Topless Danes

Nadiine · May 11, 2008

karisma said:
So why do men like to be topless?

Besides, comfort is also an issue.

well, I've worn bikini's & one pieces - if it's about comfort, it's the BOTTOMS that are the least comfortable and constrictive with the tight elastic in some places.
The tops are actually helpful in that they provide support - I won't bother to elaborate other than to say many of us need support up there & it's more comfortable to wear tops than not.

And I'd also note, that we are not physically identical and equal with men, so we don't have to do everything they do - that type of mentality is more rebellion than sensical imo.
Men are hardwired differently, and are visually stimulated [sexually]. It's a known biological fact that we just have to deal with.

We do not HAVE to be and do or have everything they do and demand 'rights' just becuz others can do something. I can just see in the OT, the people having uprisings as they demand that women be allowed to be high priests of the temple, or others who aren't from the Levite lines as God ordained.

I think we have to be careful when we start into those types of thought processes over and above humility and obedience to what God teaches and wills for us as Holy people set apart to His service.
ie. I think it's rooted in fcarnal/worldly thinking.

karisma · May 11, 2008

catlover said:
Some men should be topless-others need to keep their shirt on...

j/k

Seriously! I've seen guys with bigger boobs than I have! Yet they can go topless and it's ok???

catlover · May 11, 2008

karisma said:
Seriously! I've seen guys with bigger boobs than I have! Yet they can go topless and it's ok???

Think that will cause other people to backslide or burn with lust?

karisma · May 11, 2008

Nadiine said:
well, I've worn bikini's & one pieces - if it's about comfort, it's the BOTTOMS that are the least comfortable and constrictive with the tight elastic in some places.
The tops are actually helpful in that they provide support - I won't bother to elaborate other than to say many of us need support up there & it's more comfortable to wear tops than not.

I don't see anyone here advocating for not wearing bottoms. I wouldn't, just from a public health perspective (there's a lot of dirty people out there!). And if you are needing and happy with support, than go for it! No one is saying women HAVE to be topless. We are just saying if a woman WANTS to go topless at the beach for whatever reason, she should be able to.

And I'd also note, that we are not physically identical and equal with men, so we don't have to do everything they do - that type of mentality is more rebellion than sensical imo.

Men are hardwired differently, and are visually stimulated [sexually]. It's a known biological fact that we just have to deal with.

Yes but this thread is about whether it should be legal. And there is no good reason for it to be illegal. It is discrimination, whether you see it that way or not. And there are states in the US where women can go topless, and as women continue to fight this in court and win this right will continue to be granted. Soon it will be legal in the US although I think it will take a long time before we see women actually going topless on a regular basis.

We do not HAVE to be and do or have everything they do and demand 'rights' just becuz others can do something. I can just see in the OT, the people having uprisings as they demand that women be allowed to be high priests of the temple, or others who aren't from the Levite lines as God ordained.

This is a secular nation and women have to have equal rights as men or it's discrimination. If you don't want to go topless: don't. No one is making you.

I think we have to be careful when we start into those types of thought processes over and above humility and obedience to what God teaches and wills for us as Holy people set apart to His service.

ie. I think it's rooted in fcarnal/worldly thinking.

And I'm sure a lot of people fought tooth and nail when two piece swim suits were introduced, yet they became mainstream.

catlover · May 11, 2008

karisma said:
[/SIZE][/FONT]

I don't see anyone here advocating for not wearing bottoms. I wouldn't, just from a public health perspective (there's a lot of dirty people out there!). And if you are needing and happy with support, than go for it! No one is saying women HAVE to be topless. We are just saying if a woman WANTS to go topless at the beach for whatever reason, she should be able to.

Yes but this thread is about whether it should be legal. And there is no good reason for it to be illegal. It is discrimination, whether you see it that way or not. And there are states in the US where women can go topless, and as women continue to fight this in court and win this right will continue to be granted. Soon it will be legal in the US although I think it will take a long time before we see women actually going topless on a regular basis.

