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Top Ten Problems with Darwinian Evolution

Skaloop

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That is not an over simplification. Bears are a kind, dogs are a kind, cats are a kind, horses are a kind, spiders are a kind, apes and monkeys are a kind, humans are a kind. Now you can stop asking for a definition.

But you still haven't provided a definition. As an analogy, saying that a Ford is a car and a Honda is a car and a Toyota is a car and a Chevy is a car doesn't actually define what a car is. Similarly, you saying what is a kind doesn't define what a kind is.
 
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Cheeky Monkey

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Genetics Is Too Complex for Evolutionists to Fake It Anymore - Evolution News & Views

Mammals are not a kind because it is too broad of a definition.

That is not an over simplification. Bears are a kind, dogs are a kind, cats are a kind, horses are a kind, spiders are a kind, apes and monkeys are a kind, humans are a kind. Now you can stop asking for a definition.
We'll keep asking as long as you keep refusing to give one. Examples aren't a definition.
Those processes cause variety in a kind.
A kind like mammal-kind? Or primate-kind? Or tetrapod-kind? Yes that's right. So you do accept evolution then.
Nothing more. The idea that a lot of time will cause change to a new kind is wishful thinking at best and has no evidence in science. From the fossil record onward.

No one is proposing a change in kind. Tetrapods have always been tetrapods and will always give birth to tetrapods.
 
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Loudmouth

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Empty assertions from a creationist site. Go figure.

Mammals are not a kind because it is too broad of a definition.

Based on what criteria?

That is not an over simplification. Bears are a kind, dogs are a kind, cats are a kind, horses are a kind, spiders are a kind, apes and monkeys are a kind, humans are a kind. Now you can stop asking for a definition.

We will stop asking when you give a definition. When will that be?

Those processes cause variety in a kind.

Until you tell us the criteria for determining a kind this claim is useless.
 
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lasthero

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But you still haven't provided a definition. As an analogy, saying that a Ford is a car and a Honda is a car and a Toyota is a car and a Chevy is a car doesn't actually define what a car is. Similarly, you saying what is a kind doesn't define what a kind is.

...I'm calling jinx.
 
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Skaloop

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EternalDragon

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And they were all refuted. Three times. Four if you count when theBeardedDude tore them apart a few pages back.

So are you going to defend them?

I can refute your comment that they were refuted. Does that make your comment refuted that they were not refuted?

Saying junk DNA is still junk DNA when science has proven it not to be is not a refute. Saying natural selection does something it does not is not a refute. Saying chimp DNA proves common ancestry when it absolutely does not, is not a refute. (There are too many genetic differences to link us to chimps and it is not supported by the fossil record. There are only so many ways to write code in a meaningful way. Finding similarities means nothing.)

Darwinian Logic: The Latest on Chimp and Human DNA - Evolution News & Views

P.S. to Loudmouth. Those links are to an Intelligent Designer, Evolution, Science, academic Freedom, culture and ethics, faith and science site.
 
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lasthero

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spiders are a kind

Also, hold on, did you or did you not say that you thought spiders were more than one kind?

Spiders maybe more than two.It would require a lot of researching and even scientists are not so clear on the family, order, etc. classifications.

So I'm guessing you did that 'lot of research' if you're sure that spiders are all one kind, now. Tell me, how did you reach that conclusion?
 
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Loudmouth

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Saying junk DNA is still junk DNA when science has proven it not to be is not a refute.

Where has science proven that it is not junk?

Saying natural selection does something it does not is not a refute.

Care to be more specific?

Saying chimp DNA proves common ancestry when it absolutely does not, is not a refute. (There are too many genetic differences to link us to chimps and it is not supported by the fossil record. There are only so many ways to write code in a meaningful way. Finding similarities means nothing.)

How did you determine that there are too many differences, and why don't the hominid transitionals support common ancestry?


Your source is citing evolution of human and chimp DNA as evidence against evolution. How sad is that?
 
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lasthero

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I can refute your comment that they were refuted. Does that make your comment refuted that they were not refuted?

Saying junk DNA is still junk DNA when science has proven it not to be is not a refute. Saying natural selection does something it does not is not a refute. Saying chimp DNA proves common ancestry when it absolutely does not, is not a refute. (There are too many genetic differences to link us to chimps and it is not supported by the fossil record. There are only so many ways to write code in a meaningful way. Finding similarities means nothing.)

