Top Ten Problems with Darwinian Evolution

[StormanNorman]

And I am sure yours is based upon the fact that they are all similar, all share the same genetic code? Yet you classify them as different species???

Actually, I have never studied spiders. And, thankfully, I have the good sense not to say things like "all spiders are similar" on a message board that likely includes a good many real scientists.

On what basis? Some spin different webs? Some live in the ground instead of in trees? Oh yah, that's real scientific.

Why don't you classify Chinese people as a different species than Blacks? You do that with the same kind of cats and dogs??? Even though we have personally witnessed the breeding of all dogs from the wolf stock.

Evolutionists still can't make up their minds what species are.

There is probably some truth to that. Since the theory of evolution claims that there is constant speciation among the species, it may not be so simple to draw a line between different species. At what point are they no longer the same species?

 

[EternalDragon]

Since when? Last I checked, they (bears and bats) are put in the mammal kind because they are similar.

I don't think it's quite like you explain.

Mammals (class Mammalia /məˈmeɪli.ə/) are a clade of endothermic amniotes. Among the features that distinguish them from the other amniotes, the reptiles and the birds, are hair, three middle ear bones, mammary glands in females, and a neocortex (a region of the brain).

Mammal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't think it's quite like you explain.

Mammals (class Mammalia /məˈmeɪli.ə/) are a clade of endothermic amniotes. Among the features that distinguish them from the other amniotes, the reptiles and the birds, are hair, three middle ear bones, mammary glands in females, and a neocortex (a region of the brain).

Mammal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you think that bats and bears don't have those similarities?

You know, the ones that make them mammals?

 

[Loudmouth]

I don't think it's quite like you explain.

Mammals (class Mammalia /məˈmeɪli.ə/) are a clade of endothermic amniotes. Among the features that distinguish them from the other amniotes, the reptiles and the birds, are hair, three middle ear bones, mammary glands in females, and a neocortex (a region of the brain).

Mammal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You just listed some of the features that make all mammals look similar. Your point?

 

[EternalDragon]

You just listed some of the features that make all mammals look similar. Your point?

I see.....hair.

It seemed that SZ made it out to be that they (bat and bear) look similar in more than just hair.

 

[lasthero]

I see.....hair.

It seemed that SZ made it out to be that they (bat and bear) look similar in more than just hair.

They do. Can't you even read the entire thing you posted? It lists more similarities than just hair. And it's only giving examples - there are other similarities in mammals, too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I see.....hair.

It seemed that SZ made it out to be that they (bat and bear) look similar in more than just hair.

And there's your problem.

You stop looking at things way too soon. You really don't want to know how animals are similar or dissimilar.

 

[Loudmouth]

I see.....hair.

It seemed that SZ made it out to be that they (bat and bear) look similar in more than just hair.

Did you read the part your copy and paste? There are also other features such as three middle ear bones, specialized cheek teeth, 7 cervical vertebrae, single lower jaw bone, warm blooded, mammary glands, live birth (for placental mammals), limbs exit the body perpendicular to the ground, and many other features.

 

[EternalDragon]

And there's your problem.

You stop looking at things way too soon. You really don't want to know how animals are similar or dissimilar.

No, I think my problem is that I am picturing a bear and a bat in my mind and then I see you post that they are similar.

I think your problem is you see a few similarities and label them similar yet miss all the differences that outweigh the few similarities.

 

[lasthero]

No, I think my problem is that I am picturing a bear and a bat in my mind and then I see you post that they are similar.

I think your problem is you see a few similarities and label them similar yet miss all the differences that outweigh the few similarities.

You might not be aware of this, but creatures have things on the inside, too. Two creatures can look very much alike but vary considerably, and vice versa.

 

[Loudmouth]

No, I think my problem is that I am picturing a bear and a bat in my mind and then I see you post that they are similar.

I think your problem is you see a few similarities and label them similar yet miss all the differences that outweigh the few similarities.

Then the differences between chihuahuas and great danes outweighs their similarities, so they are in different kinds. Since we know that chihuahuas and great danes came from wolves we have an observed instance of one kind producing another:

 

[OllieFranz]

You might not be aware of this, but creatures have things on the inside, too. Two creatures can look very much alike but vary considerably, and vice versa.