This is a secular nation and women have to have equal rights as men or it's discrimination. If you don't want to go topless: don't. No one is making you.

And I'm sure a lot of people fought tooth and nail when two piece swim suits were introduced, yet they became mainstream.

Weren't women arrested for wearing bathing suits on the beach?? They were like skirts...that is the type of junk I wear though..I am not a nude sunbather but it's a personal preference...

karisma · May 11, 2008

catlover said:
Think that will cause other people to backslide or burn with lust?

Probably a few women will be seriously attracted to that, yes. People have all kinds of weird attractions. Would I personally? Nope.

It's already been stated that a woman could be covered head to toe and still incite lust. Men lust. It just is! It can't be prevented. And once seeing topless women becomes normal the lust factor will return to normal levels. I've seen it happen! When I went to Europe a couple years back with my bf we frequented several beaches where women were topless and the first day I could tell he was intentionally trying NOT to look, but by the third day it had become the norm and it wasn't a big deal for me OR him anymore. Amazing how quickly we adjust!

catlover · May 11, 2008

4. It's 1907 and women can be arrested for wearing this now-common item in public. Just ask Annette Kellerman.

A) Lipstick
B) Shorts
C) One-piece swimsuit
D) Open-toed shoes

You chose: D
Actress and swimmer Annette Kellerman made a brief publicity appearance on Boston's Revere Beach wearing her usual Vaudeville costume - a boy's black woolen racing suit that clung tightly and left her legs, arms and neck bare. Other women on the beach were wearing traditional swimwear, which included skirts, long-sleeved blouses and stockings. Unhappy with Kellerman's "immodesty," a fellow beachgoer called a cop, who arrested Kellerman for indecent exposure.

http://msn.ancestry.com/landing/msn/taboo_quiz_answer_m.htm?ans=ADBDAD

catlover · May 11, 2008

karisma said:
Probably a few women will be seriously attracted to that, yes. People have all kinds of weird attractions. Would I personally? Nope.

It's already been stated that a woman could be covered head to toe and still incite lust. Men lust. It just is! It can't be prevented. And once seeing topless women becomes normal the lust factor will return to normal levels. I've seen it happen! When I went to Europe a couple years back with my bf we frequented several beaches where women were topless and the first day I could tell he was intentionally trying NOT to look, but by the third day it had become the norm and it wasn't a big deal for me OR him anymore. Amazing how quickly we adjust!

Interesting.

catlover · May 11, 2008

4. It's 1907 and women can be arrested for wearing this now-common item in public. Just ask Annette Kellerman.

A) Lipstick
B) Shorts
C) One-piece swimsuit
D) Open-toed shoes

You chose: D
Actress and swimmer Annette Kellerman made a brief publicity appearance on Boston's Revere Beach wearing her usual Vaudeville costume - a boy's black woolen racing suit that clung tightly and left her legs, arms and neck bare. Other women on the beach were wearing traditional swimwear, which included skirts, long-sleeved blouses and stockings. Unhappy with Kellerman's "immodesty," a fellow beachgoer called a cop, who arrested Kellerman for indecent exposure.

karisma · May 11, 2008

catlover said:
4. It's 1907 and women can be arrested for wearing this now-common item in public. Just ask Annette Kellerman.

A) Lipstick
B) Shorts
C) One-piece swimsuit
D) Open-toed shoes

You chose: D
Actress and swimmer Annette Kellerman made a brief publicity appearance on Boston's Revere Beach wearing her usual Vaudeville costume - a boy's black woolen racing suit that clung tightly and left her legs, arms and neck bare. Other women on the beach were wearing traditional swimwear, which included skirts, long-sleeved blouses and stockings. Unhappy with Kellerman's "immodesty," a fellow beachgoer called a cop, who arrested Kellerman for indecent exposure.

Wow!

catlover · May 11, 2008

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Annette_Kellerman1.jpg

What a wicked woman for tempting men like that..

karisma · May 11, 2008

Haha, I can see why she caused such an uproar!

