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I did say join the club.Everyone hears how hard it is to be a woman yet overlook that men also have it hard. Most people in prison are men, most homeless are men, most victims of violent crime are men, most who commit suicide are men, the draft affects only men, workplace deaths, false rape allegations, family court bias, lose custody, lack of male resources for domestic violence, lack of resources for single fathers, who do worse in school and drop out are men. So generally speaking men have it worse in some areas and women have it worse in others. Yet today men are overlooked and masculinity is considered toxic.
Honestly, what scares me 100 times worse than Putin on a horse, or masculinity in general, is the authoritative role that a so-called "Karen" takes up. I've seen some pretty bad videos under the title of "Karen's behaving badly", that really take the cake.
masculinity is considered toxic.
There is such a thing as healthy masculinity. But in order to talk about that, we need to be able to also identify and talk about its opposite.
Hello @Krav Maga,What are your thoughts on society bashing toxic masculinity yet leave out toxic femininity as today people want to shun only masculinity. This gets shoved on children especially boys. Just like you hear how bad it is to be a misogynist, but yet misandry ideals are alright in today’s society.
By today’s standards many men of the Bible would be considered in the box of “toxic”. Is this alright?
Do we avoid sin better by talking about sin or by talking about righteous living? If we haven't taught how to live righteously, can we live righteously by talking only about sin?
I take your point, and I agree that we also have to talk about what is good and healthy. But if, for example, we can't talk about domestic violence, about rape, about the many ways "toxic masculinity" plays out, then I think we're at best acting as if we're in denial about a whole lot that is really wrong with out society.
Should we really not talk about things like rape culture, lest it hurt the feelings of some men? Meanwhile, leaving the fact that one in five women is raped over her lifetime unnamed and unchallenged? Where's the justice in that?
You don't teach a young boy, "Don't rape," You teach a young boy the positive: "Protect women from bad men who rape."
Ugh, no!
First up, it's not just "bad" men who rape. That kind of myth feeds the problem. I have known, for example, of young men who had sex with women too inebriated to consent, who didn't even realise what they had done was rape, because they didn't think of themselves in that light. They thought rape was something evil men did when they dragged a stranger off a dark street, not what they did with their dates.
We do need to actively teach respect and consent. But we also need to talk about the shadow side of the whole thing. The "Don't be that guy" campaign was shown to be very successful in actually lowering rates of rape, by tackling the issue head on.
The Poe is strong in this one.I hate toxic femininity where women want to act like men or pretend like they don't need a man. I also hate how society is making boys and men too soft. I can't stand a soft man. That's part of the attraction for me towards men, their masculinity. Being like a real man. Not so soft and feminine like. I'm not talking about crying, real men can cry, I mean other stuff. I want to shout to the soft ones "be a man!" LOL
I hate when women try to say we can do everything a man can. No we can't, and we're not supposed to.
It's very toxic to try to force women to be something God did not make us to be and toxic to try to make men to be something God did not make them to be.
Modern society wants to eliminate everything unique about each gender and make everyone to be some kind of androgynous genderless being. Yuk.
And toxic masculinity is the cause for much of that. Take positive masculine traits like physical strength and courage, pervert them and you have violent crime perpetrated by men. That’s toxic masculinity. Expecting all men to fight in wars whether or not they consent because "that’s what men do" - toxic masculinity. The belief that men can’t parent as well as women and must work the hardest and make money to have value in society - toxic masculinity. I think it’s better to say that these negative tropes and expectations are toxic masculinity than to say that they are authentic masculinity.Everyone hears how hard it is to be a woman yet overlook that men also have it hard. Most people in prison are men, most homeless are men, most victims of violent crime are men, most who commit suicide are men, the draft affects only men, workplace deaths, false rape allegations, family court bias, lose custody, lack of male resources for domestic violence, lack of resources for single fathers, who do worse in school and drop out are men. So generally speaking men have it worse in some areas and women have it worse in others. Yet today men are overlooked and masculinity is considered toxic.
sorry, but your outlook is feminine.
You teach a man to be good, and reflect that the opposite of what is good is bad.
Right now, boys are not being taught to be good men, only to not be bad men. But you can't effectively teach "not to be," you must teach "be."
If I may, with all due respect ,enibration is no excuse. These boys have not lived under a rock. They know exactly what they are doing in hopes of getting away with it. Having sex with a girl who has passed out is wrong and "no" does not mean "yes". These boys may not be evil but they are knowingly committing an evil act. I don't see the difference.Ugh, no!
First up, it's not just "bad" men who rape. That kind of myth feeds the problem. I have known, for example, of young men who had sex with women too inebriated to consent, who didn't even realise what they had done was rape, because they didn't think of themselves in that light. They thought rape was something evil men did when they dragged a stranger off a dark street, not what they did with their dates.
We do need to actively teach respect and consent. But we also need to talk about the shadow side of the whole thing. The "Don't be that guy" campaign was shown to be very successful in actually lowering rates of rape, by tackling the issue head on.
If I may, with all due respect ,enibration is no excuse.
These boys may not be evil but they are knowingly committing an evil act. I don't see the difference.
Thanks for the clarification!I agree!
The point I was making was that framing rape as something "bad men" do means that ordinary guys don't see themselves as rapists, even when they are.
This TED talk might be hard listening (it discusses rape) but is one of the most powerful accounts of that I've come across. Our story of rape and reconciliation
It's not a surprise that there are organizations like Men Going Their Own Way in this society today. I personally don't think that avoidance of women is the answer, but if you read through their platform, they do have a lot of pertinent points; men are considered predatory. Men do get the worst end in divorce settlements. Men do end up losing everything they acquired in the marriage, including property, assets, access to their own children, etc. Men are expected to descend into indentured servitude to support ex-wives with lavish tastes.
And yet, in too many cases, women complain that they can't find men who are willing to commit, who are ready to pledge their lives to a woman, men who will take the step to propose marriage and family. But in too many of those same cases, who can blame them? Why would any man want to take the chance at losing everything if a marriage goes to pieces after five or eight years?
The problem is that we have trivialized marriage, made divorce too easy, penalized too many ordinary people for the behavior of the worst ones, and discarded the traditional, God-established roles for male and female. Once you pull out that underpinning, the whole structure is bound to collapse.
Doesn't really feel that good does it. Women have suffered for centuries and still do. Join the club!
And toxic masculinity is the cause for much of that. Take positive masculine traits like physical strength and courage, pervert them and you have violent crime perpetrated by men. That’s toxic masculinity. Expecting all men to fight in wars whether or not they consent because "that’s what men do" - toxic masculinity. The belief that men can’t parent as well as women and must work the hardest and make money to have value in society - toxic masculinity. I think it’s better to say that these negative tropes and expectations are toxic masculinity than to say that they are authentic masculinity.
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