Darwinian Logic: The Latest on Chimp and Human DNA - Evolution News & Views

P.S. to Loudmouth. Those links are to an Intelligent Designer, Evolution, Science, academic Freedom, culture and ethics, faith and science site.

Completely ignoring the point.

Those three posts that responded to your initial copy-paste job dealt with a variety of subjects. You haven't come close to dealing with all of them. Why not? You're focusing on one point and ignoring all the others that were addressed.
 
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Cheeky Monkey

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I can refute your comment that they were refuted.
I am skeptical of your claim and can find no evidence that you can support it.
Does that make your comment refuted that they were not refuted?

Saying junk DNA is still junk DNA when science has proven it not to be is not a refute.
I'm willing to bet you can't explain how "science has proven" that there's no junk DNA.
Saying natural selection does something it does not is not a refute. Saying chimp DNA proves common ancestry when it absolutely does not, is not a refute.
But the evidence that humans and chimps share common ancestry does refute the claim that they don't.
(There are too many genetic differences to link us to chimps and it is not supported by the fossil record. There are only so many ways to write code in a meaningful way. Finding similarities means nothing.)
"Finding similarities means nothing"??? So every DNA forensics case and paternity suit can be thrown out then?
Darwinian Logic: The Latest on Chimp and Human DNA - Evolution News & Views

P.S. to Loudmouth. Those links are to an Intelligent Designer, Evolution, Science, academic Freedom, culture and ethics, faith and science site.
A lying pack of propaganda scum bags.
 
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Loudmouth

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P.S. to Loudmouth. Those links are to an Intelligent Designer, Evolution, Science, academic Freedom, culture and ethics, faith and science site.

It is a creationist site built on the premise of spreading lies about science. For example, this argument from the link you gave us:

So we're left with the following argument:
    1. The (protein-coding) DNA of chimps and humans is similar. Therefore, the two species share a common ancestor.
    2. The (non-protein-coding DNA) of chimps and humans is NOT similar. Therefore, the two species share a common ancestor and the dissimilarity explains their differences.
That is a lie. The argument is that a comparison of the human genome and the genomes of other apes produces the expected nested hierarchy. Similarity alone does not evidence evolution. It is the PATTERN of similarity and differences which evidences evolution.
 
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EternalDragon

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It is a creationist site built on the premise of spreading lies about science. For example, this argument from the link you gave us:
So we're left with the following argument:
    1. The (protein-coding) DNA of chimps and humans is similar. Therefore, the two species share a common ancestor.
    2. The (non-protein-coding DNA) of chimps and humans is NOT similar. Therefore, the two species share a common ancestor and the dissimilarity explains their differences.
That is a lie. The argument is that a comparison of the human genome and the genomes of other apes produces the expected nested hierarchy. Similarity alone does not evidence evolution. It is the PATTERN of similarity and differences which evidences evolution.

But the truth is there are so many differences that there can't possibly be what you call a nested hierarchy. Nested hierarchy focuses on similarities which would be found in an intelligently designed planet of creatures. It does not focus on the glaring dissimilarities.

Not every piece of research that overturns another piece of research is a lie. You saying that just demonstrates how much of a religion evolution is and how much opposition there is to new research.

You people say the scientists goes where the evidence leads and that there is no opposition to new research that could overturn evolution. That there are no attacks on these other scientists and that they are free to post peer reviewed articles. You, yourselves have demonstrated in the last few posts quite the opposite. (Calling other research "lies", other scientists a "pack of propaganda scumbags", etc.) It just proves everything I have been saying all along.
 
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Loudmouth

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But the truth is there are so many differences that there can't possibly be what you call a nested hierarchy.

Yes, there can, and there is:

nature09687-f1.2.jpg


Those are the real results of comparing similarities and differences. You will notice that humans group with chimps.

Nested hierarchy focuses on similarities . . .

No, it doesn't. A nested hierarchy focuses on both similarities and differences. It addresses both synapomorphies and apomorphies, to use the cladistic terms.

which would be found in an intelligently designed planet of creatures.

Design does not produce a nested hierarchy. Evolution does.

It does not focus on the glaring dissimilarities.

Yes, it does.

Not every piece of research that overturns another piece of research is a lie.