Nadiine · May 11, 2008

karisma said:
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I don't see anyone here advocating for not wearing bottoms. I wouldn't, just from a public health perspective (there's a lot of dirty people out there!). And if you are needing and happy with support, than go for it! No one is saying women HAVE to be topless. We are just saying if a woman WANTS to go topless at the beach for whatever reason, she should be able to.

No she should not "just be able to" anymore than they shouldn't be taking bottoms off.
Christians have a higher calling to modesty in moderation and valuing their body than to make it common in open nudity for starters. I'm talking about Christians here, not the world. The world won't find ANY godly reason to do or not do anything; He isn't viewed as their authority.
This is why other countries legalize drugs, prostitution, abortion, sex clubs, porn and many other things. It never makes it RIGHT for Christians.

But I was just going on your statement about women doing it for "comfort". If that's the issue, then it's actually the bottoms that are the most uncomfortable, not the tops that can be better adjusted to our comfort level.

And for that matter, what's to stop them from wanting to go bottomless too? Or doing striptease dancing while they take it off? Why draw a line anywhere & who's to stop it.

Yes but this thread is about whether it should be legal. And there is no good reason for it to be illegal. It is discrimination, whether you see it that way or not.

It's not discrimination - anymore than not being able to go bottomless is. Everywhere we go, there are rules that exist for reasons.
ANY rule can be seen as discrimination if you get right down to it.
Rules = "restriction" of some sort.

What of women who have women's groups - gosh, that's pretty discriminating not to allow men in. We already saw this with a professional golf tournament where a female golfer demanded she be allowed to play even tho the rules are that it's a men's tournament.

Sorry but this to me is just whiney rebellion, people should grow up & deal with the fact that everything in life is NOT perfectly even nor does it have to be nor should it be.

And there are states in the US where women can go topless, and as women continue to fight this in court and win this right will continue to be granted. Soon it will be legal in the US although I think it will take a long time before we see women actually going topless on a regular basis.

I don't care what they do or attain; they'll also answer to God for their actions & rebellion. We already have laws that are sinful, adding more doesnt' surprise me as we continue down the slopes we're on. Depravity goes in stages - each new barrier that's crossed, the next one pops up & is pushed.
As soon as they get one, the next envelope is pushed; that's human nature and we've seen it in this world for decades now as it slides down into more immorality. Its inevitable.
But GOD calls us to be set apart from that world, and that's what I'll continue to do. He will judge everyone on HIS scales - not ours.

This is a secular nation and women have to have equal rights as men or it's discrimination. If you don't want to go topless: don't. No one is making you.

And others shouldn't be made to stay home becuz there will be nudity on a beach or by a poolside.
Let me tell you, if I was at a resort w/ my husband or boyfriend, I'd be upset as a female to see other topless women waltzing around or laying around in front of him. It isn't right and that should NOT be forced upon people going to poolsides around the country.

And I'm sure a lot of people fought tooth and nail when two piece swim suits were introduced, yet they became mainstream.

Sure, BUT LOOK WHAT IT'S LED TO! toplessness came next! the 2 piece wasn't enough - as I stated above, it's the natural DIGRESSION of immorality. One barrier is pushed down, THE NEXT POPS UP IN ITS PLACE... after topless, where do we go from there?
Look around you and wake up.

Nadiine · May 11, 2008

catlover said:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Annette_Kellerman1.jpg

What a wicked woman for tempting men like that..

I hate to tell you this, BUT THAT IS NOT A SUPPORT FOR TOPLESSNESS.

You could use that picture to say bottomless/full nudity is fine too; it wouldn't be a support.

But you certainly don't look at her as a sex symbol or pay attn. to her body do you? So actually, she's doing the right thing even tho it's out of modern styles today.

& if that was the CULTURE back then when it was taken, why do you mock her now? That WAS in style at that time - isn't that what you're pushing here? To be "current" with the times as they change???

