Total Modesty

[katautumn]

I know in many Christian circles, there is alot of emphasis placed upon the modesty of feminine dress. Each church has it's standards. Some churches feel pants on women is acceptable so long as crack isn't showing or they are not skin tight. Other churches completely condemn women wearing pants and enforce a dress code consisting of ankle-length, flowing skirts and no tops that cling or are low-cut in the front or back. Sometimes sleeveless tops are also considered immodest. The standard is sometimes along the lines of "you should be dressed in a manner in which is it clear from 100 yards away that you are a female, but not in a manner in which your female form can be distinguishable" (in other words, your apparrel should be feminine in appearance, but your female "assets" should not be visible).

In addition to a dress code of modesty, many church feel that total feminine modesty is essential. This can include issues such as prohibiting women from dyeing their hair, laughing or speaking too loudly, having a boisterous attitude, having insanely long or brightly polished fingernails, wearing lots of jewelry, wearing bright-colored clothing, wearing high-heeled or attention-grabbing footware, being assertive or bubbly, being opinionated, etc. I have also heard that hair length can be immodest. The Bible says that a woman should have a hair style that makes her easily distinguishable from men, so that would mean a cropped hairstyle is immodest; however, I have also heard it said that really long hair is also immodest as hair that reaches down to a woman's rear end will draw attention to that area of her body, causing the potential for a brother to stumble into lust.

What, to you, would be the ideal, Bible-based code of total modesty for a woman?

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

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[tapero]

I know in many Christian circles, there is alot of emphasis placed upon the modesty of feminine dress. Each church has it's standards. Some churches feel pants on women is acceptable so long as crack isn't showing or they are not skin tight. Other churches completely condemn women wearing pants and enforce a dress code consisting of ankle-length, flowing skirts and no tops that cling or are low-cut in the front or back. Sometimes sleeveless tops are also considered immodest. The standard is sometimes along the lines of "you should be dressed in a manner in which is it clear from 100 yards away that you are a female, but not in a manner in which your female form can be distinguishable" (in other words, your apparrel should be feminine in appearance, but your female "assets" should not be visible).

In addition to a dress code of modesty, many church feel that total feminine modesty is essential. This can include issues such as prohibiting women from dyeing their hair, laughing or speaking too loudly, having a boisterous attitude, having insanely long or brightly polished fingernails, wearing lots of jewelry, wearing bright-colored clothing, wearing high-heeled or attention-grabbing footware, being assertive or bubbly, being opinionated, etc. I have also heard that hair length can be immodest. The Bible says that a woman should have a hair style that makes her easily distinguishable from men, so that would mean a cropped hairstyle is immodest; however, I have also heard it said that really long hair is also immodest as hair that reaches down to a woman's rear end will draw attention to that area of her body, causing the potential for a brother to stumble into lust.

What, to you, would be the ideal, Bible-based code of total modesty for a woman?

Hi, I can tell you this. We are free in Christ. We are no longer slaves. Legalism hurts a persons spirit.

The bible describes how we are to dress, but it was talking to a certain period of time and dealing with issues of the day.

I think a general common sense approach to modesty for a woman is good. However, there are Christians who dress 'immodestly' and see no harm in it. Let the Lord convict them if they need be convicted about it.

I think any church that tells someone how to dress is legalistic. Unless they are bound by the rules of a particular church, or a membership thing, which I still think would be strange, it is the Lord to convict and change us in all regards.

I don't mean to put down sisters who dress very modestly and do certain things, like not braid their hair, wear jewelry etc. I'm not putting them down. They do this because it is their understanding of what they should do. It is okay, because for them, their conscience would not allow them otherwise. We should always go with the conviction we feel.

I know I'm not really answering your question directly, but just want to convey that we are free in Christ, we are not to use that freedom in wrong ways, but I believe that the Lord does the work in a persons life.

If a woman comes in dressed immodestly and the church tells her to change the way she dresses, and she leaves and never comes back and never seeks God, then woe to that church.

If she decides to go with the flow and dress more modestly, they have helped to change her on the outside, but what she needs really, or maybe, is an inward change, a change of the heart.

