject of a genocide, but you're the one who introduced the term, so we're using it.

If we consider trans people to be a group that can be subjected to genocide, then I could make a solid argument for two or three of the five genocidal acts being advocated against them. Incessant bullying, denigration, othering, and claims of non-existence could fall under the category of "causing serious bodily or mental harm", especially when you consider that trans people are significantly more likely to be physically attacked. Banning transgender care could fall under "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction." And, this is a bit of a stretch, I'll admit, but blocking minors specifically from care could be interpreted as "forcibly transferring children to another group." But only one of those five conditions is required to be a genocide.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Limiting access to gender-affirming care does that effectively.

It does not.

A) Nobody is stopping adults from getting whichever cosmetic surgeries they want. The restriction efforts are geared towards the subject of minors.

Even the 'quite-conservative' Ben Shapiro acknowledges as much

"I'm not in favor banning it for adults, but I'm in favor of banning it for Children because that's adults making decisions for Children before they're old enough to consent to permanently life altering decision... if you're an adult and you want a sex change surgery because you think it'll make you feel better, go for it, maybe it will maybe it wont, it's a free country"

-- plus, the most common defense I hear is "nobody is doing this for children, that's scaremongering". So if adults are allowed to do it, and nobody was planning on doing it for children anyway, what's the issue? (unless the issue is a demand that people "say the thing" and abandon their own views in favor of affirmation of someone else's viewpoint)


B) It's a tough sell to claim that the difference between "genocide" and "non-genocide" hinges on whether or not someone embraces a very new set of treatment methodologies (that yield mixed results) that weren't really a thing until about (figuratively) 5 minutes ago in recent history. And not only that, embracing a "fast-track" approach to it.

Hormone Therapy - First Visit

What to expect on your first visit for gender affirming hormone therapy.

www.plannedparenthood.org

What to Expect on Your First Visit and Beyond​

Before you visit, please call to make an appointment and request gender affirming hormone therapy.

In most cases your clinician will be able to prescribe hormones the same day as your first visit. No letter from a mental health provider is required.


This isn't some fringe clinic operating out of a strip mall in Tijuana, this a major recognized medical institution saying "we can give you hormones on your first visit with no mental health referral"

I don't think a person opposing this kind of stuff warrants labels like "genocidal"

 

[Oompa Loompa]

So in other words, if you don't agree with anti-trans rhetoric, you're no better than a murderer. Which doesn't stand up to scrutiny, of course.

Limiting access to trans-affirming care effectively limits the kinds of lives that are possible and it takes away human agency. That is analogous to eugenics, in the sense that it seeks to eliminate certain kinds of lived experiences. It's more properly in the domain of biopolitics and necropolitics.

I am not even going to entertain a discussion with you to explain why preventing someone from self mutilation is nowhere analogous to eugenics. It is an example of the woke liberal ideological ideas that will be shoved into obscurity.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It does not.

A) Nobody is stopping adults from getting whichever cosmetic surgeries they want. The restriction efforts are geared towards the subject of minors.

That's not true. Efforts are also underway to restrict it anywhere the government would have a hand in paying for it:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2025/05/23/medicaid-transgender-transition-care-bill/

https://archive.ph/slhha

I don't know the current status of these efforts, but they certainly exist.

 

[wing2000]

The concerning part of that transcript is that there's a kid saying that some differences "can’t be negotiated out".

Everything can be negotiated out with enough time and patience.

....exactly.

Why did this young man think negotiation was not an option? Instant gratification may be part of it...

 

[rjs330]

I usually go by: "You are transgender if you have a stronger affinity to your mental construct of some other gender than to the one commonly associated with your sex." It is is perhaps not perfect, but I find it useful. It also allows us to talk about gender outside of sex, which for some are not connected.

What does stronger affinity to some other gender mean? What other gender? If you are a biological male What other gender would you have a stronger affinity to?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

That's not true. Efforts are also underway to restrict it anywhere the government would have a hand in paying for it:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2025/05/23/medicaid-transgender-transition-care-bill/

https://archive.ph/slhha

I don't know the current status of these efforts, but they certainly exist.

I pray that in the future, transition surgeries will be viewed with similar horror and disgust as hemiglossectomies were used to treat stuttering and trepanning to treat headaches.

My point is that I am not arguing that people are not trying to prevent transgender surgeries, there is an active effort to ban them and I hope they do.

 

[rjs330]

In case you missed it, the post to which I was responding said this:

"...if I discovered that my party celebrated murdering political opponents too"

The key part here is the celebrating. That noose, and the people chanting around it, absolutely were celebrating the murdering of a political opponent. That the murder was merely anticipated and, arguably, attempted doesn't make this any less of a celebration of murder and political violence.

