Topless Beaches

[Archivist]

At its October 2004 meeting the California Bar Association adopted a resolution calling for the repeal of state laws that prevent women from exposing their breasts at public beaches. The resolution was framed in terms of equal rights, since their are no laws prohibiting men from going topless in public.

Topless beaches have long been the norm in Europe and in other parts of the world. Women in Canada can legally go topless in public. Until the 1920's it was illegal for men to go topless in much of the United States, yet they now have every right to go topless.

I pose the following question: Should women in fact have the right to go topless in public? Why or why not. If you say that they should not have this right, please explain whether men should be allowed to go topless.

Please observe proper decorum in your responses--I wouldn't want to see this thread shut down.

 

[Umbrage]

Just to clarify: There's a difference between "topless beaches" as specified in your subject and the laws that you are referring too. Going topless in public is vastly different than at a specific place when other people expect to see topless women.

 

[Norea]

I say leave it alone. Who cares who goes topless cept for the men with well ya know the obscene growths on their chestsessss... o.o

-- Bridget

 

[Archivist]

Just to clarify: There's a difference between "topless beaches" as specified in your subject and the laws that you are referring too. Going topless in public is vastly different than at a specific place when other people expect to see topless women.

You are entirely correct. I was assuming that the later paragraphs were building on the initial statement that we were discussing topless beaches, however I should have been more specific.

So, why don't we open this up to two questions: 1) should women have the right to go topless on public beaches, and 2) should women have the right to go topless anywhere else that men are currently permitted to go topless? Why or why not. If the answer is that women should not be able to go topless should men be permitted to go topless.

 

[Nathan David]

1) should women have the right to go topless on public beaches

Yes.

2) should women have the right to go topless anywhere else that men are currently permitted to go topless?

Not necessarily. Let's face it, men's and women's bodies are different so the standard of "nudity" is different. But in other cultures have different standards of nudity that allow women to go topless, and I personally wouldn't have a problem living in one of those cultures and I wouldn't mind if my culture changed to be more like that.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Women in Canada can legally go topless in public.

In New York State as well, though I never personally saw that right exercised.

I pose the following question: Should women in fact have the right to go topless in public? Why or why not.

Considering that there are no public hygene issues, such as would be involved with public bottomlessness, I don't see why not. I don't think adults or children are harmed by the sight of uncovered female breasts.

 

[Alpha Rioja]

It doesn't have to do with it being hygenic it has to do with the fact that a woman's breasts are a part of her sexuality. Men have one (main) part of their sexuality and that's between their legs. Women have two (main) parts one between their legs and their breasts. It would be like a man walking around with his little man exposed. It's public indecency. I don't want to see a bunch of boobs hanging out everywhere. Not that I don't like them but everyday would be filled with a sexual atmosphere. Personally I think rape would go up on the charts among many other things. but that's just my opinion.

 

[Natman]

Personally and scripturally, I believe that women should have right to go topless (or bottomless) anywhere it is practical to do so, and the same for men.

A full study of the Bible will reveal that God never once condemns mere nakedness (non-sexual nudity) as "sinful". God created us "naked and unashamed", and even though we had the fall, we are all still born "naked and unashamed". Instead, it is our society that has forced it's own concept of "body shame" upon us, sexualizing all areas of the body that are normally covered.

I grew up in a family and a neighborhood with plenty of nursing mothers. I have witnessed in amazement at God's design and functionality in the human breast and the unique connection that occurs between a mother and a child because of it. Therefore, because of my maturity about the human body, I see nothing lewd about a bare breast (or any body part) simply being exposed to the vitamin "D" enriching light of day.

Even comparing men and women, I have seen many bare-chested men with larger "breasts" than most women I know. The fact that they are usually covered with hair may be the only clue available to tell them apart.

As far as breasts being "sexual organs", James Dobson, Ed Young, Dennis Rainey and a host of other Christian orators have all said that the number one human sex organ is our minds. Also included are or eyes, our lips, our noses, our hands. That being the case, those that want to cover their sex organs when they go to the beach should rush out and buy a burka.