Sorry I've gone on,
Take care,
Tapero

 

[Robinsegg]

Much of the text on dress/hairstyle is based on culture and time. Here's the basic principles I see in Scripture:
1. Women should not look like protitutes (prostitutes at that time and place wore short hair).
2. Women should not leave their chests exposed as men do (there was a problem with women doing this in following male pursuits such as hunting).
3. We should view our beauty from the inside (heart issues) out instead of simply trying to allure others with our physical looks (thus not braiding the hair or wearing jewelry was spoken of).

As far as causing men to stumble:
I'd say don't wear something that specifically emphasizes a lot of bare skin, and don't wear clothes that totally invite attention to "sexual" areas of the body (don't wear dresses you have to tape to keep in place, don't wear skirts so short nothing is left to the imagination).
There's also much to be said about a woman's attitude. If a woman is constantly hanging on men and dresses provacatively, one might be pardoned for assuming something about her character.

Does that help?
Rachel

 

[kopilo]

Personally it is not someone's body that is going to "be a stumbling block" but rather what they do with it and the words they speak.

Eg, if a women is nude but dead on the floor there is no real "stumbling block" as so to speak.

 

[KarateCowboy]

Whoa, a topic that doesn't make my blood boil. That is good.

I think here are a few good rules of thumb for women:

Try to keep the skirts knee length or more.

Do not show cleavage. Maybe except in bathing suits.

You don't have to show your belly to be pretty.

 

[TooCurious]

Questions:

1. Do any of these guidelines take into account weather conditions? Because I'd imagine that if it's over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit outside, with high humidity, "modesty" would need to make some accomodations for comfort and, potentially, health.

2. Are there similar "modesty" criteria for men?

 

[SallyNow]

What is modest? Whatever is appropriate for the activity, the weather, and the enviroment. If it's a wedding, an evening dress or pantsuit is appropriate. If it is the beach, a swimsuit is appropriate. If it is a hike, a full-coverage evening dress would be immodest... but shorts and t-shirt would be appropriate.

The same goes for men. Wearing cut-offs and no shirt is fine for gardening on a summer day, but totally immodest at a wedding. A tuxedo is modest for a wedding but immodest for gardening.

Whoa, a topic that doesn't make my blood boil. That is good.

I think here are a few good rules of thumb for women:

Try to keep the skirts knee length or more.

Do not show cleavage. Maybe except in bathing suits.

You don't have to show your belly to be pretty.

You know, the cleavage thing is complicated. I know many women with naturally large breasts who feel more conspicuous when they are wearing turtlenecks then when they are wearing shirts with normal necklines that show a hint of cleavage. And you know why? Because visually, the turtlenecks do emphasise the bust, while the regular shirt with a hint of cleavage doesn't emphasies the bust. It's much more about visual perspective than "amount of cleavage=sexy".

The issue surrounding cleavage is actually a pretty complicated one!

 

[fuzzymel]

You know, the cleavage thing is complicated. I know many women with naturally large breasts who feel more conspicuous when they are wearing turtlenecks then when they are wearing shirts with normal necklines that show a hint of cleavage. And you know why? Because visually, the turtlenecks do emphasise the bust, while the regular shirt with a hint of cleavage doesn't emphasies the bust. It's much more about visual perspective than "amount of cleavage=sexy".

The issue surrounding cleavage is actually a pretty complicated one!

You have described me perfectly. If I cover myself with say a turtleneck it makes my breasts look massive and draws everyones eyes to them (which I really hate). A V-neck is perfect because it makes them look smaller and not as noticeable. I could never hide them properly but thats the way God made me.

I am a jeans and t-shirt kinda girl so would be horrified if my church decided skirts were the way for women to dress.

 

[Rochir]

So, how then is muslim modesty in women's attire any different from what Christian writers emphasise?

 

[Argent]

Questions:

1. Do any of these guidelines take into account weather conditions? Because I'd imagine that if it's over a hundred degrees Fahrenheit outside, with high humidity, "modesty" would need to make some accomodations for comfort and, potentially, health.

2. Are there similar "modesty" criteria for men?

It's really a matter of the woman's relationship to the Lord. The Holy Spirit will let her know what's right what's wrong. I'm very anti-legalism in such matters.

As far as men are concerned, yes, they should also seek the Holy Spirit's guidance regarding the way they dress, as their "immodest" dress could be a stumbling block to Christian men who are dealing with the issue of same-sex attraction.

Women dressing "modestly" is much more of a talked-about issue because a man's sexual response is visually oriented and the sins of lust and adultery in the heart come into play, and most men are heterosexual in orientation.