Actually your little stunt here backfires on a few levels and is no support for nudity of any kind.

Nadiine · May 11, 2008

it also backfires in that, it shows you that MODESTY was always to be covered up more.

That's how it was historically - and in biblical times when MODESTY was the standard. Nudity doesn't fit that category and it's NOT Godly.

catlover · May 11, 2008

Nadiine said:
I hate to tell you this, BUT THAT IS NOT A SUPPORT FOR TOPLESSNESS.

You could use that picture to say bottomless/full nudity is fine too; it wouldn't be a support.

But you certainly don't look at her as a sex symbol or pay attn. to her body do you? So actually, she's doing the right thing even tho it's out of modern styles today.

& if that was the CULTURE back then when it was taken, why do you mock her now? That WAS in style at that time - isn't that what you're pushing here? To be "current" with the times as they change???

Actually your little stunt here backfires on a few levels and is no support for nudity of any kind.

My my, such ???? directed at me for simply joking around on the Internet--
perhaps you need to calm down.

As for nudity bare boobs people can choose to be uptight and prudish about The Europeans-they don't seem to have an issue with it.

In fact when and if I do go sun bathing, to a pool, or lake I wear cut offs to my knees and a T-shirt--so Nadine I know about modesty. I simply KNOW norms do not begin or end with American culture-I don't pretend the Bible is synonymous with my AMerican culture....

drstevej · May 11, 2008

Chajara said:
Two things: Why is it that when I'm desensitized to nudity it's because I'm an unrepentant sinner or whatever was said, but a male gynecologist is desensitized to it it's a gift from God? That doesn't make sense. And it doesn't matter anyway, because the entire point is: If you are desensitized, you do not think lust upon seeing someone naked simply because they are naked.

Doctors are desensitized to checking prostates... should that be legalized in public too?

lucyclaire · May 11, 2008

all that aside, I'm STILL waiting for anyone to provide me with all the prominant Christian leaders & teachers who promote female nudity in public.
Which upstanding Christian theologians, apologists, Pastors, teachers, evangelists give women this guideline of going 1/2 naked in public?

Click to expand...

I haven't been to the beach with any Christian leaders to my knowledge just ordinary human beings of various faiths.
However as a lover of art I have been to a local art exhibitions, held in a local Anglican church, containing nude paintings and I do remember seeing Priests and vicars looking at the art, including my own, I even stood beside a 74 year old, much loved priest as he looked at nude paintings of a woman, there was no embarassment, they were beautiful pictures, I never heard him say one word of condemnation or dispproval, nobody walked out in disgust either.
I wonder is what would happen if people that think nudity outside of the marriage bed is a sin would do in an art gallery, what would they do with The Birth of Venus by Botticelli or the beautiful works of art that I grew up with at home.

I have never asked a Priest or a Pastor about his opinion about sunbathing topless, if I am on a beach far away with friends and family with other topless bathers then I don't care, I perfectly happy, nor do I think I am special enough to turn too many heads. Bikini's are just as likely to turn someone on.
I am sure that people here will be telling me that I will be judged and damned to hell but as I like gay people, I like athiests because my Dad is one and I grew up in a house were nudity was never a mystery, I am most likely damned anyway by Christians... Thankfully God doesn't condemn me, if he wanted me to be different I would have been born to different parents and certainly not in London too real lefties..yet I am still able to love Jesus and be proud of my "worldly" parents and learn from their wisdom. I never, ever feel condemned in the presense of Jesus for who I am, just loved, it is only Christians that condemn me.

I have read most of this thread and I ask that you don't come to Europe because you will always be offended by the sculptures, the artwork, the ceilings on the churches in Italy and by the nudity in the summer around beaches, lakes and swimming pools.

I would also just say that if you are that serious about setting people back my the sight of naked flesh, you might want to change your avatar. Plently of men are turned on by bare naked shoulders and halter necks.....

Nadiine · May 11, 2008

Rep Daddy said:
Doctors are desensitized to checking prostates... should that be legalized in public too?

