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Top Ten Problems with Darwinian Evolution

gluadys

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Why would a bird ever have arms? Birds are one kind, not evolved from something else. Finding a bird with arms would disprove creation, and prove evolution. Not the other way around as you want to twist it.



On the contrary. A creator (or designer) could create/design a creature that has both arms and wings, (consider angels) or four legs and wings (like cherubim or dragons) or even three pairs of wings (like seraphim).

But these types of creatures could never be produced by evolution since bird wings evolved from arms/forelegs and replaced them rather than being added to them. No problem though with a creator/designer modifying the bird design to add arms.

So finding a creature of this sort would be evidence that it had not, could not have evolved and must have been created.

So typical of creationists get their thinking so reversed that they believe something that would falsify evolution is needed to prove it.
 
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EternalDragon

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On the contrary. A creator (or designer) could create/design a creature that has both arms and wings, (consider angels) or four legs and wings (like cherubim or dragons) or even three pairs of wings (like seraphim).

But these types of creatures could never be produced by evolution since bird wings evolved from arms/forelegs and replaced them rather than being added to them. No problem though with a creator/designer modifying the bird design to add arms.

So finding a creature of this sort would be evidence that it had not, could not have evolved and must have been created.

So typical of creationists get their thinking so reversed that they believe something that would falsify evolution is needed to prove it.

So a creature with fur, webbed feet, lays eggs, has a ducks bill and poison glands, wouldn't do it?

 
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Skaloop

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So a creature with fur, webbed feet, lays eggs, has a ducks bill and poison glands, wouldn't do it?


A platypus does not have a duck's bill. It has something that superficially resembles a duck's bill.
 
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lasthero

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So a creature with fur

Mammals have fur, yes. What's your point?

webbed feet

So do otters and beavers. It's common among animals that spend a lot of time in the water. What's your point?

lays eggs

It's a monotreme, so yeah, it lays eggs. What's your point?

has a ducks bill

It's not actually a duck's bill, it just looks like one. Seriously, read up on stuff. Even a Wikipedia article.

and poison glands

Other mammals have poison, too; it's a common trait among all sorts of animals and plants. What's your point? Yeah, the platypus is a weird looking creature, but it doesn't have a single thing that other mammals don't have. There's nothing that makes it a hybrid bird snake or whatever you're trying to imply.
 
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OllieFranz

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Other mammals have poison, too; it's a common trait among all sorts of animals and plants. What's your point? Yeah, the platypus is a weird looking creature, but it doesn't have a single thing that other mammals don't have. There's nothing that makes it a hybrid bird snake or whatever you're trying to imply.

This was a better attempt than most of ED's posts, considering that even naturalists at first thought the platypus must be a hoax because, based on a casual inspection of its external morphology, it did seem to be similar to US' examples. It takes a look at the deeper morphology, at the genetics, the biochemistry, all of which agree with one another and with the predictions of the Evolutionary Model.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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This was a better attempt than most of ED's posts, considering that even naturalists at first thought the platypus must be a hoax because, based on a casual inspection of its external morphology, it did seem to be similar to US' examples. It takes a look at the deeper morphology, at the genetics, the biochemistry, all of which agree with one another and with the predictions of the Evolutionary Model.


No, the Platypus shows that you contradict what your own definition of mammal is by labeling it as a mammal. As we have gone over and over and over, it is evolutionists that have a species problem. It is evolutionists that have the name game problem.

That say mammals give birth to live young, then classify an egg laying creature as a mammal. Just as you once classified all dinosaur as cold-blooded reptiles. Reptiles that evolved into birds but birds are not of the class reptile.

Sure, whatever you say.
 
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lasthero

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it is evolutionists that have a species problem.

Mammal is a class, not a species.

That say mammals give birth to live young, then classify an egg laying creature as a mammal.

Please show a definition of mammal that say that ALL mammals give birth to live young.

Just as you once classified all dinosaur as cold-blooded reptiles.

When presented with new data, findings change. Why do you act like this is a bad thing?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Mammal is a class, not a species.



Please show a definition of mammal that say that ALL mammals give birth to live young.

Technically They might be, it would just be every other species you call mammal that wouldn't be.

Mammal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Amniote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
he amniotes are a group of tetrapods (four-limbed animals with backbones or spinal columns) that have an egg equipped with an amnios, an adaptation to lay eggs on land rather than in water as anamniotes do

So that leaves out man, apes, whales, dolphin, lion, cat, dog, as none of them lay eggs on land.

