Topless Danes

The Lady Kate · May 12, 2008

Nadiine said:
God inspired writers - writing as led by the Lord - otherwise, they sure do have future events 100% accurate... that would be a huge coinkeydink.

It's actually pretty easy to "see the future" when you write about it after the fact.

But we can discuss Biblical scholarship in another thread at another time.

Even psychics don't know the future... and since they were WITH JESUS in person, I assure you, I accept their testimony over and above YOURS which lacks any proof or any foundation other than "it's my opinion".

If by "They," you mean the authors of the Gospels, then I'm afraid you are incorrect... just about anyone can tell you the Gospels were written decades after the end of Jesus' earthly life... and not by anyone who was personally there.

In any case, I should revere your opinion because...?

That also means that you REJECT THE GOD THEY PREACH ABOUT, no?

Nope. It doesn't. And putting your weak conclusions IN BOLD AND IN ALL CAPS doesn't make them any stronger either.

Let me ask you this: Hypothetically speaking, would it make you feel any better if I took the "Christian" icon off my name?

The Lady Kate · May 12, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
The Bible IS God's written Word to mankind.
To obey God's written Word is to obey God.
See the reality?

The Bible is man's record of his covenant with God. It is not God.

Same question I just posed Nadiine: Should I take the "Christian" icon off my profile?

The Lady Kate · May 12, 2008

Angel4Truth said:
You said there was more than one "way" that condradicts Him who is the only way - you said your knowledge of Him was from "guides" and not from Him or His word. Thats another way.

One of those "guides" was the Bible... why did you assume otherwise?

Nadiine · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
Clear.

then again, one who's conscience IS seared, will be CLEARED as well....

they've turned off all conviction by the Spirit - and/or the Spirit has stopped working to bring conviction. Romans 1 says God turns them over to their desires instead of continuing to try to reach them.

I'm not your judge - but GOd's word is the discerner.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful,
and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Nadiine · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
One of those "guides" was the Bible... why did you assume otherwise?

it WAS, but it isn't now.. so you've "mastered" scripture? Even theologians continue to learn more from His word.
And if it was true then, it's true today - yet what I'm reading doesn't line up with what it says directly or in principle???

The Lady Kate · May 12, 2008

Nadiine said:
How is believing what the authors of the Bible (who are eyewitnesses to God directly) equivalent to "worship" of a bible??

Now that's just bad theology all around... the closest thing we have to a Bible author who "eyewitnessed" God was Paul... and even he only witnessed a vision of Jesus... one which he himself never bothers to talk about (Paul's encounter on the road to Damascus was chronicled in the Book of Acts, and not in any of his own writings.)

Luke 16 comes out and says you MUST believe Moses & the prophets as true; and that they testify of Him.

Since I don't see a need to hide myself in a hut during my "unclean" time of the month, I guess I REJECT Moses as well, right?

This is about belief of scripture's teachings, NOT literal worship of a book. (Gosh but I get so sick of that false accusation).

How about the true accusations?

It's more of a scapegoat than anything imo.

Your opinion is noted.

And lastly, how does not "worshipping" a book warrent denial of clear scriptures spelled out for us?

I deny almost as much Scripture as you do... I'm just more up front about it.

The Lady Kate · May 12, 2008

Nadiine said:
then again, one who's conscience IS seared, will be CLEARED as well....

PM me if you need help getting that beam out of your eye.

they've turned off all conviction by the Spirit - and/or the Spirit has stopped working to bring conviction. Romans 1 says God turns them over to their desires instead of continuing to try to reach them.

I'm not your judge - but GOd's word is the discerner.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful,
and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

At least we can agree on something... God's opinion is what counts... not yours.

Iskra · May 12, 2008

Nadiine said:
it WAS, but it isn't now.. so you've "mastered" scripture? Even theologians continue to learn more from His word.
And if it was true then, it's true today - yet what I'm reading doesn't line up with what it says directly or in principle???

I believe it wasn't The Lady Kate who claimed infallable interpretation of the Bible.

Nadiine · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
The Bible is man's record of his covenant with God. It is not God.

Same question I just posed Nadiine: Should I take the "Christian" icon off my profile?

baiting isn't allowed, it's against CF rules. You know that noone can answer that with a "yes" answer.

Nadiine · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
PM me if you need help getting that beam out of your eye.

At least we can agree on something... God's opinion is what counts... not yours.

I have no beam in my eye on this topic - I also claim I sin and know what sin is as per my conscience according to God's written standards for us.

The beam comment doesn't even apply here because that was a GENERAL statement regarding the condition of a seared conscience.

By the way, reading "do not commit adultery" doesn't make it my opinion when I relay that adultery is sin.

Archivist · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
[What exactly does your Bible say? "Dress modestly."
Does the Bible explicitly tell you how much is modest and how much is not? No. Where then shall you pick up that piece of wisdom?
More importantly, where shall the rest of us pick it up?
From you?... no thanks.

Very well said.

1 Timothy 2:9 tells us "n like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array."

This clearly defines modesty in terms of wearing braided hair, jewelery and expensive clothing. It does not address what body parts a women should or should not cover. I assume that those in this thread who are arguing that "modesty" forbids nudity regularly style their hair and wear jewelery and expensive clothing, in direct violation of Paul's words to Timothy.

Contrary to what some have said in this thread, history shows us that "the ancient world seems to have had a more relaxed attitude toward nudity" (quoting "Baptism in the Patristic Period" by Everett Ferguson,
http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/theology/ejournal/aet_1/Ferguson.htm).
We know, for example, that Peter stripped naked to fish--John 21:7 tells us "[n]ow when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea." Likewise we know that Bathsheba was bathing naked where she could be seen from the sorrounding roofs (2 Samuel 11:2).