Christians should try to dress in such a way that their appearance isn't a stumbling block to other Christians, but the sin is in what a man does with his eyes and mind, not in the fact that a woman looks like a woman. God made woman. And he did a great job.

 

[tgg]

Where in the Bible does it specifically forbid women to expose their chests, but it's ok for men? That is sexist.

Lk 12:22-24 "Then Jesus said to his disciples: "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!"

1 Pet 3:3 "Do not let your adornment be merely outward-arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel, 4 rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God."

Col 3:12 "Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience."

 

[tgg]

As far as men are concerned, yes, they should also seek the Holy Spirit's guidance regarding the way they dress, as their "immodest" dress could be a stumbling block to Christian men who are dealing with the issue of same-sex attraction.

That is legalism as well. There is nothing wrong with same-sex attraction - God made some men that way.

Women dressing "modestly" is much more of a talked-about issue because a man's sexual response is visually oriented and the sins of lust and adultery in the heart come into play, and most men are heterosexual in orientation.

Well, I have been to church services where there were topless and nude women present and I certainly did not feel any sense of lust towards them.

Christians should try to dress in such a way that their appearance isn't a stumbling block to other Christians, but the sin is in what a man does with his eyes and mind, not in the fact that a woman looks like a woman. God made woman. And he did a great job.

I think Christians should be free to dress or undress as they please. Body shame and so-called 'modesty' with clothes are the philosophies of Satan, not God.

 

[tapero]

I think Christians should be free to dress or undress as they please. Body shame and so-called 'modesty' with clothes are the philosophies of Satan, not God.

Hi tgg,

I'm just writing about this one para from your last post. I don't know if you saw my post but it explained my feelings on the matter.

However, I just want to address what you said that modesty is the philosophy of satan and not God. That is untrue. Women are told to dress modestly in the bible. Please do read my post so that you see my thoughts on it before making a judgement regarding this post. I just wanted to tell you, it is not from satan, it is from God.

Blessings,
tapero

 

[steelmagnolia]

The closer and stronger your relationship becomes with the Lord, you will willingly want to be sure your dress is reflective of that and acceptable in the eyes of the Lord. A woman just KNOWS. I can't really explain it.

Sounds like some of the churches you spoke about are extremely legalistic - that is so harmful.

 

[Argent]

That is legalism as well. There is nothing wrong with same-sex attraction - God made some men that way.



Well, I have been to church services where there were topless and nude women present and I certainly did not feel any sense of lust towards them.



I think Christians should be free to dress or undress as they please. Body shame and so-called 'modesty' with clothes are the philosophies of Satan, not God.

Acting on same-sex attraction is a sin, and therefore outside of our Father's will for His children.

 

[Bombila]

I'm interested that the issue of men dressing modestly only addressed the fear of it causing other men to 'stumble'. Are women biblically not thought to be attracted by men's bodies? Because I imagine most of us women have found a man attractive, and often the nature of his dress might enhance that attraction.

Muslim men also are meant to dress modestly, by the way, at least according to a young Muslim man I worked with for several years. He did not go bare chested or bare thighed even at the beach.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

In my humble opinion, modesty is entirely dependent on a woman's will. If a woman has no desire or intention to be immodest, then she is automatically modest regardless of clothing. The lusts of people or the dress causing them have no relevance whatsoever. A woman who does not intend to cause lust may be wise or unwise about men, but never immodest with her dress.

 

[tapero]

I'm interested that the issue of men dressing modestly only addressed the fear of it causing other men to 'stumble'. Are women biblically not thought to be attracted by men's bodies? Because I imagine most of us women have found a man attractive, and often the nature of his dress might enhance that attraction.

Hi Bombila,

In the bible I can not think of scripture where it speaks of woman's attraction to men. There's the scripture about one woman, married who tried to seduce a godly man.

In effect how the only way I believe there would be mention is that we all sin. Lust being one of the sins.

God knows our hearts. Women are attracted to men.

Tapero

 

[TooCurious]

I'm interested that the issue of men dressing modestly only addressed the fear of it causing other men to 'stumble'. Are women biblically not thought to be attracted by men's bodies? Because I imagine most of us women have found a man attractive, and often the nature of his dress might enhance that attraction.

Good point! I'd been thinking of posting something similar myself.