Topless Danes

[Nadiine]

But it does... because what your opinion/interpretation is of "adultery" is STILL only just opinion/interpretation... you have accepted that adultery means "X", whereas many people disagree with you over the meaning

LOL oh now we can't even know what adultery means!
If that's so, then how do you know what any term means or if it's right or wrong? How do you hold ANY opinion when you can't even interpret meaning in your unknowledgable state?

In fact, nothing you read, hear or watch can be interpreted to mean anything in absolute truth can it?

Welcome to the lovely world of relativism. 'I can't really interpret the meaning of anything'.

If that's the case, then you'll never come to know any truth of anything spiritual or secular; truly it's what Paul spoke of in 2 Tim 3:7
"always learning, yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth".

& if you can't know what adultery means in scripture, modesty will be an even tougher one to tackle!

 

[The Lady Kate]

it WAS, but it isn't now.. so you've "mastered" scripture?

Never said that... but I certainly don't need (nor particularly want) your assistance.

Even theologians continue to learn more from His word.

but not from you.

And if it was true then, it's true today - yet what I'm reading doesn't line up with what it says directly or in principle???

So, you don't eat lobster?
You sequester yourself away from men during your time of the month, lest you make them "unclean"?
You keep your mouth shut in church like you're suppsoed to?

 

[The Lady Kate]

baiting isn't allowed, it's against CF rules. You know that noone can answer that with a "yes" answer.

I'm not baiting anyone... just asking a question. I promise I won't report you if you answer "yes."

Besides, I didn't ask about my Christianity, only my icon.

(or are you confusing icons with what they represent? Once again, the map is not the territory...)

 

[drstevej]

The icons have gone post modern around here.
What happened to the near nekkid danes ???

 

[The Lady Kate]

Mod Hat Post:​

Perhaps I'm just..uninformed..but I fail to see the connection between prophecies of Israel in the Holy Scriptures, and women going topless..​

Let's get back on topic, please.​

Mod Hat Off

-----------------------------------------------------------------------​

I'm a little puzzled on that, myself.

In the interest of getting back on topic, let me just say that Should I ever find myself in Denmark, and be given the oppertunity to go sunbathing (not sure why I would want to, I've always thought of it as being pretty cold up there), then I may or may not decide to do so topless.

Probably not... much as I hate tan lines, I suppose my American modesty will get the better of me. Regardless, the decision to do so will be my own, weighing the morality or immorality of it based on the situation.

If I ever find myself in Denmark faced with this choice (highly unlikely, but hey, who knows?) I will square my decision with God, and not any self-appointed intermediary.

 

[drstevej]

How does God let you know... text messages, warm glow, sky writin?

 

[The Lady Kate]

The icons have gone post modern around here.
What happened to the near nekkid danes ???

Perhaps they simply chose to put their clothes back on... Dunno about Denmark, but it's been raining all weekend around here... not exactly weather that anyone would want to walk around topless in.

 

[Archivist]

LOL oh now we can't even know what adultery means!
If that's so, then how do you know what any term means or if it's right or wrong? How do you hold ANY opinion when you can't even interpret meaning in your unknowledgable state?

In fact, nothing you read, hear or watch can be interpreted to mean anything in absolute truth can it?

Welcome to the lovely world of relativism. 'I can't really interpret the meaning of anything'.

If that's the case, then you'll never come to know any truth of anything spiritual or secular; truly it's what Paul spoke of in 2 Tim 3:7
"always learning, yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth".

& if you can't know what adultery means in scripture, modesty will be an even tougher one to tackle!

If you want to start a thread on adultery please feel free to do so. That is not what this thread is about. Our moderator has requested that this thread get back on topic.

Perhaps you would like to address the facts that I raised in my post #511 instead of going off topic.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Actually the infallibility of scripture was brought up by both you Archivist and also The lady Kate - as it related to modesty and "opinion evidence" given by you both dealt with the adultery topic and biblical prophecy as evidence of the bibles truths -while its agreed the thread shouldnt be derailed by indepth discussion on those topics - it is most certainly nessesary to answer concerns brought up by you is it not - so it would actually be best if one didnt present an off topic sideline then complain about responses to it.

The bible is infallible and gives ample evidence that God wanted man and woman covered because He covered them himself and speaks about others uncovering nakedness that was meant to be between a man and his wife only.

 

[Archivist]

I'm a little puzzled on that, myself.

In the interest of getting back on topic, let me just say that Should I ever find myself in Denmark, and be given the oppertunity to go sunbathing (not sure why I would want to, I've always thought of it as being pretty cold up there), then I may or may not decide to do so topless.

Probably not... much as I hate tan lines, I suppose my American modesty will get the better of me. Regardless, the decision to do so will be my own, weighing the morality or immorality of it based on the situation.

If I ever find myself in Denmark faced with this choice (highly unlikely, but hey, who knows?) I will square my decision with God, and not any self-appointed intermediary.

To me the issue isn't whether women choose to go topless--that's a personal decision. The real issue is that they should have the right to go topless anyplace that men have the right to go topless.

Women can go topless in New York state. Very few do. However, the few who do can at least do so without the fear that they will be dragged off to jail.

I do believe that if women were permitted to go topless in public we would see a very gradual shift in our American attitudes. I think that in 20-30 years it would become commonplace and men would regard a topless woman no differently then women now regard topless men. I remain convinced that such a shift would be healthy for our nation. However, it wouldn't happen overnight.