In addition, we have to take note of the fact that Paul was writing to Timothy, the son of a Greek father and a converted Jewish mother. Being Greek, Timothy would have had an even more relaxed attitude towards nudity, nudity being common in Greek art and culture. Therefore he would not have equated "modesty" with "nudity."

A further example of this relaxed attitude towrards nudity in Biblical times in the fact that baptisms were performed nude in the early Christian church. Artwork found in the ancient Christian Catacombs of Rome show Christians being baptized in the nude (see http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/research/theology/ejournal/aet_1/Ferguson.htm).

Likewise, we know that it was (as still is) common for women to go topless in Ethiopia. However, that was never condemed by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, one of the oldest churches in Christiendom. It was European and American missionaries who tried stop this and force their western values on the Ethiopians. Yet today many African churches have experienced regrowth by restoring such cultural values as traditional African dress which had been surpressed by the missionaries (source: Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity).

The fact is that our European friends have a much healthier attitude towards the human body because topless bathing has become common throughout much of Europe. In my opinion, it would be a good thing for America to allow topless bathing for both sexes for this very reason. Contrary to what some have said (even when they rudly say it IN ALL CAPS), there certainly is nothing in Scripture that condemns such behavior.

Nadiine · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
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And yet, even divided, we shall eventually reach the same place.

What exactly does your Bible say? "Dress modestly."
Does the Bible explicitly tell you how much is modest and how much is not? No. Where then shall you pick up that piece of wisdom?
More importantly, where shall the rest of us pick it up?
From you?... no thanks.

And where do you pick up that "modest apparel" means 'TAKE YOUR CLOTHES OFF and go 1/2 naked - wear just a tiny bikini bottom'???

This works both ways and Karisma's reply about feeling "wierd" is all we needed to see that something didn't feel right, but she continued forcing herself into the situation of public nudity in order to make herself less self conscious about it.

That speaks volumes.

Angel4Truth · May 12, 2008

The Lady Kate said:
It's actually pretty easy to "see the future" when you write about it after the fact.

Did the state of Israel become a nation after the fact? No it happened in 1948 as prophecied much more than 2000 years ago. Im guessing you arent really familiar with the bibles prophecies.
__________________________________________________________

Now onto a different matter :
I said to you :

Angel4Truth said:
You said there was more than one "way" that condradicts Him who is the only way - you said your knowledge of Him was from "guides" and not from Him or His word. Thats another way.

and you responded with:

The Lady Kate said:
One of those "guides" was the Bible... why did you assume otherwise?

Because you said otherwise- i dont assume- its you that err with that statement (deliberate maybe?) which is not a fact in any manner...

I originally asked you this :

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

I see , so without any bible and without any witness from anyone about Jesus - you knew who he was and He told you himself what His commandment was- is that right?

You responded to that direct quote with this:

The Lady Kate said:
I had guides back when I needed them... people and writings which helped put me in touch with the Lord in my heart... I thank those guides, but I no longer need them. I know the Way now.

Since I asked how you knew without the bible - then obviously the bible couldnt have been one of the "guides" you were refering to at the time. This isnt a chat room - text is easy to go back and get. Try again.

Ive also added the complete context so there can be no mistake in understanding what you said. And with that there really isnt anything else to say because when people start changing what they said and then accusing as if its someone elses error- there can be no conversation with any value. Have a great day.

drstevej · May 12, 2008

Archivist said:
The fact is that our European friends have a much healthier attitude towards the human body because topless bathing has become common throughout much of Europe.

Healthy = they agree with you.

Nadiine · May 12, 2008

Originally Posted by The Lady Kate

It's actually pretty easy to "see the future" when you write about it after the fact.

It always interests me that Christians need to try to support the bible to others who claim the same God.

Kinda baffling to me.

Further, I can see that you need to hit the "skeptic" sites that disprove all these nonsensical false accusations against the Bible's integrity.

People who do this haven't done any proper study; and I usually claim it's becuz they want to think they're right.
They think they have a case to disprove scripture truths and they don't ever bother looking up the facts for themselves; I guess if you make the arguments, it must mean you're correct about them.

Bible scholars abound and disprove this trash for what it is. TRASH.
Look into Dr. Norman Geisler, Chuck Missler & John Ankerberg, they have some excellent information that disproves all those skeptic falsities that get parroted without knowledge.

LightHorseman · May 12, 2008

Did the state of Israel become a nation after the fact? No it happened in 1948 as prophecied much more than 2000 years ago. Im guessing you arent really familiar with the bibles prophecies.

Yep, prophecying Israel is one the Bible got right.

What about all the ones it got wrong?

LightHorseman · May 12, 2008

By the way, reading "do not commit adultery" doesn't make it my opinion when I relay that adultery is sin.

But it does... because what your opinion/interpretation is of "adultery" is STILL only just opinion/interpretation... you have accepted that adultery means "X", whereas many people disagree with you over the meaning

Angel4Truth · May 12, 2008

Prophecy yet to come to pass doesnt = the bible got it wrong but please start another thread if you wish to explore this in detail and feel free to send me a link to it.

Angel4Truth · May 12, 2008

Those who need ways around sin would need alternate definitions than those that have been around for thousands of years.

BreadAlone · May 12, 2008

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mod Hat On

Mod Hat Post:

Perhaps I'm just..uninformed..but I fail to see the connection between prophecies of Israel in the Holy Scriptures, and women going topless..

Let's get back on topic, please.

Mod Hat Off
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