So yah, I will go for a platypus being a mamal after all, just none of the rest then.



When presented with new data, findings change. Why do you act like this is a bad thing?

Because your theory never changes, even when contradicted by the evidence. You just change a few words, then use the same basics that were just falsified by the incorrect belief.

Just as in astronomy. You refuse to accept the data, just tweak the numbers when the data falsifies your theory. Adding more Fairie Dust on top of Fairie Dust. Never once re-examining the underlying incorrect assumptions that lead to what caused the theory to be incorrect in the first place.
 
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lasthero

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Technically They might be, it would just be every other species you call mammal that wouldn't be.

Technically nothing, they're mammals. Why do you feel egg-laying would change that?

So that leaves out man, apes, whales, dolphin, lion, cat, dog, as none of them lay eggs on land.

And this is the part of that you cut out.

They include synapsids (mammals along with their extinct kin) and sauropsids (reptiles and birds), as well as their fossil ancestors. Amniote embryos, whether laid as eggs or carried by the female, are protected and aided by several extensive membranes. In eutherian mammals (such as humans), these membranes include the amniotic sac that surrounds the fetus. These embryonic membranes, and the lack of a larval stage, distinguish amniotes from tetrapod amphibians.[1]

Because your theory never changes, even when contradicted by the evidence.
Yes, it does.
 
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EternalDragon

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Other mammals have poison, too; it's a common trait among all sorts of animals and plants. What's your point? Yeah, the platypus is a weird looking creature, but it doesn't have a single thing that other mammals don't have. There's nothing that makes it a hybrid bird snake or whatever you're trying to imply.

The fact that we do not see these things is, in itself, evidence for a creator. It is also evidence that apparently evolution does have limits.

God designed creatures he made at the beginning to be able to adapt through natural selection. After the flood they did so and we have what we see today. Pretty much evolved out after 4000 years and no longer able to interbreed if they are too far apart. Accumulating more and more mutations and getting worse.
 
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lasthero

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The fact that we do not see these things is, in itself, evidence for a creator.

How? Heck, what isn't evidence for a creator, in your mind?

It is also evidence that apparently evolution does have limits.

No, it isn't.

Pretty much evolved out after 4000 years and no longer able to interbreed if they are too far apart. Accumulating more and more mutations and getting worse.

Asserted without evidence? Dismissed without evidence.
 
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Subduction Zone

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The fact that we do not see these things is, in itself, evidence for a creator. It is also evidence that apparently evolution does have limits.

God designed creatures he made at the beginning to be able to adapt through natural selection. After the flood they did so and we have what we see today. Pretty much evolved out after 4000 years and no longer able to interbreed if they are too far apart. Accumulating more and more mutations and getting worse.

Please, you must be old enough to know the flood was a myth.

We knew that long before creationism even came along.

If you know that little science why are you trying to debate science?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Technically nothing, they're mammals. Why do you feel egg-laying would change that?



And this is the part of that you cut out.

They include synapsids (mammals along with their extinct kin) and sauropsids (reptiles and birds), as well as their fossil ancestors. Amniote embryos, whether laid as eggs or carried by the female, are protected and aided by several extensive membranes. In eutherian mammals (such as humans), these membranes include the amniotic sac that surrounds the fetus. These embryonic membranes, and the lack of a larval stage, distinguish amniotes from tetrapod amphibians.[1]


Yes, it does.


So mammals are therefore any animal on this earth or in the sea. Such as whales, and dinosaurs which were reptiles but are mamals and birds that were reptiles but not mammals and are now not reptiles.

But a reptile is not a bird or a mamal.

A reptile is any amniote (tetrapod that can lay eggs on land) that is neither a mammal nor a bird.

So birds are not mammals, nor are they reptiles. As a human is not a mammal as it neither lays eggs on land, nor does it lay eggs in the sea, doesn't lay eggs at all. But birds lay eggs on land, are warm blooded, respirate through lungs, but are not mammals because they fly or have feathers?

Or would that just be a holdover from the days when you thought dino were cold-blooded and not mammals, so didn't classify the bird as a mammal since you thought they came from dino?

So if birds came from dino, and birds are not mammal or reptilian, then dinosaur were neither reptilian nor mammals.

