Tools for interpretation

[justified]

My apologies if this is less cogent than it could be. It's been a long day of study and this post is basically a little jot at the end.

Before I begin, let me recall what you are trying to prove:
That God has insured the proper interpretation of scripture and therefore the Bible is its own best commentary.

My first objection, before evaluating the evidence produced, is that you don't say that God has insured the proper interpretation of scripture within scripture. Why couldn't the proper interpretation be preserved -- if in fact it was preserved -- in church tradition or by direct revelation every generation? Just asking.

Deuteronomy 4: 2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

This is certainly an important command -- yet I do not understand how it applies. It does not prove or help to prove that God has preserved a correct interpretation in anyway, nor that scripture is its own best commentary. It simply commands the Hebrews to take care of the Law by not changing it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. 6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

This is very much in the same line of thought -- yet what does it have to do with your thesis? I am noticing a pattern. I will ignore the following verses which have nothing to do with your thesis.

Revelation 22:18

See above comments.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Good advice. But see above.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

See above and comments on your postulate below.

The standard of testing all things: Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

More good advice. Test things according to scripture. But this does not insure proper interpretation of that scripture! Scripture can only be a measure of interpretation if correctly interpreted -- and what is its measure? It's extremely good advice to make sure that what people tell you lines up with scripture. But that doesn't have anything to do with the Bible's ability to interpret itself!

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Once again, this doesn't seem to matter in terms of your thesis. Although I may also note that it's also equally plausible grammatically to translate the sentence "all God-breathed scripture is profitable..."

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

You do realise I haven't argued with the inspiration of scripture, right? I did ACCEPT that. What I don't accept is that scripture is its own best commentary.

John 16:13 “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

The Spirit/The Helper, not the Bible here...just making sure...

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name For Your lovingkindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

See comments above.

John 17:17 “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

All things are to be tested by the scriptures (including the interpretation of them): 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

First of all, the author tells the recipient to interpret it correctly. Secondly, he doesn't say "all things" he says just "interpret scripture correctly".

I'm sorry if you feel as though I haven't given your argument due weight, but I honestly don't see much with which to argue. You adduced a great deal of evidence concerning the inspiration of scripture and very little which had to do with your thesis. Maybe it will be necessary for you to connect the dots for me.

 

[johnd]

The verses I quoted establishes that the Bible is the standard for determining truth from untruth, that it is a closed system of communication in that it is not to be added to (by anyone other than God) nor taken away from. Therefore it is self interpreting as well.

For example, the symbols of Revelation are explained elsewhere in scripture. Take 666 (Revelation 13:16-18) specifically. By applying the "self contained" interpretation, you learn that the number "666" appears in only 3 other passages in the Bible.

This refutes 99 % of speculation and superstition about the symbol. Gone are the applications of gematria (though gematria is somewhat biblically based but often in dispute regarding the interpretation of each numeric symbol). NERO CAESAR, RONALD WILSON REAGAN, various Popes and many others have been accused of being the beast by these extrabiblical interpretations of 666.

Revelation 13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.

1. It is the number of a man
A. a 'risen lord' which is what Adonikam means (Ezra 2:13 [compare to Revelation 13:3 / Revelation 11:7, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 20:7])
B. a builder of the Jewish Temple** (1 Kings 10:14, 2 Chronicles 9:13) whose name means 'peace' (Jeremiah 16:14, Jeremiah 8:11, Revelation 6:2

2. A number forced upon everyone (Revelation 13:3-4, Revelation 13:16-17)

3. No one can buy or sell without the number (Revelation 13:16-17)

4. Since only one people on earth (Revelation 13:3-6) refuse the number (Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 15:2) it can be used as a tracking device to hunt down that people (Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7-10)

** Another 666 is determined by Bible information regarding the recorded date in scripture that the first temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC and several prophetic passages pointing out the destruction of the second temple (by Titus 70 AD) which occurred on the Hebrew calendar 666 years apart (to the very day).

By sticking strictly to what the Bible says and not bringing in extrabiblical interpretations or opinions we see the focus will be on the construction of the Jewish Temple and the reinstitution of the Levitical sacrificial system which is what the true meaning of:

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

is.

