Topless Danes

[drstevej]

That argument was used just over a century ago to deny women the right to vote... Personally, I'm glad it didn't work then, either.

At least topless voting is behind a curtain.

 

[LightHorseman]

You missed the point- men and women arent the same.

A great many people disagree with you

Appeal to authority other than that of the Creator (who made men and women and made them different and for different purposes )- is invalid

Ditto.

Unless, of course, you can prove that your personal idea of who and what God is is THE exact, perfect correct one, as opposed to, for example, mine.

 

[The Lady Kate]

At least topless voting is behind a curtain.

To keep the choice private, not the voter. Ironic, isn't it?

 

[Angel4Truth]

That argument was used just over a century ago to deny women the right to vote... Personally, I'm glad it didn't work then, either.

A great many people disagree with you


Ditto.

Unless, of course, you can prove that your personal idea of who and what God is is THE exact, perfect correct one, as opposed to, for example, mine.

When either of you can tell me exactly how to impregnate my husband and how he will carry a child for 9 months in his womb then you are comparing apples and oranges and know it. Men and women are not the same.

To keep the choice private, not the voter. Ironic, isn't it?

If we are all to be subject to other women flashing their breasts out for anyone to see - their choice is no longer private is it?

 

[LightHorseman]

Um... getting your husband pregnant has what exactly to do with how we know that your personal interpretation of scripture is the correct one?

 

[LightHorseman]

If we are all to be subject to other women flashing their breasts out for anyone to see - their choice is no longer private is it?

There are many things we don't have control over;.

Personally, I don't like to see ugly people when I go out. I don't like to see overweight people wearing clothing that is too tight for them either (male OR female) but I respect their decision to choose to dress that way, even though I disagree with it.

Why are boobs so very different?

So, you're walking down the street, and you inadvertantly see a woman with her boobs out. If you just walk on by, and think to yourself "wow, THAT looked bad"... wheres the harm? Sure, I can see how you are harmed ifg you allow yourself to get worked up and carry on about it as a major issue, but it would be your choice to do so.

What actual harm does seeing a bare chested woman do that is any more harmful than seeing an ugly person, or a fashion unconcious person?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Um... getting your husband pregnant has what exactly to do with how we know that your personal interpretation of scripture is the correct one?

Maybe read what i was responding to instead of trying to constantly change the subject and act as if no one understands what the other person has said? - my response was in reference to the fact that men and women were made different by God for a reason-this was denied - The desire to act like men and women are totaly equal = ie "the same" is ludicrus - its simply not true.

 

[LightHorseman]

No one is denying there are differences between men and women. That does not mean that they are not entitled to equal rights.

Youy continue to evade the question... what makes you so sure that your personal interpretation of scripture is the correct one?

 

[Armistead]

I honestly think the problem we have with so called lust connected to body parts is a problem the church created. By making the natural body sin and all the legalism and tradition behind it, it actually created the problem. It took away natural sexuality and replaced it with myths and taboo. It created a mindset that resulted in sexuality becoming preverted.

Again, in areas not effected by legalism and religious tradition, body parts don't make people fall into a sexual stupor. My one visit to Africa, actually with a church mission group, we came upon nothing but naked people. The only people affected by it were those in our group. They don't look at each other in steaming lust, even while naked. They actually have a healthy respect and strong family values with all running around naked. Having no hang up with the body, they used deeper reasoning when seeking a marriage partner.

Throughout history, these many tribes never had problems with lust, jealousy, sexual rage or rape crimes, until they converted. They were then taught the body is dirty, sexually bad and had to be covered. Family stuctures that lasted for generations came apart, crime went up over hate and jealously, ect.

Many Christian, unbiblical principles, actually caused the problems with sexuality. We feel guilty over our body parts because of tradition and misguided teachings. That guilt is actually what has resulted in the host of sexual problems and crimes we have today.

The debate that its' what "God says" over culture is silly. It shows lack of biblical knowledge, putting early church teaching that were used to control people over actual truth.

 

[*Starlight*]

Appeal to authority other than that of the Creator (who made men and women and made them different and for different purposes )- is invalid

Appeal to facts is more valid than appeal to your own religious beliefs.

it WAS, but it isn't now.. so you've "mastered" scripture? Even theologians continue to learn more from His word.

I've seen some people in this thread who already claim that their understanding of the Bible is absolutely perfect and infallible...

 

[LightHorseman]

Appeal to facts is more valid than appeal to your own religious beliefs.