Soc-cerely in Christ,
Nate

 

[Nathan David]

Not that I don't like them but everyday would be filled with a sexual atmosphere. Personally I think rape would go up on the charts among many other things. but that's just my opinion.

Then why hasn't this happened in Western Europe?

 

[Alpha Rioja]

Personally and scripturally, I believe that women should have right to go topless (or bottomless) anywhere it is practical to do so, and the same for men.

A full study of the Bible will reveal that God never once condemns mere nakedness (non-sexual nudity) as "sinful". God created us "naked and unashamed", and even though we had the fall, we are all still born "naked and unashamed". Instead, it is our society that has forced it's own concept of "body shame" upon us, sexualizing all areas of the body that are normally covered.

I grew up in a family and a neighborhood with plenty of nursing mothers. I have witnessed in amazement at God's design and functionality in the human breast and the unique connection that occurs between a mother and a child because of it. Therefore, because of my maturity about the human body, I see nothing lewd about a bare breast (or any body part) simply being exposed to the vitamin "D" enriching light of day.

Even comparing men and women, I have seen many bare-chested men with larger "breasts" than most women I know. The fact that they are usually covered with hair may be the only clue available to tell them apart.

As far as breasts being "sexual organs", James Dobson, Ed Young, Dennis Rainey and a host of other Christian orators have all said that the number one human sex organ is our minds. Also included are or eyes, our lips, our noses, our hands. That being the case, those that want to cover their sex organs when they go to the beach should rush out and buy a burka.


Soc-cerely in Christ,
Nate

I ask you then. Why did God clothe Adam and Eve right after they sinned. I leave that for you to ponder.

 

[Archivist]

I ask you then. Why did God clothe Adam and Eve right after they sinned. I leave that for you to ponder.

Actually scripture tells us that Adam and Eve first made coverings for themselves. It was only later that God provided them with coverings.

Further, there is nothing in scripture that indicates that Eve's breasts were covered.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I ask you then. Why did God clothe Adam and Eve right after they sinned. I leave that for you to ponder.

Perhaps they needed protection from the elements, since they were cast out of paradise. I don't think the bible says specifically, so the matter is open to interpretation.

 

[Nathan David]

Further, there is nothing in scripture that indicates that Eve's breasts were covered.

Excellent point. Some cultures view naked female breasts as indecent, others do not, and the Bible doesn't talk about breasts specifically.

 

[Natman]

I ask you then. Why did God clothe Adam and Eve right after they sinned. I leave that for you to ponder.

Because they were being cast out of the perfect environment of the garden into the imperfect and hostile environment of the fallen world. God provided skins as protection from the elements as an act of grace.

For an indepth discussion on this topic, read through the posts at http://www.christianforums.com/t51033.

Son-cerely in Christ Jesus,
Nate

 

[Norea]

Yea man, d00d didn't want them to like get chaffed scaley snakey skin and stuffs.

-- Bridget

 

[crossrunner]

I once went running at a beach in NC. The end of the beach was very untouched..no houses, or anything man-made...very lovely. As I was nearing the end of the strand I noticed a couple sitting on beach chairs...middle aged, and as nekkid as the day they were brought into this world. They waved at me (in probably more ways than one) and I smiled and waved back. No biggie. God bless 'em!

 

[Natman]

I once went running at a beach in NC. The end of the beach was very untouched..no houses, or anything man-made...very lovely. As I was nearing the end of the strand I noticed a couple sitting on beach chairs...middle aged, and as nekkid as the day they were brought into this world. They waved at me (in probably more ways than one) and I smiled and waved back. No biggie. God bless 'em!

This would be a "normal" sight, barely worth even noting, throughout much of the rest of the world.

Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[plmarquette]

Personally and scripturally, I believe that women should have right to go topless (or bottomless) anywhere it is practical to do so, and the same for men.