I started this thread not because I want to promote topless women, but because I believe in equal rights. One poster has argued that we might as well legalize prostitution or drugs. The difference is that we don't allow men to engage in prostitution but disallow women from doing so or allow men to take drugs but arrest women who take drugs. However, we continue to allow men to go topless while arresting women who do so.

It comes back to a matter of equal rights.

 

[drstevej]

Men should be allowed to breast feed in public. Equal rights.

 

[LightHorseman]

LOL oh now we can't even know what adultery means!
If that's so, then how do you know what any term means or if it's right or wrong? How do you hold ANY opinion when you can't even interpret meaning in your unknowledgable state?

In fact, nothing you read, hear or watch can be interpreted to mean anything in absolute truth can it?

Welcome to the lovely world of relativism. 'I can't really interpret the meaning of anything'.

If that's the case, then you'll never come to know any truth of anything spiritual or secular; truly it's what Paul spoke of in 2 Tim 3:7
"always learning, yet never coming to the knowledge of the truth".

& if you can't know what adultery means in scripture, modesty will be an even tougher one to tackle!

Adultery means different things to different poeople in different contexts.

I wish you would approach this discussion without quite such haughty high handedness.

I have a sincere question for you...

If you don't examine specifically what the Biblical authors meant by "adultery", how do you know that YOUIR defenition of adultery is the same as theirs?

Further, what makes you believe that their social context for condemning adultery is the same as yours, and thus the same definition applys?

Because I KNOW you accept that social conventions and contexts change, and that in some ways Biblical "rights and wrongs" are NOT applicable in modern society.

I am open to being persuaded I am wrong, but laughing and dismissing my sincere questions without any attempt toi address them is not the way to achieve this.

 

[LightHorseman]

Men should be allowed to breast feed in public. Equal rights.

I believe that is rather the point. Men ARE allowed to go topless in public. It may not be considered particularly classy, but its not illegal or "immorral". For there to be equal rights, women should be afforded the same opportunity.

 

[Angel4Truth]

You missed the point- men and women arent the same.

 

[Archivist]

Men should be allowed to breast feed in public. Equal rights.

This is from the article "Male Lactation" by Professor Patty Stuart Macadam of the Department of Anthropology at the University of Toronto (Compleat Mother, Fall, 1996, Volume 43).

"It is possible, and has been observed in animals and humans. In 1992, 18 Dayak fruit bats were captured from a rainforest in the Krau Game Reserve, Pahang, Malaysia. Of the 10 mature males captured, each had functional mammary glands from which small amounts of milk were expressed. A breast is a breast. Male lactation is physiologically possible and, according to Dr. Robert Greenblatt, production in males can be stimulated by letting a baby suckle for several weeks. Indeed some human males secrete milk at birth and at puberty.Historically, male lactation was noted by the German explorer Alexander Freiherr von Humboldt prior to 1859, who wrote of a 32-year-old man who breastfed his child for five months. It was also observed in a 55-year-old Baltimore man who had been the wetnurse of the children of his mistress."

Since men already have the right to go topless in public and since at least some men do lactate, they do indeed have the right to breastfeed in public.

BTW, in the children's sermon at my church on Mother's Day our pastor asked the children what things their mother did for them. One little girl who is probably around 3 and who has a newborn baby brother said "mommy lets us drink milk from her breasts." I think her mother was mortified...

 

[Angel4Truth]

Appeal to authority other than that of the Creator (who made men and women and made them different and for different purposes )- is invalid

 

[The Lady Kate]

To me the issue isn't whether women choose to go topless--that's a personal decision. The real issue is that they should have the right to go topless anyplace that men have the right to go topless.

The people of Denmark have already said yes. That ends the debate there, anyway.

Women can go topless in New York state. Very few do. However, the few who do can at least do so without the fear that they will be dragged off to jail.

And here's where we have a lot of confusion... a lot of people seem to think that allowing people to be out and about in various states of undress is the same as making it mandatory. I'll probably never go topless... but it is thoughtful that I have that option, and not that it was taken away from me from someone who patronizingly wants to guard my virtue for me.

I do believe that if women were permitted to go topless in public we would see a very gradual shift in our American attitudes. I think that in 20-30 years it would become commonplace and men would regard a topless woman no differently then women now regard topless men. I remain convinced that such a shift would be healthy for our nation. However, it wouldn't happen overnight.

Our more zealous bretheren would call that "desensitization..." Myself, I'd call it "lightening up."

That was a point I was trying to make earlier with an image of a 1907 swimsuit... pretty scandalous for the time, but we don't live in that time anymore.

Paul's instruction to dress modestly may be absolute... but what "modestly" is is not.

I started this thread not because I want to promote topless women, but because I believe in equal rights.

I believe in choices. Morality can only come from knowing right from wrong, having the free will to do right or wrong, and choosing to do the right. I neither need nor want some ubitquitous nanny figure attempting to coerce me onto the "right" path... I'll find it myself, thankyouverymuch.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Men should be allowed to breast feed in public. Equal rights.

Men are welcome to try... let me know how that works out.

 

[The Lady Kate]

You missed the point- men and women arent the same.

That argument was used just over a century ago to deny women the right to vote... Personally, I'm glad it didn't work then, either.

 

[drstevej]

BTW, in the children's sermon at my church on Mother's Day our pastor asked the children what things their mother did for them. One little girl who is probably around 3 and who has a newborn baby brother said "mommy lets us drink milk from her breasts." I think her mother was mortified...

Viva La Leche League.

Her 4 year old brother replied, "Me too, but I like dad's milk better."

The the pastor read his text for the morning...
"Let anyone who thirsts come to me and drink."