QFT

 

[SallyNow]

How about this:

Those who prefer clothed beaches go to them, and those who don't care about nudity or prefer to go topless can go to beaches were topless or even nude swimming is an option.

There. Problem solved.

On a side note, I've realized that people who are less worried about what other people are wearing are also often less likely to go all lustful and rightous. Perhaps there is something to nurture over nature in this case...

 

[Iskra]

A great many people disagree with you


Ditto.

Unless, of course, you can prove that your personal idea of who and what God is is THE exact, perfect correct one, as opposed to, for example, mine.

Don't forget that she already has claimed that she is infallable in her understanding of the Bible.

 

[The Lady Kate]

When either of you can tell me exactly how to impregnate my husband and how he will carry a child for 9 months in his womb then you are comparing apples and oranges and know it. Men and women are not the same.

So, the fact that we are capable of bringing life into this world makes us inferior?

If we are all to be subject to other women flashing their breasts out for anyone to see - their choice is no longer private is it?

Apparantly the people of Denmark have decided that particular choice need not be private... who are you to tell them otherwise?

 

[The Lady Kate]

How about this:

Those who prefer clothed beaches go to them, and those who don't care about nudity or prefer to go topless can go to beaches were topless or even nude swimming is an option.

There. Problem solved.

Except that it doesn't give certain people the thrill of commanding other people how to live their lives under threat of eternal damnation...

On a side note, I've realized that people who are less worried about what other people are wearing are also often less likely to go all lustful and rightous. Perhaps there is something to nurture over nature in this case...

I noted something similar before.... certain people will call this "desensitization" and rail against it. Personally, I don't see the problem with lightening up.

 

[Nadiine]

Except that it doesn't give certain people the thrill of commanding other people how to live their lives under threat of eternal damnation...

Well 2 can play this one easily:
"ya, but it doesn't give people the thrill of forcing others to have to watch them, what's the pleasure of it if you aren't shoving your immorality down people's throats?"

I noted something similar before.... certain people will call this "desensitization" and rail against it. Personally, I don't see the problem with lightening up.

You don't see a problem with alot of things others do here... it doesn't make your view correct does it?

Go join a nudist colony for all I care - they have beach areas and all kinds of open nudity - heck they probly have towns & bars; golly, you could go shopping without tops on. woohoo!
LOL

 

[Nadiine]

So, the fact that we are capable of bringing life into this world makes us inferior?

How do you arrive at this from her statement:

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

When either of you can tell me exactly how to impregnate my husband and how he will carry a child for 9 months in his womb then you are comparing apples and oranges and know it. Men and women are not the same​

​

She's stating that you cannot use shirtless men as an equality standard when you are not physically identical to the male anatomy. The 2 sexes are not physically the same nor do they visually react identically to the same stimulus.
Male breasts are not viewed equally as female breasts which are sexual objects of arousal.
Ie. comparing apples to oranges to make a case.

And nevermind this, you have a woman on a beach with nothing but a pair of skimpy bikini bottoms - how is this "modest" in any meaning of the term.
It's not and we all know it.

 

[LightHorseman]

Nadiine, I have tried to ask you this before... do you really find a great many people shoving their bare breasts in your face? Because, I'll be honest... I'm a boob guy, and I'd be pretty aware of them being "forced down my throat" to use your phrase... and I gotta tell ya... I just don't see it happening.

 

[LightHorseman]

And nevermind this, you have a woman on a beach with nothing but a pair of skimpy bikini bottoms - how is this "modest" in any meaning of the term.
It's not and we all know it.

Is it really any less modest than a woman in skimpy bikini bottoms and a skimpy bikini top?

Or, and heres something for you to ponder, a case where "modesty" is not the issue... maybe, just MAYBE the women who want to go topless do so because they enjoy the sensation of sun, sand and surf on a bare chest? Maybe its something that makes them feel good, and the modesty or lack thereof has nothing to do with it? Now, sure, if people were actively flashing in the street, going out of their way to expose their flesh in intentionally seductive ways with the intention of luring men into sin, well, that would certainly be poor form... but is a woman lying on a beach enjoying the sun REALLY comparable to a pole dancing stripper?

Or could it be that context has more of a roll to play here than you are allowing for?

 

[LightHorseman]

they have beach areas and all kinds of open nudity - heck they probly have towns & bars; golly, you could go shopping without tops on. woohoo!

This is actually fairly common practice in some parts of the South of France... and surprisingly, French society does not seem on the brink of catastrophic collapse as a result