Take, for example, a shark, a dolphin and a bear. On a cursory examination, the bear seems the odd one out. But if you examine their teeth, their skeletons, their reproductive systems, their biochemistry, their DNA, and dozens of other things that might shed light on who is related to whom and how closely, it is the shark that is left behind.

 

[lasthero]

Take, for example, a shark, a dolphin and a bear. On a cursory examination, the bear seems the odd one out. But if you examine their teeth, their skeletons, their reproductive systems, their biochemistry, their DNA, and dozens of other things that might shed light on who is related to whom and how closely, it is the shark that is left behind.

Great point, thanks.

Going back to bats, a lot of people think they're related to mice just based on their looks - in truth, bats have much, much more in common with bears than mice.

 

[gluadys]

No, I think my problem is that I am picturing a bear and a bat in my mind and then I see you post that they are similar.

I think your problem is you see a few similarities and label them similar yet miss all the differences that outweigh the few similarities.

Yet when it comes to spiders, you look at a few similarities and decree them similar while dismissing all the differences. Why don't the differences in spiders also outweigh the few similarities just as in mammals? Or vice versa?

Rationally, you can't use one rule for one group (significant differences outweigh a few similarities) and the opposite rule for the other (a few similarities outweigh significant differences).

 

[Split Rock]

Evolutionists still can't make up their minds what species are.

That is because species are fluid, not fixed. "Kinds" on the other hand, are fixed, since they were created separately and uniquely. Funny how you guys cannot grasp the difference.

Funny how bears and bats do not even look similar, yet spiders do. As do cats, dogs, whales, shark, etc, etc, etc. It is evolutionists that say that bear and bat, shark and spider, all came from the same common ancestor, not me. I'm not that confused about naming things to make that illogical leap.

Yeah, you're the guy who thinks spiders are insects. But we are the confused ones, right?

Have you seen my treatisie on the Creepy-Crawly Kind? Its based on cutting-edge creationist thinking. Take a look: http://www.christianforums.com/t7768424/

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yet when it comes to spiders, you look at a few similarities and decree them similar while dismissing all the differences. Why don't the differences in spiders also outweigh the few similarities just as in mammals? Or vice versa?

Rationally, you can't use one rule for one group (significant differences outweigh a few similarities) and the opposite rule for the other (a few similarities outweigh significant differences).

I am confused, are you arguing for evolution or against it?

What similarities between bats and bears? All I see are differences, in not only form, but size, ecological niche, mating habits, feeding habits. The only thing they have in common is they breath through respiration, give birth to live offspring and are warm blooded. Well that just covers 1/4 of the world, and excludes 3/4 of it.

Yes, these two look so similar.

http://images.nationalgeographic.co.../005/cache/common-vampire-bat_505_600x450.jpg

http://inserbia.info/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/grizzly.jpg

While these, these have so many differences.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/zoo384l/sirena/species/spiders/photos/15spiders.jpg

Thanks for pointing that out and setting me straight. For a minute I thought spiders all looked generally alike, like as with dogs and cats. But know I realize just how much bears and bats look exactly alike. I was confused there for a bit and just thought bears and bats didn't look alike at all, while spiders did. Silly me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am confused, are you arguing for evolution or against it?

What similarities between bats and bears? All I see are differences, in not only form, but size, ecological niche, mating habits, feeding habits. The only thing they have in common is they breath through respiration, give birth to live offspring and are warm blooded. Well that just covers 1/4 of the world, and excludes 3/4 of it.

Yes, these two look so similar.

http://images.nationalgeographic.co.../005/cache/common-vampire-bat_505_600x450.jpg

http://inserbia.info/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/grizzly.jpg

While these, these have so many differences.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/zoo384l/sirena/species/spiders/photos/15spiders.jpg

Thanks for pointing that out and setting me straight. For a minute I thought spiders all looked generally alike, like as with dogs and cats. But know I realize just how much bears and bats look exactly alike. I was confused there for a bit and just thought bears and bats didn't look alike at all, while spiders did. Silly me.

Your own self inflicted ignorance cannot be used to argue against evolution.

All it does is to make you a laughing stock.

 

[Split Rock]

I am confused, are you arguing for evolution or against it?