What murder were they celebrating? You do realize we are talking about celebrating a REAL political assassination correct? A man was ACTUALLY killed. So who was killed?

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I pray that in the future, transition surgeries will be viewed with similar horror and disgust as hemiglossectomies were used to treat stuttering and trepanning to treat headaches.

Maybe they will - but if they are, that will mean that we will have found better and more effective treatments.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Why did this young man think negotiation was not an option? Instant gratification may be part of it...

I think that's a big part of it with the younger generations.

Instant gratification is a good descriptor. I refer to it as "Amazon 2-day shipping culture, anything I want, I should have by Thursday".

We've seen it happen with various forms of younger-led activism.

And that backlash isn't even always aimed at the opposing party, even Democratic/Progressive leaders have felt that backlash when they're "not moving quickly enough"

We all saw Greta's "2030 net zero blah blah blah" speech (and not I'm not mocking her, she actually said "blah blah blah" to mock liberal politicians)
We watched Jacob Frey get booed when he didn't agree to an aggressive timeline for a "defund the police movement"
Jenny Durkan caught some heat and had protestors show up at her house and we didn't agree to "overnight reforms"

And if you see the rhetoric that goes along with that, it's that same "existential threat" theme I mentioned before.

"Climate change is going to kill us all and they don't care"
"Black people are being killed police and they don't care"

When in reality, it was just the adults in the room saying "Whoa guys, we understand and share your concerns about climate and police brutality - we agree with you, but these aren't 'flip of a switch'/'turn key' solutions we can just implement by next Thursday, some of this stuff is going to take time"


You consider that level of impatience, and how that led them to treat people (with hostile rhetoric) in their own party who agree with them... now apply that to people who actually disagree with them and provide pushback, and sprinkle in the fact that the people pushing back are getting labelled as fascists.

It's a powder keg.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I think that's a big part of it with the younger generations.

It's not just younger generations - it seems to have become an integral component of US culture, if not the entire Western world. A mass shooting occurs, and people think we should immediately know the killer's motivation. People get suspicious when it takes a couple days to count election results. Predictions are made about the course of the nation, and they're dismissed as lies because they haven't come to pass in just a couple weeks or months. And so on.

 

[rjs330]

I mean, you have seen the opinions about transgender people that have been expressed even here on these (relatively moderated and mild) forums, have you not?

I know you can't say on this forum "we can't win and transgenderism is so bad tgat we have to kill them", but has anyone even come close to saying or hinting that is necessary? Once again we are dealing with a GIGANTIC difference here.

Saying that someone is suffering from a mental illness and they need help is not even remotely close to, these people are full of hate and are so dangerous the only way to eradicate that is to kill them.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What murder were they celebrating? You do realize we are talking about celebrating a REAL political assassination correct? A man was ACTUALLY killed. So who was killed?

You've been made aware that elements of the J6 crowd were chanting "hang mike pence". I know this, because you've commented on it at least three times in the last couple years.

If you choose to believe the delusion that it was all made up despite us having video of it is on you and not something I can help with.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Maybe they will - but if they are, that will mean that we will have found better and more effective treatments.

Like psychotherapy? What a great idea!

 

[Oompa Loompa]

You've been made aware that elements of the J6 crowd were chanting "hang mike pence". I know this, because you've commented on it at least three times in the last couple years.

If you choose to believe the delusion that it was all made up despite us having video of it is on you and not something I can help with.

The only person killed in that event was a conservative, and liberals vilified her and celebrated her death too. When are you going to get the clue that J6 what about ism is not going to work anymore? The country is done with it.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Like psychotherapy? What a great idea!

It's been tried. Clearly it's not effective, or it would be the standard.

Much like medieval physicians who practiced trepanning had no concept of ibuprofen or those who performed hemiglossectomies had never heard of speech therapy, if anything ever succeeds medical transition as a superior treatment for gender dysphoria, it will be something that modern science has not conceived of yet.

 

[rjs330]

Limiting access to gender-affirming care does that effectively.

No it doesn't. No one is being wiped out and no one is stopping them from being trans. In fact no one is stopping adults from gender-affirming medicalization. The science on this is clear. Gender affirming medicalization has not been proven to be effective. But adults still have access.

The only stoppage has been for children. And there are legitimate
, medical and scientific reasons to do so. Thus has been pointed out ad nauseum. Once a child has reached adulthood and still wants to transition medically they can.

You are oart of the problem when you say such nonsense. This is why people take this stuff and go shoot someone because when you say they are effectively being erased its effectively a genocide, then you have put people in the crosshairs of an assassins bullet.