So what you are telling me is mammals is so undefined that it can include any class really, except for some reason you excluded birds, when they are descended from tetropods that lay eggs on land.

So if you really believe in evolution, why are you classifying anything at all? Nothing will be the same in the future according to you. A feline will no longer be a feline, an ape an ape, but a man. Your classifications would then be rendered useless. Or one would mistakenly believe two dogs are of seperate species, while believeing that they all came from the same common ancestor. Showing once again kind after kind, not species after species.

You cant even define mammal without breaking your own rules. It is any amniote (a land egg laying creature), but its also any warm blooded, unless they are birds. Feathers shouldn't matter as whales don't have feathers, nor lay eggs on land. But we will add another exception and include live bearing amniotes, just not birds. We will now include birds because we figured out dino are not cold-blooded and are not reptiles, but leave the reptile deffinition to be any land egg laying tetrepod not a mammal, or a bird.

If a bird is a mammal, why the distinction, mammal or bird? Should be just mammal should it not?

But birds are not mammals, nor are they reptiles. So they could not have evolved from dinosaur which you classify as mammal or reptile, you have done both, not aves.

The simple fact is you had mammal dino, reptile dino, aves dino. That life went extinct. A new life sprang up in its place, one that never existed before, at any time in the fossil record. The bones of modern animals can be found no earlier than the bones of man. Some survived that cataclysm, shark, crocodile for example. Those that did survive have the same basic appearance except for size and slight variations as they did hundreds of millions of years ago. Yet everything else on this Earth spotaneously evolved into forms never seen before?
 
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Subduction Zone

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So mammals are therefore any animal on this earth or in the sea. Such as whales, and dinosaurs which were reptiles but are mamals and birds that were reptiles but not mammals and are now not reptiles.

But a reptile is not a bird or a mamal.

No, you misread the definition. Try again.


So birds are not mammals, nor are they reptiles. As a human is not a mammal as it neither lays eggs on land, nor does it lay eggs in the sea, doesn't lay eggs at all. But birds lay eggs on land, are warm blooded, respirate through lungs, but are not mammals because they fly or have feathers?

Still not quite getting that mammal definition, are you?
Or would that just be a holdover from the days when you thought dino were cold-blooded and not mammals, so didn't classify the bird as a mammal since you thought they came from dino?

What!?

So if birds came from dino, and birds are not mammal or reptilian, then dinosaur were neither reptilian nor mammals.

Oh my FSM!!! He got one right.

So what you are telling me is mammals is so undefined that it can include any class really, except for some reason you excluded birds, when they are descended from tetropods that lay eggs on land.

Umm, no. Try again.

So if you really believe in evolution, why are you classifying anything at all? Nothing will be the same in the future according to you. A feline will no longer be a feline, an ape an ape, but a man. Your classifications would then be rendered useless. Or one would mistakenly believe two dogs are of seperate species, while believeing that they all came from the same common ancestor. Showing once again kind after kind, not species after species.

We are not making the same errors that you are.
You cant even define mammal without breaking your own rules. It is any amniote (a land egg laying creature), but its also any warm blooded, unless they are birds. Feathers shouldn't matter as whales don't have feathers, nor lay eggs on land. But we will add another exception and include live bearing amniotes, just not birds. We will now include birds because we figured out dino are not cold-blooded and are not reptiles, but leave the reptile deffinition to be any land egg laying tetrepod not a mammal, or a bird.

Wrong, go back and look at the definition again.

If a bird is a mammal, why the distinction, mammal or bird? Should be just mammal should it not?

You really can't be this ignorant, can you?
But birds are not mammals, nor are they reptiles. So they could not have evolved from dinosaur which you classify as mammal or reptile, you have done both, not aves.

Oh, you are.
The simple fact is you had mammal dino, reptile dino, aves dino. That life went extinct. A new life sprang up in its place, one that never existed before, at any time in the fossil record. The bones of modern animals can be found no earlier than the bones of man. Some survived that cataclysm, shark, crocodile for example. Those that did survive have the same basic appearance except for size and slight variations as they did hundreds of millions of years ago. Yet everything else on this Earth spotaneously evolved into forms never seen before?



Wow!! So much wrong it is hard to believe.
 
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lasthero

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So mammals are therefore any animal on this earth or in the sea. Such as whales, and dinosaurs which were reptiles but are mamals and birds that were reptiles but not mammals and are now not reptiles.