There is no original research at "Evolution News and Views". It is a creationist propoganda site that spreads lies which unwitting creationists like you repeat elsewhere. They do not present any new research. They pull stuff out of context from real research, and lie about it. That is not new research.

You people say the scientists goes where the evidence leads and that there is no opposition to new research that could overturn evolution. That there are no attacks on these other scientists and that they are free to post peer reviewed articles. You, yourselves have demonstrated in the last few posts quite the opposite. (Calling other research "lies", other scientists a "pack of propaganda scumbags", etc.) It just proves everything I have been saying all along.

"Evolution News and Views" lies about the evidence. That's the problem.
 
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Subduction Zone

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There is no legitimate reason for an all knowing being to use a nested hierarchy.

Yes people would probably do it, but we aren't perfect and all knowing ahead of time. We don't know what will work so we would tend to stick with a winning system. God, if he is omniscient, has no need to do so.

Creationists like to claim that ID would use a nested hierarchy, but they never give a valid reason for it to be done so. Unless it is being done by an incompetent being.

Evolution is incompetent. There is a lot of waste in the evolutionary process.

Do you believe in an incompetent god ED?
 
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Loudmouth

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What I find funniest is creationists pointing to the evolution of DNA sequences as evidence against evolution. Did they forget that evolution is change over time? We have, in this very thread, a creationist who points to change as evidence against evolution. Think about that one.
 
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Skaloop

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But the truth is there are so many differences that there can't possibly be what you call a nested hierarchy. Nested hierarchy focuses on similarities which would be found in an intelligently designed planet of creatures.

An intelligent designer would be free to mix and match traits. But we don't find that. There is no animal, extinct or extant, that has three middle ear bones as well as feathers. There is no animal that has fur as well as a beak. There is no animal that has mammary glands as well as gills. There is no animal that is cold-blooded that has hooves. There's no reason an intelligent designer couldn't or wouldn't have that sort of crossover. There is a very significant and strong reason why evolution can not.

As mentioned, it's not just the similarities and the differences, it's the pattern of those similarities and differences.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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But the truth is there are so many differences that there can't possibly be what you call a nested hierarchy. Nested hierarchy focuses on similarities which would be found in an intelligently designed planet of creatures. It does not focus on the glaring dissimilarities.

Not every piece of research that overturns another piece of research is a lie. You saying that just demonstrates how much of a religion evolution is and how much opposition there is to new research.

You people say the scientists goes where the evidence leads and that there is no opposition to new research that could overturn evolution. That there are no attacks on these other scientists and that they are free to post peer reviewed articles. You, yourselves have demonstrated in the last few posts quite the opposite. (Calling other research "lies", other scientists a "pack of propaganda scumbags", etc.) It just proves everything I have been saying all along.

Because the simple fact of the matter is you are not asking them to change an existing theory or consider a new scientific theory, but to change their religion of evolution. You are challenging their belief system, and they will resist to the very end despite the scientific facts that prove evolution is nothing but flights of fancy.

One would expect similarities between kinds, given that 1) the same Creator made them all, and 2) they were all created from the dust of the Earth. If there were no similarities at all, then one could discount creation. One also expects dissimilarities even amongst kinds, given that we know kinds adapt to their surroundings, yet always remain the same kind.

You can be sure they have confused fossils with different species when in reality most are more likely the same kind, just different appearances. Just as we observe today. They talk as if they have genetically sampled these million year old fossils. They want things to occur in the past that we have never observed once, convienently beyond our ability to test, yet claim it is a science. They pick and choose what data to accept, and what to ignore. If the data contradicts their belief system it is the data that is in error, not their beliefs.

It is a sad, sad, state that mainstream has let science fall into where only data that conforms to ones belief system is deemed valid. Science is observation and testing, and then fitting a theory to what is observed, not discarding data so that what is left fits the theory.

How many years have they experimented with bacteria and virus's, yet they have never once evolved into more complex life, just stayed what they originally were. From the Petri dish to the whale, kind after kind; always has been always will be.

When they start the ad homenim remarks, you know they are on the run, flopping like a fish out of the water with not one shred of evidence to back them up. When they attack the author, while ignoring the argument, it is from lack of any evidence to present in return.

Don't let them fool you with their false religious beliefs. Science does not support them, but does support Creation.
 
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