A full study of the Bible will reveal that God never once condemns mere nakedness (non-sexual nudity) as "sinful". God created us "naked and unashamed", and even though we had the fall, we are all still born "naked and unashamed". Instead, it is our society that has forced it's own concept of "body shame" upon us, sexualizing all areas of the body that are normally covered.

I grew up in a family and a neighborhood with plenty of nursing mothers. I have witnessed in amazement at God's design and functionality in the human breast and the unique connection that occurs between a mother and a child because of it. Therefore, because of my maturity about the human body, I see nothing lewd about a bare breast (or any body part) simply being exposed to the vitamin "D" enriching light of day.

Even comparing men and women, I have seen many bare-chested men with larger "breasts" than most women I know. The fact that they are usually covered with hair may be the only clue available to tell them apart.

As far as breasts being "sexual organs", James Dobson, Ed Young, Dennis Rainey and a host of other Christian orators have all said that the number one human sex organ is our minds. Also included are or eyes, our lips, our noses, our hands. That being the case, those that want to cover their sex organs when they go to the beach should rush out and buy a burka.


Soc-cerely in Christ,
Nate

here are a few do not get naked in front of friends , family, strangers ....
Lev 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover [their] nakedness: I [am] the LORD.

Lev 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she [is] thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it [is] thy father's nakedness.

Lev 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, [whether she be] born at home, or born abroad, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

Lev 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs [is] thine own nakedness.

Lev 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she [is] thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she [is] thy father's near kinswoman.

Lev 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she [is] thy mother's near kinswoman.

Lev 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she [is] thine aunt.

Lev 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it [is] thy brother's nakedness.

Lev 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; [for] they [are] her near kinswomen: it [is] wickedness.

Lev 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].

Lev 18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Lev 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it [is] a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

Lev 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Lev 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

Lev 20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

here are a few do not get naked in front of friends , family, strangers ....
Lev 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover [their] nakedness: I [am] the LORD.

Lev 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she [is] thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it [is] thy father's nakedness.

Lev 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, [whether she be] born at home, or born abroad, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

Lev 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs [is] thine own nakedness.

Lev 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she [is] thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she [is] thy father's near kinswoman.

Lev 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she [is] thy mother's near kinswoman.

Lev 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she [is] thine aunt.

Lev 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it [is] thy brother's nakedness.

Lev 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; [for] they [are] her near kinswomen: it [is] wickedness.

Lev 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].

Lev 18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Lev 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it [is] a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

Lev 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Lev 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

Lev 20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

Yep, that there's a lot of Leviticus...

Most of those passages mentions uncovering someone (stripping them naked). That's not the same as being naked in front of someone, so we can disregard those passages. Others insinuate adultery and other forms of sex, so we can disregard those.

And aren't Christians not under Levitical law now anyway?

 

[Archivist]

here are a few do not get naked in front of friends , family, strangers ....
Lev 18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover [their] nakedness: I [am] the LORD.

Lev 18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she [is] thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it [is] thy father's nakedness.

Lev 18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, [whether she be] born at home, or born abroad, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

Lev 18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs [is] thine own nakedness.

Lev 18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she [is] thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she [is] thy father's near kinswoman.

Lev 18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she [is] thy mother's near kinswoman.

Lev 18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she [is] thine aunt.

Lev 18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

Lev 18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it [is] thy brother's nakedness.

Lev 18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; [for] they [are] her near kinswomen: it [is] wickedness.

Lev 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].

Lev 18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

Lev 20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Lev 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it [is] a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

Lev 20:18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Lev 20:19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

Lev 20:20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

These are all good and fine, but we aren't talking about "nakedness" here, this thread is discussing whether or not women should be permitted to go topless either on beaches or in public. Outside of the US and the Arab nations, most of the world does not regard exposed female breasts as "nakedness."

If you are saying that women going topless is "nakedness" then what about men. Should they permitted to go topless? Under your definition does that also represent "nakedness?"