No. Amniotes are a clade that include reptiles, birds and mammals, which are classes. Just because mammals are amniotes doesn't mean that reptiles are mammals. This is not a difficult concept.

s a human is not a mammal as it neither lays eggs on land, nor does it lay eggs in the sea, doesn't lay eggs at all.

Nobody said that laying eggs on the land or sea was a requirement for being a mammal.

But birds lay eggs on land, are warm blooded, respirate through lungs, but are not mammals because they fly or have feathers?

Among a whole host of other things that distinguish them from reptiles and mammals.

Or would that just be a holdover from the days when you thought dino were cold-blooded and not mammals

Dinosaurs aren't mammals. That hasn't changed. Being warm-blooded doesn't make them mammals. And yes, most scientists believe that dinosaurs were warm-blooded.

You're getting into rambling, Gish Gallop territory, so I'll sum up - you seem to be suggesting that, because life is complex, that trying to classify it is a lost cause. That's ridiculous.

Yes, classifying things is no simple process. Animals haven't evolved into neat little categories. That's a prediction of evolution. That doesn't mean that classifying them is a vain effort. What you're doing is committing the continuum fallacy - rejecting a vague claim because it's not as specific as you'd like it to be. Vagueness does not imply invalidity.
 
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USincognito

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No, the Platypus shows that you contradict what your own definition of mammal is by labeling it as a mammal.

The primary characteristic of mammals are mammary glands, not live births. It's axiomatic really, you can see it right in the word "mammal". :doh:
 
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Loudmouth

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So a creature with fur, webbed feet, lays eggs, has a ducks bill and poison glands, wouldn't do it?



Surely a common designer would use the same beak for both, right? If we find that they are different beaks would that falsify a common designer?
 
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Loudmouth

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The fact that we do not see these things is, in itself, evidence for a creator. It is also evidence that apparently evolution does have limits.

God designed creatures he made at the beginning to be able to adapt through natural selection. After the flood they did so and we have what we see today. Pretty much evolved out after 4000 years and no longer able to interbreed if they are too far apart. Accumulating more and more mutations and getting worse.

I see a lot of claims, but zero evidence for any of them.
 
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Split Rock

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So a creature with fur, webbed feet, lays eggs, has a ducks bill and poison glands, wouldn't do it?


1. Many mammals have webbed feet... that means nothing but adaption to an aquatic or semi-aquatic life. Heck, some people are born with webbing between their digits.

2. It lays leatherly reptile-like eggs, not like a bird's with a hard shell. This points out the connection mammals have with reptiles, perfectly in line with evolutionary theory.

3. Its bill is not actually like a duck's. It is soft, not hard. It is a sensory organ with the mouth on the underside, rather than in between.

4. Poison glands can be found in many types of creatures, much like webbing.

FAIL.
 
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Split Rock

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No, the Platypus shows that you contradict what your own definition of mammal is by labeling it as a mammal. As we have gone over and over and over, it is evolutionists that have a species problem. It is evolutionists that have the name game problem.

That say mammals give birth to live young, then classify an egg laying creature as a mammal. Just as you once classified all dinosaur as cold-blooded reptiles. Reptiles that evolved into birds but birds are not of the class reptile.

Sure, whatever you say.

Its hilarious that you creationists smugly bring up the platypus so often, as if it strikes a blow against evil evolution. In fact, it supports the theory that mammals evolved from reptiles, because it is a mammal with reptilian traits. This is evidenced even at the DNA level.

Because of the early divergence from the therian mammals and the low numbers of extant monotreme species, the platypus is a frequent subject of research in evolutionary biology. In 2004, researchers at the Australian National University discovered the platypus has ten sex chromosomes, compared with two (XY) in most other mammals (for instance, a male platypus is always XYXYXYXYXY),[66] although given the XY designation of mammals, the sex chromosomes of the platypus are more similar to the ZZ/ZW sex chromosomes found in birds.[67] The platypus genome also has both reptilian and mammalian genes associated with egg fertilisation.[35][68] Since the platypus lacks the mammalian sex-determining gene SRY, the mechanism of sex determination remains unknown.[69] A draft version of the platypus genome sequence was published in Nature on 8 May 2008, revealing both reptilian and mammalian elements, as well as two genes found previously only in birds, amphibians, and fish. More than 80% of the platypus' genes are common to the other mammals whose genomes have been sequenced.[35]​
Platypus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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