The covenant is not a treaty of peace as so many teach parroting a misinterpretation imposed upon the text. It is a satanic (false messiah) affirmation of the Old (Mosaic) Covenant long after that covenant was fulfilled by the true Messiah Jesus.

All interpreted by letting the Word of God speak for himself.

 

[justified]

The verses I quoted establishes that the Bible is the standard for determining truth from untruth,

You have established that, according to the scriptures, the scriptures are truth, and that they are authoritative on spiritual matters.

that it is a closed system of communication in that it is not to be added to (by anyone other than God) nor taken away from.

Sort of. Let me quote an interesting letter for you:

"310 After the books had been read, the priests and the elders of the translators and the Jewish community and the leaders of the people stood up and said, that since so excellent and sacred and accurate a translation had been made, it was only right that it should remain as it was and no 311 alteration should be made in it. And when the whole company expressed their approval, they bade them pronounce a curse in accordance with their custom upon any one who should make any alteration either by adding anything or changing in any way whatever any of the words which had been written or making any omission. This was a very wise precaution to ensure that the book might be preserved for all the future time unchanged." (Letter of Aristeas, 2nd century BC, tr. R.H. Charles).

It was actually common practice in ancient times to append a curse to a work of literature of any kind in order to make sure the scribes were not too liberal with how they copied things. The 100,000 different readings in the NT tradition is evidence enough of the need of such control. My point is that this is not about the use of its interpretation, it is about the integrity of a particular work. Thus, the curse at the end of Revelation never referred to the rest of scripture or its interpretation -- its concern is only about its own book, even as it reads as such!

Additionally, the Biblical writers themselves saw fit to use material from other places. I've already mentioned Psalm 104, but Paul, in a speech at Athens, uses a poet:

God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.
‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ (Acts 17:27,28 NIV).

The book of Jude quotes several works that are not part of our canon (Enoch, a Greek poet, and the Assumption of Moses). One must be familiar with the work being cited by the author -- why else would he cite it? -- in order for it to have meaning!

Therefore it is self interpreting as well.

Once again you use therefore, but it doesn't follow at all! Because we are not to add to to what is written does not mean that we are not allowed to understand it with the brains and experience God has given us! The process of understanding what is written is drawing out, but there's only one way to draw out -- one must discover the original intent of the author. This is the task of exegesis, is it not? And one cannot understand the original intent of the author unless one understands what the author is saying -- words which were written down 2000 years ago and more. These scriptures are timeless in authority, but not in grammar. Heck, there are plenty of words we don't even know the MEANING of in the Bible. How has God preserved the proper interpretation there?

Indeed. The Bible did not come out of heaven on a parachute.

BTW, I'd be happy to talk to you about 666 in another context, but it's not a useful discussion when we're working on hermeneutics. BTW, Have you every read Gordon Fee's How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth? I recommend it to you if you are interested in this kind of thing.

 

[johnd]

Setting aside your insistance on turning this into an English grammar lesson, the bottom line to this discussion is the distinction between God's wisdom and human (so-called) wisdom.

Jesus the Son of God incarnate said:

John 17:17 ... thy word is truth.

Jesus contrasted God's wisdom with human wisdom in:

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And in:

Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Also speaking to the fallen human condition affecting our ability to discern truth:

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Coupled with Matthew 16:23 human "wisdom" is the result of satanic opposition to God.

Now the point in interpreting the Bible properly is, in whose hands do we properly place the trust to insure accurate translation of the Bible? God's? Or Satan's?

Many down through human history have claimed to have divine inspiration. If we choose any other course than the Bible to test their "inspiration" there is literally no standard on which to base such a test. So, Pontius Pilate's cynicism would prevail because truth would only be subjective and not objective.

THEREFORE, as I have shown here and in the scriptures I quoted previously (specifically 1 Thessalonians 5:21, 1 John 4:1, Acts 17:11, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, and 2 Timothy 2:15) the Bible is the standard on which truth is based (again, John 17:17b), and thus it's own best commentary.