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In Fact.. When one is talking to GOD ( not men) if men could understand it. It would not be real tongues.
For he tHat speaks in tongues does not speak to Men ...but to God and NO MAN UNDERSTANDS..
You cannot say its not real tongues because its not intelligible language.
Because the scripture plainly states the kind/type of tongues that speaks Not to man but to God. Is a language "No man understands" .
Thank you for honestyI'll accept your premise. I see no sense in criticizing a person's communication or attempted communication with God. It's none of my business. I can only say that for me it has never happened.
Lol. Sorry i had to laugh.You are deliberately honing in on the antiquated KJV language of "no man understandeth" to make it appear that no human can understand the tongues spoken. The modern English equivalent is "no one understands" as every modern translation renders the verse. And it is the context that determines who the "no one" refers to. In this passage the context is local church meetings. The problem in Corinth that Paul is addressing is that 'no one' in the congregation understands the language spoken, not that 'no one' on the face of the earth can possibly understand it. It doesn't mean the language was non-human. The verse can just as easily mean the language was a foreign language which no one in the congregation understands. Therefore 1 Cor 14:2 is no proof text for tongues being a non-human language.
I am not a cessationist and have spoken in tongues. Paul said there are a diversity of gifts and different kinds of tongues meaning, languages not babble as you put it.Wasnt sure where to post this.
In Almost all (if not all) threads on this topic it will invariably come down to the claim (usually spoken irreverantly) that Tongues today are just babble and not tongues at all.
The same argument will be used repeatedly to shore up this unwise claim.
The cessationist will say
"In acts when they spoke in tongues it was an intelligible language that others can understand.
And if its not- its not real tongues.
[ In this post i first want to state -Tongues are Not a validation of rightouesness .i.e. Not everyone who speaks in tongues automatically goes to heaven . ]
Now.....
To make this claim many words in Pauls letters are fully ignored .
E.g - he states there are a diversity of tongues . there are more then only one "type " of tongues. He is not speaking about different languages but different types of language.
In the nateral a language is the means of communicating between two or more parties.
(Sign language's is a language which doesnt use the tongue.)
To cut to the point...
This claim that if it is not an intelligible language its not tongues of the holy spirit is Fully refuted BY SCRIPTURE well Before cessationists made the claim.
Its simply this.. In his explanations and instructions around the topic of tongues and prophecy Paul makes an astounding statement.
....For he that speaketh in an
[unknown] tongue speaketh
not unto men, but unto God:
for no man understandeth
[him]; howbeit in the spirit he
speaketh mysteries..... 1 Corinth 14 v2..
Now i have left the parenthesis In on purpose. They are not in the greek but added -for transliteration .
But what IS in the greek i will now HIGHLIGHT in bold red.
.....For he that speaketh in an
[unknown] tongue speaketh
not unto men, but unto God:
for no man understandeth
[him]; howbeit in the spirit he
speaketh mysteries....
For me .this ENDS any cessationist argument saying if its not a humanly intelligible language its not real tongues.
In Fact.. When one is talking to GOD ( not men) if men could understand it. It would not be real tongues.
For he tHat speaks in tongues does not speak to Men ...but to God and NO MAN UNDERSTANDS..
No that just verifies the scripture which says
NO man understands.... If you can find a man who inteligibly understands it .then it is not the tongues which speaks not to man but to God.
These things are not of the flesh.
The problem is, all claims for having the gifts today are false. Beyond the two outpourings, the gifts came only through an apostle's hands. And the last Apostle John died around 100 AD.The point of a gift is to edify the church. If a tongues message is not translatable, scripture instructs the tongues speaker to quiet down, and continue talking to God. The scripture also instructs for an individual to pray so they can interpret, since they are speaking profound mysteries. If someone is successful in applying this teaching, they will not become a prophet, but the edification value will be the same as someone who is legitimately a prophet.
In the case of an "unknown" tongue, it is up to the speaker to pray and translate the tongue. In my case, I prayed using scripture to decode the message. Regardless of how anyone sees the gift, don't most leaders in the faith always encourage more prayer and diligent study of scripture?
You need to support your claim from scripture and stop doing what you accuse me of doing.This is just opinion using scriptures on completly other topics to shore up a religious opinion.
New Testament Saduceeism points to the fact that Jesus is all that more closer to coming back.The problem is, all claims for having the gifts today are false. Beyond the two outpourings, the gifts came only through an apostle's hands. And the last Apostle John died around 100 AD.
Are you implying those who do not chase after voices in their heads but go only by scripture are like unto the Sadducees?New Testament Saduceeism points to the fact that Jesus is all that more closer to coming back.
I identify the opinion that certain gifts no longer exist, similar to the Sadducee belief that there was no resurrection or angels. The mentality is similar, it's not a bad thing. Things need to be the same as it was when Jesus left when He returns.Are you implying those who do not chase after voices in their heads but go only by scripture are like unto the Sadducees?
I don't see how things could be the same.I identify the opinion that certain gifts no longer exist, similar to the Sadducee belief that there was no resurrection or angels. The mentality is similar, it's not a bad thing. Things need to be the same as it was when Jesus left when He returns.
I would encourage you to look at church history and compare it to the nation of Israel's history in the scripture.I don't see how things could be the same.
I'm familiar with both. What are you seeing that I am not?I would encourage you to look at church history and compare it to the nation of Israel's history in the scripture.
They seem to mirror each other.I'm familiar with both. What are you seeing that I am not?
Only that the church is Israel and the state of Israel is not biblical Israel.They seem to mirror each other.
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