Lord help us all!

karisma · May 11, 2008

Nadiine said:
[/size][/font]
No she should not "just be able to" anymore than they shouldn't be taking bottoms off.
Christians have a higher calling to modesty in moderation and valuing their body than to make it common in open nudity for starters. I'm talking about Christians here, not the world. The world won't find ANY godly reason to do or not do anything; He isn't viewed as their authority.

Than Christians who wish to can remain with their tops on. Everybody wins.

This is why other countries legalize drugs, prostitution, abortion, sex clubs, porn and many other things. It never makes it RIGHT for Christians.

Seriously, I'm not even going to address this as this is completely off topic.

But I was just going on your statement about women doing it for "comfort". If that's the issue, then it's actually the bottoms that are the most uncomfortable, not the tops that can be better adjusted to our comfort level.

That's just your OPINION.

And for that matter, what's to stop them from wanting to go bottomless too? Or doing striptease dancing while they take it off? Why draw a line anywhere & who's to stop it.

Again, not relevent. No one here is advocating going completely nude. It's not sanitary, for one!

It's not discrimination - anymore than not being able to go bottomless is. Everywhere we go, there are rules that exist for reasons.

It is discrimination. There are almost no differences between male and female breasts. Yet one gender has to remain covered. It is discrimination and that's why when people actually fight this in court they are winning.
And what is the reason that exists for women to have their nipples covered? It seems to be fine in other cultures where women are topless. People aren't being mass raped, fights aren't breaking out, men are able to remain in control of themselves, buildings aren't being burned down, fires haven't rained down from the heavens...

ANY rule can be seen as discrimination if you get right down to it.

Rules = "restriction" of some sort.

Yes but restrictions placed only on one gender is discrimination.

What of women who have women's groups - gosh, that's pretty discriminating not to allow men in. We already saw this with a professional golf tournament where a female golfer demanded she be allowed to play even tho the rules are that it's a men's tournament.

This isnt' a thread about golf!

Sorry but this to me is just whiney rebellion, people should grow up & deal with the fact that everything in life is NOT perfectly even nor does it have to be nor should it be.

So women should just be content to be discriminated against?

I don't care what they do or attain; they'll also answer to God for their actions & rebellion. We already have laws that are sinful, adding more doesnt' surprise me as we continue down the slopes we're on. Depravity goes in stages - each new barrier that's crossed, the next one pops up & is pushed.

As soon as they get one, the next envelope is pushed; that's human nature and we've seen it in this world for decades now as it slides down into more immorality. Its inevitable.
But GOD calls us to be set apart from that world, and that's what I'll continue to do. He will judge everyone on HIS scales - not ours.

And personally, I'm glad the envelope has been pushed! If it hadn't, blacks might still be enslaved, women might still not be able to vote, etc. Maybe our ancestors should have been content to be discriminated against!

And others shouldn't be made to stay home becuz there will be nudity on a beach or by a poolside.

We all face male nudity at the beach. We all cope. We all grew up fine (most of us). There are no signs of children growing up any more weird or demented in Europe where topless females are common.

Let me tell you, if I was at a resort w/ my husband or boyfriend, I'd be upset as a female to see other topless women waltzing around or laying around in front of him. It isn't right and that should NOT be forced upon people going to poolsides around the country.

I faced it with my man in Europe (see previous post). It was a bit weird at first but after a couple days neither he nor I saw it as a big deal.

Sure, BUT LOOK WHAT IT'S LED TO! toplessness came next! the 2 piece wasn't enough - as I stated above, it's the natural DIGRESSION of immorality. One barrier is pushed down, THE NEXT POPS UP IN ITS PLACE... after topless, where do we go from there?

Look around you and wake up.

Of course! Women should still be swimming with long shirts and pantaloons! How dare we demand equality with men!

Besides, like I mentioned in a previous post, technically only the woman's nipple must be covered. We are already 9/10 of the way there! How offensive is the female nipple in comparison to men's, that it must be covered!

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