torture

[Teufelhund]

No, I would lie, I would lie my rearheinie off to protect that which I cared about, I would lie so that the a-holes torturing me would not get the correct information. I'm not entirely new to this stuff, it's not like I've spent monthes under pressure getting yelled at and hazed, no wait, it is like I've spent monthes getting yelled at and hazed. The problem I have with torture is first off verification, second of all legality, third morality, lastly I do not think that torture is half as effective as other methods.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Brian Ross has a pretty solid reputation as an investigative reporter for ABCc

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

ok your a marine, is it ok to drop bombs on civilians and napalm them ? how about lobbing Mortar or artillery.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Just as it was in Vietnam, it is the same in Iraq and afghnistan. torture happens

 

[Teufelhund]

It is okay when it is necessary to drop Napalm on civilians, collateral damage is a necessity of war, and a gruesome one. Yes torture yes American soldiers, airmen, marines, sailers etc. torture people, I will never do, nor will I approve of it, yes the enemy tortures but I think that is what makes us right, is that we do not sink their level, that we are that tiny bit more honorable that makes us right. This is the way I feel about this. I'm still an idealist boot Marine, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I think that this arguement is too heated for me, as I'm becoming insulting and abrasive, I apologize, I feel that my views in this case by my morality. I will not change them for anything, I think that one man's soul, one man's humanity is worth more than lives, that our ability to recognize this makes us better. Again I apologize if I have been unkind in this discussion, it will not happen again.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

ok here is a hypothetical scenario:

You have an Al Qaeda suspect who you belive has information regarding an imminent attack on NYC using a small suitcase type nuclear device. Do you try to extract the information from him by all means necessary ?

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

your not abrasive, its ok. its called debate

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

It is okay when it is necessary to drop Napalm on civilians, collateral damage is a necessity of war, and a gruesome one. Yes torture yes American soldiers, airmen, marines, sailers etc. torture people, I will never do, nor will I approve of it, yes the enemy tortures but I think that is what makes us right, is that we do not sink their level, that we are that tiny bit more honorable that makes us right. This is the way I feel about this. I'm still an idealist boot Marine, I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I think that this arguement is too heated for me, as I'm becoming insulting and abrasive, I apologize, I feel that my views in this case by my morality. I will not change them for anything, I think that one man's soul, one man's humanity is worth more than lives, that our ability to recognize this makes us better. Again I apologize if I have been unkind in this discussion, it will not happen again.

I don't find you abrasive marine. I am just discussing gray areas and I commend you for your service and beliefs.

 

[Teufelhund]

No, I don't because he's a simple goat herder visiting his brother in NYC, the info that led us to him was wrong, and I would never violate an innocent man that way.

 

[Teufelhund]

I noticed I was being abrasive, when I noticing I was cussing at you in the forum, where I'm usually fairly restrained.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

No, I don't because he's a simple goat herder visiting his brother in NYC, the info that led us to him was wrong, and I would never violate an innocent man that way.

What if the CIA and FBI had pictures of him and informants .and they were quite confident that he was the one who had the Nuclear device ?

 

[Teufelhund]

Quite confident is one thing, I have been quite confident and wrong before.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Quite confident is one thing, I have been quite confident and wrong before.

Even if the Mossad and M13 both agreed I see your not going to agree. Hey we dropped 2 Nuclear devices onto cities during WWII. they belive it saved Milllions of US Soldiers lives (if we had to invade the main island) But we dropped those two bombs on top of civilian populations . I guess thats my point.

 

[Teufelhund]

I don't think that dropping the bombs was wrong, I do think torture is wrong. But I'm cool with not agreeing, at first I thought you were civilian, and I don't think civilians really understand so I was angry, so yeah. Whatever. I think Mossad and M13 are wrong. Actually our firebombing was far more destructive than either of the atom bombs.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

True. No I served in the army 9th Infantry 3/5 air cav, but that was back in the early 80's I did my 3 years and got out. I have fond memories. I guess sometimes as we get older and with all the anarchy in the world, we tend to get gray areas in our morailty. Im off to bed later

 

[irateional]

Like I stated, if you watch the videon by Brian Ross, he states that he unequivocally belives the statements to be true. Brian Ross was a doubter and now he is not. They got some pretty reliable stuff from Sheik Khalid Muhammid

It still destroys any moral high ground we have over our enemy.

 

[irateional]

your not abrasive, its ok. its called debate

This scenario you brought up has never happened in history. It's the invention of a fiction writer about a french man trying to stop the bombing of a cruise ship.

 

[*Starlight*]

I think that torture is wrong. I don't think people should do it, and I don't believe that God, if he really is good and just, does it.

 

[Joykins]

Torture is keyed to get the torturee to say whatever is necessary to make the torture stop. Whether that is true or not.

 

[KalithAlur]

wel, some interesting replies... and certainly stimulating me to further ponder the mysteries of torture and hell.

An explanation for Hell: by refusing the one-conditional (that condition being acceptance) love of God, the nonbeliever isolates self from divine bliss in heaven, therefore receiving the alternative, agonizing hell.

that hell is eternal is another interesting question... eternal isolation from God because that love was refused during the life of the believer?

as to before-death torture, at least that agony is only temporary.

i don't know if i agree with temporary discomfort to inspire information-sharing, "discomfort" varying on to "agony" and so forth... I feel like telepathic interrogations would be more merciful and effective

I certainly find attractive the One Conditional notion of Divine Love... Have you connected to that love, so great, it is limitless, and the only condition is your acceptance of that love?

I mean, how many of you walk around in a constant state of perfect love? This would be reaching Heaven before death!

And yet, There it is, to be received.