What similarities between bats and bears? All I see are differences, in not only form, but size, ecological niche, mating habits, feeding habits. The only thing they have in common is they breath through respiration, give birth to live offspring and are warm blooded. Well that just covers 1/4 of the world, and excludes 3/4 of it.

Yes, these two look so similar.

http://images.nationalgeographic.co.../005/cache/common-vampire-bat_505_600x450.jpg

http://inserbia.info/news/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/grizzly.jpg

While these, these have so many differences.

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/zoo384l/sirena/species/spiders/photos/15spiders.jpg

Thanks for pointing that out and setting me straight. For a minute I thought spiders all looked generally alike, like as with dogs and cats. But know I realize just how much bears and bats look exactly alike. I was confused there for a bit and just thought bears and bats didn't look alike at all, while spiders did. Silly me.

Wow. left a few similarities out, didn't we? Let's look ar a few off the top of my head:
1. Same skeletal arrangement, with four limbs.
2. Same cardio-vascular system, both with 4-chambered hearts.
3. Same nervous system; both with large brains.
4. Same lymphatic system.
5. Same digestive system.
6. Same reproductive system
7. Both have hair
8. Both have backbones (vertebrates)
9. Both bilaterally symmetric
10. Both kill and eat other animals.

Silly you, indeed...

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Wow. left a few similarities out, didn't we? Let's look ar a few off the top of my head:
1. Same skeletal arrangement, with four limbs.
2. Same cardio-vascular system, both with 4-chambered hearts.
3. Same nervous system; both with large brains.
4. Same lymphatic system.
5. Same digestive system.
6. Same reproductive system
7. Both have hair
8. Both have backbones (vertebrates)
9. Both bilaterally symmetric
10. Both kill and eat other animals.

Silly you, indeed...

Spiders

1. Same general limb arrangements
2. Same vascualr system.
3. Same nervous system.
4. same in everything but looks.

While you want bears and bats to be the same kind, Just a riot.

As a matter of fact you want every living thing on this planet to be descended from the same original species. Yet never fail to argue that the genetic pool with just two animals would not be sufficient to continue the species.

So now not only is evolution a one in a billion shot, but you want the exact same creatures, all over the globe, to evolve all at the exact same time into the exact same creatures, not once, but billions of times.

Because all you have are fossil records that show kind after kind after kind.

Hows that DNA matching between bears and bats going? Or between bears and spiders?


You people are just so silly.

Does this mean that I am a bat too, since I share all the same similarities you think make bears and bats the same? Or would maybe Chinese, African, Italian, Japanese, English, even though all different races be humans, all the same kind? Like doberman, chow, rottweiler, wolf, all different breeds, but all the same kind. Like lion, tiger, jaguar, panther, all different breeds, but all the same kind. Like black bear, polar bear, brown bear, panda, different breeds, but all the same kind. Like vampire bat, fruit bat, bulldog bat, all different breeds, but all the same kind. Like tarantula, black widow, orbweaver, all different breeds, but all the same kind.

Sure makes more common sense and agrees with genetic testing than putting a bear and bat into the same kind. All you see are bats becoming bats, bears becoming bears, spiders becoming spiders, cats becoming cats, dogs becoming dogs. Never once have you ever observed anything different. You got not one shred of evidence that such has ever occurred, in the present, or in the past.


Mammals is not a species, it is a man-made class consisting of hundreds and thousands of species or kinds, like insects. Until you fix your species problem you will forever be confused.

Where are the babies?
Cut up some of those precious bones please.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_shape_shifting_dinosaurs.html

The evidence is right in front of you.

 

[Loudmouth]

What similarities between bats and bears? All I see are differences, in not only form, but size, ecological niche, mating habits, feeding habits.

Birds also differ by those same things, and yet you claim that all birds are in the same kind. Spiders come in all sizes and forms, not to mention that they fill many different niches. Spiders have different mating habits and feeding habits. You still claim that spiders are all in the same kind.

Obviously, you are not using these criteria to determine kinds.

The only thing they have in common is they breath through respiration, give birth to live offspring and are warm blooded.

You forgot three middle ear bones, single dentary, 7 cervical vertebrae, specialized cheek teeth, mammary glands, two occipital condyles, and many more.