Top Ten Problems with Darwinian Evolution

[EternalDragon]

Eye witness testimony can be good, or it can be really unreliable if an agenda is in place. Also, the NT does not have eye witness accounts, none.

Well, since the NT writers claimed guidance from God (Jesus) and John actually saw and baptized Jesus I would have to say that Jesus is a fairly reliable witness to himself.

 

[kellhus]

I do not believe everything came from nothing or that biological system can increase on their own. It is the direct opposite of what we find.

That simply isn't true. There is plenty of "increase" in biology through evolution. Antibiotic resistance, resistant forms of tuberculosis, nylonase bacteria, Lenski's E. coli metabolizing citrate...

 

[EternalDragon]

So did he have one raven and one dove? Or two ravens and two doves?

As I said, either a male and female dove or seven male and female doves.

You can read all this in Genesis. Why ask me other than to try to bait me?

 

[Loudmouth]

Well, since the NT writers claimed guidance from God (Jesus) . . .

That's all we have, a claim. We do not have accounts from eye witnesses, and even then the justice system is full of examples of eye witnesses that have perjured themselves. For example, the guy trying to make his way back into the NFL after spending 10 years in jail. As it turned out, the women who accused him of rape lied about it. There are also men who have been exonerated due to forensic evidence after they had been convicted on the weight of eyewitness testimony.

and John actually saw and baptized Jesus I would have to say that Jesus is a fairly reliable witness to himself.

So he claims.

 

[kellhus]

Well, since the NT writers claimed guidance from God (Jesus) and John actually saw and baptized Jesus I would have to say that Jesus is a fairly reliable witness to himself.

Mohammad also claimed guidance from God. Zoroaster claimed guidance from God. The Greeks and Romans claimed guidance from their gods.

 

[EternalDragon]

That simply isn't true. There is plenty of "increase" in biology through evolution. Antibiotic resistance, resistant forms of tuberculosis, nylonase bacteria, Lenski's E. coli metabolizing citrate...

If you want to try to convince yourself that those are improvements or increases in complex biological systems, knock yourself out.

On the other hand, maybe you just don't realize what you are saying.

 

[EternalDragon]

Mohammad also claimed guidance from God. Zoroaster claimed guidance from God. The Greeks and Romans claimed guidance from their gods.

I've read Mohammad's writings. He does not claim that. Have you read those works you cited?

 

[kellhus]

If you want to try to convince yourself that those are improvements or increases in complex biological systems, knock yourself out.

Yeah, they are. PCR does a great job with that

On the other hand, maybe you just don't realize what you are saying.

I don't think you're in any position to accuse others of scientific illiteracy.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, since the NT writers claimed guidance from God (Jesus) and John actually saw and baptized Jesus I would have to say that Jesus is a fairly reliable witness to himself.

Wrong. None of the authors of the new testament were eye witnesses. As painful as that may be for you, it is a fact.

 

[kellhus]

I've read Mohammad's writings. He does not claim that. Have you read those works you cited?

2:2 This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
2:3 Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.
2:4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
2:5 These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.
2:6 Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.

 

[Skaloop]

As I said, either a male and female dove or seven male and female doves.

Then why the ravens? If ravens and doves are both part of the birds-that-can-fly kind, then why would he have both ravens and birds?

You can read all this in Genesis. Why ask me other than to try to bait me?

To try to get an answer. And according to Gen 7:3, Noah took birds in seven pairs. So, if he took seven pairs of birds (that-can-fly kind of birds) was it a pair of doves, a pair of ravens, and then five other pairs of other birds in the birds-that-can-fly kind? Or was it a random hodge-podge of birds-that-can-fly?

 

[EternalDragon]

Then why the ravens? If ravens and doves are both part of the birds-that-can-fly kind, then why would he have both ravens and birds?



To try to get an answer. And according to Gen 7:3, Noah took birds in seven pairs. So, if he took seven pairs of birds (that-can-fly kind of birds) was it a pair of doves, a pair of ravens, and then five other pairs of other birds in the birds-that-can-fly kind? Or was it a random hodge-podge of birds-that-can-fly?

The answer is because God created Ravens and Doves as well as other birds on day five.

If you want to know an exact breakdown of what he took on the ark, you'll have to wait for that answer when you meet God.

 

[EternalDragon]

2:2 This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).
2:3 Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them.
2:4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
2:5 These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.
2:6 Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.

I don't see anywhere that it says those words are from God or that they are God breathed or "thus sayeth the Lord" or "God said".

You got anything else?

 

[kellhus]

I don't see anywhere that it says those words are from God or that they are God breathed or "thus sayeth the Lord" or "God said".

You got anything else?

You failed to understand the passage. I mean, what can I say? That's written at about the high school level. And it's pretty clearly a transcription of what God said to Mohammad. It's made pretty blatant.

 

[Skaloop]

The answer is because God created Ravens and Doves as well as other birds on day five.

OK, here's another question based on that. Did God create all of the birds (that can fly) we have today on day five? Eagles, flamingos, hummingbirds, cormorants, owls, cranes, seagulls, crows, doves, ravens, etc? And then he just had 14 of them on the ark, and then after that they all adapted/"evolved" back to that same level of diversity?

 

[Loudmouth]

The answer is because God created Ravens and Doves as well as other birds on day five.

Then why don't we find doves and ravens in much deeper sediment, say with the T. rex fossils? Why don't we find them with trilobites? Why can't we find a single modern bird fossil under rock that dates to 200 million years old?

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, here's another question based on that. Did God create all of the birds (that can fly) we have today on day five? Eagles, flamingos, hummingbirds, cormorants, owls, cranes, seagulls, crows, doves, ravens, etc?

No.

And then he just had 14 of them on the ark, and then after that they all adapted/"evolved" back to that same level of diversity?

We know there was at least one dove and one raven on the Ark.

Unless a dove and a raven are kinds, I would surmise they slipped aboard prior to the Flood.

Ever go to Wal-Mart and see birds flying around in the rafters?

 

[EternalDragon]

You failed to understand the passage. I mean, what can I say? That's written at about the high school level. And it's pretty clearly a transcription of what God said to Mohammad. It's made pretty blatant.

It has no indication that God said it to him. He is just stating things.

Highlight the words that say it is direct from God.

 

[Skaloop]

No.

Okey-doke.

We know there was at least one dove and one raven on the Ark.

Unless a dove and a raven are kinds, I would surmise they slipped aboard prior to the Flood.

Well, according to EternalDragon, they are of the same kind (the birds-that-can-fly kind). That's why I'm asking.

Ever go to Wal-Mart and see birds flying around in the rafters?

I avoid Wal-Mart at all costs. But I have seen birds flying around inside other buildings (train stations, hydroelectric generating stations...).

Anyway, if they slipped on board prior to the flood, how does that fit with God wiping out* all life with the flood except what Noah took on the ark?

*If there is a more accurate verb you would like to use instead of 'wiping out', go ahead.

 

[Loudmouth]

It has no indication that God said it to him. He is just stating things.

Highlight the words that say it is direct from God.

"Muslims believe the Quran to be verbally revealed through angel Gabriel (Jibril) from God to Muhammad gradually over a period of approximately 23 years beginning on 22 December 609 CE,[6] when Muhammad was 40, and concluding in 632 CE, the year of his death.[1][7][8] Shortly after Muhammad's death the Quran was collected by his companions using written Quranic materials and everything that had been memorized of the Quran."
Quran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia