Tongues - Purpose, Use, & Distribution - Scriptural Truths

[womanofgodwcci]

Oscarr I appreciate your comments, but you are completely overlooking the fact that Paul says in Corinthians that the gifts are given at the discretion of the Will of the Holy Spirit. NOT OURS. Our gifts are used in conjunction with our place in the Body per Pauls discourse in 1 Corinthians.

I don't see where Oscarr was negating that, but giving another prospective FROM THE WORD, since he used viable scripture as to how gifts are attained. They don't just come, you do have to ask. Just like salvation is a gift, you still had to ask for it. Yes, it is the Holy Spirit that gives the gifts as He wills, but you still have to ask for it. Gifts are available to all and yes, you do have to ask for them. You may not get them right away, but you've sown the seed for the request.

 

[RevKidd]

I agree to a point, but there is a danger of moving into fatalism where 'Allah' has full control without any input from us other than obedience.

James says that faith without works is dead. What he means here is that if we say we have faith, we have to do something about it, otherwise it does not work.

If I believe I have the gift of prophecy, it does not work until I decide to practice it in faith. If I wait for God to somehow move my mouth, I might be waiting forever.

What is not of faith is sin. If I do not step out in faith when the Holy Spirit gives me a word of prophecy then I am sinning (according to the scripture I just quoted).

God prompts us in the Spirit, but we have to physically do something to work out our faith.

There is the story about a man who was drowning, so he asked God to save him. Then a man in a rowing boat came up and offered assistance. The drowning man said no, I'm waiting for God to save me. Then a helicopter appeared overhead. He waved it away saying God is going to rescue me. Of course, he drowned, and when he met God in Heaven he asked, "Why didn't you come and rescue me?" "What do you mean?" God answered. "I sent a rowing boat and a helicopter to rescue you but you chose not to use them."

Oscarr, it is dangerous to say that your agree with scripture "to a point". It says what it says. I didn't put it there....

I agree with what you are saying. To a point. All gifts are used in faith. We judge those gifts base on scripture and what the Word says. If somone wants to desire to use more than one gift or all of them by all means pursue it. But you have to accept the fact, that God decides what we use and don't. Bottom line.

I know that I have used more than one gift. I don't operate in them all time. That is something that we have to accept. The Holy Spirit knows what we need at the appropriate time. If you step out in faith to minister to someone, I believe that the Holy Spirit is going to give you discernment, and wisdom to help in this situation... My whole gist of this entire thread is to show the fact that Tongues is not the orgasmic pinnacle of spirituality. Look at how many threads are started everyweek by people asking asinine questions because they know someone, or have seen someone do something that is completely off the wall and want to be able to do that when in reality, the person they want to model themselves after are purley working in the flesh and are no better than the pharisees standing on the street corner shouting their prayers.

 

[RevKidd]

I don't see where Oscarr was negating that, but giving another prospective FROM THE WORD, since he used viable scripture as to how gifts are attained. They don't just come, you do have to ask. Just like salvation is a gift, you still had to ask for it. Yes, it is the Holy Spirit that gives the gifts as He wills, but you still have to ask for it. Gifts are available to all and yes, you do have to ask for them. You may not get them right away, but you've sown the seed for the request.

I will say that we can ask for the Holy Spirit to provide the gifts we need to function properly in the body of Christ. The holy Spirit will also provide His resources when encounter situations that we, in the flesh are not prepared for, and we do have the ability to ask for that assitance and I believe that the Holy Spirit will give as we need.

 

[womanofgodwcci]

I will say that we can ask for the Holy Spirit to provide the gifts we need to function properly in the body of Christ. The holy Spirit will also provide His resources when encounter situations that we, in the flesh are not prepared for, and we do have the ability to ask for that assitance and I believe that the Holy Spirit will give as we need.

That deserves repeating. You are good honey, real good!!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I would assume that you are implying that I have never spoken in tongues, right?

No... I was not speaking about you. I was speaking rhetorically.
How can anyone who has never learned to swim teach others.

Hate to dissapoint you, but I have. I have never spoken corporately. However I have spoken in tongues where it was between God and myself.

Why is there this idea that tongues is somehow seperate from all other gifts. Paul make no reference to such an idea. If tongues has this unique process to receive it, than wouldn't it apply to all the gifts.

Most people separate "diversites of tongues" from "new tongues". We all can speak with new tongue. Very few have the manifestation of "diversities of tongues".

In ACTS 2:38 Peter says this...
Peter said you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. Does Peter say that there is a waiting period to recieve the Holy Spirit? Does he give a 10 stop process in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Why do we read Acts 2:38 and then get the idea that the Holy Spirit enters us after some mystic right of passage, which it seems so many people seem to know themselves.
[quote/]
I dunno. I received the holy spirit when I was born again. I was filled when I asked.

My answer is this. It's because of the false teachings on the gifts and especially tongues. Traditional Pentecostalism espouse that Tongues IS the evidence for the Baptism.

I have always thought the word was the initial evidence. He said we would receive if we asked. That is enough evidence for me!

Well according to Peter, the Holy Spirit enters at conversion. This same Holy Spirit is the one that Paul says distributes the gifts as HE wills. For some reason, doctrinally people have built this symbolic wall between Acts and 1 Corinthians that is inhibiting proper hermeneutics.

What happened in Acts 2 is not typical. I have never heard anyone speak in tongues and have that be a language that was known. It has always been the devotional type of 1 Corin 14:2. Nobody understands it but God.

Because of this people have been taught for a good century that tongues IS the evidence. However, if you harmonize what is happening in Acts, along with the teachings of Paul in Corinthians, you soon realize that it is possible for someone to be filled with the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues.

Bro, you will never agree with anyone on this because most people do not equate "diversiteis of tongues" with "prayer tongues". We all do not receive "diversities of tongues", as you point out correctly. But we all do have spirits, and we all can pray forth out of our spirit in tongues. It is spiritual tongues, not the supernatural "diversities of tongues".

Why is that? Remember what I said already. Paul teaches that God has placed us in the body of Christ to perform a certain function. Your function in church may not require you to speak in tongues, rather, maybe you are suppose to prophesy, or even have the gift of healing, or maybe discernment and wisdom. But you have to understand that our function in the church goes hand and hand with the Gift that the HOLY SPIRIT wants us to have not what we want.

Exactly right. And this is why Acts two was not diversities of tongues. The ALL did it. Your very argument destroys the notion that Acts two was "diversities of tongues". Were they all hands, feet, or eyes? If this was the diversities of tongues they were... because they ALL did it. Completely out of sync with 1 Corin 12.

So when someone isn't speaking in tongues, why do people say that "O you have to have it..." or "it's such a great experience".... People have to realize that the gifts are given by the Holy Spirit. You may be building up false hope in someone to receive something that they are not meant to have in the first place.

Again... you are correct IF we are talking about the gift "diversities of tongues". But we are not.

They gifts we are given will go hand in hand with the function that we serve in the Body of Christ. That's why Paul asks will all do this, will all do that? No they won't because if everyone spoke in tongues, or prophecied, or healed, the body of Christ would not be functioning properly. If am wrong, than please show me, with scripture how I am wrong.

You are correct IF we are talking about "gifts of the spirit" and "body ministry".
But we are not talking about these. We (at least I) are talking about praying forth from the spirit of Christ that was born again into you. Not the supernatural "diversities of tongues" that is only in those who the Holy Spirit has given that gift.
If you do not accept this "form" of speaking in tongues... then there will be no agreement. We are talking apples and oranges.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I did not say that I agree with scripture up to a point.
My words were twisted.
I agreed with your comments up to a point.
Unless you are canonising your comments and putting them on the same level as scripture......

 

[RevKidd]

No... I was not speaking about you. I was speaking rhetorically.
How can anyone who has never learned to swim teach others.


Most people separate "diversites of tongues" from "new tongues". We all can speak with new tongue. Very few have the manifestation of "diversities of tongues".

In ACTS 2:38 Peter says this...
Peter said you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. Does Peter say that there is a waiting period to recieve the Holy Spirit? Does he give a 10 stop process in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Why do we read Acts 2:38 and then get the idea that the Holy Spirit enters us after some mystic right of passage, which it seems so many people seem to know themselves.
[quote/]
I dunno. I received the holy spirit when I was born again. I was filled when I asked.

I have always thought the word was the initial evidence. He said we would receive if we asked. That is enough evidence for me!

What happened in Acts 2 is not typical. I have never heard anyone speak in tongues and have that be a language that was known. It has always been the devotional type of 1 Corin 14:2. Nobody understands it but God.

Bro, you will never agree with anyone on this because most people do not equate "diversiteis of tongues" with "prayer tongues". We all do not receive "diversities of tongues", as you point out correctly. But we all do have spirits, and we all can pray forth out of our spirit in tongues. It is spiritual tongues, not the supernatural "diversities of tongues".



Exactly right. And this is why Acts two was not diversities of tongues. The ALL did it. Your very argument destroys the notion that Acts two was "diversities of tongues". Were they all hands, feet, or eyes? If this was the diversities of tongues they were... because they ALL did it. Completely out of sync with 1 Corin 12.

Again... you are correct IF we are talking about the gift "diversities of tongues". But we are not.

You are correct IF we are talking about "gifts of the spirit" and "body ministry".
But we are not talking about these. We (at least I) are talking about praying forth from the spirit of Christ that was born again into you. Not the supernatural "diversities of tongues" that is only in those who the Holy Spirit has given that gift.
If you do not accept this "form" of speaking in tongues... then there will be no agreement. We are talking apples and oranges.

Dids, there is one Gift of Tongues... The only difference in prayer tongues and "Diversity of Tongues" is whether they are interpreted are not.

What happened in Acts was the gift of Tongues. What Paul is talking about in Corinthians in the very same gift, YET, Paul emphasizes the fact of all the gifts.

No one here has been able to show, with sound, contexualized scripture that there is more than one gift of tongues.

You also have to prove that the main purpose for all the gifts is for the benefit of the church, and not personal. (Except when tongues is not interpreted).

 

[RevKidd]

Bump

 

[msufan]

Everything Didaskalos is saying is spot on and more eloquently phrased than I could write it.

When I was in college, I began to learn about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I had been saved -- powerfully -- at a Bible study in high school. But one morning in my dorm I prayed a more bold, demanding prayer than ever before, telling God that I loved him so much that I wouldn't -- even couldn't -- leave the room until I received the baptism of his Holy Spirit.

After praying for some time, a nonsensical phrase popped into my head. I thought it was Spanish or something. I could feel an urging to say the phrase, and shyly, I did. A torrent of words I'd never heard before came flooding out of my mouth. Afraid I would never be able to do this again, I made myself stop speaking, then started again. It still worked.

I felt no emotion, to my surprise. I was now running late for class, so I started to head out the door when -- WHACK -- I was hit with the most powerful joy I've ever felt in my life. It was as if God was helping me to seek the gift, not an emotion -- but then the emotion followed. People stared at me as I rode my bike to class with the largest smile I've probably ever had in my life.

The ability to pray in tongues has never gone away for me after that. I have never spoken publicly in tongues, however, in an arena that would require interpretation. As people have said before, that kind of speaking in tongues is different than receiving a prayer language as you receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We can debate this all day, I suppose, but instead of adding to the debate, I thought I'd just share my experience with what the types of tongues are.

 

[onelamb]

I have used both the tongue we are given at the baptism in the Spirit and the gift of tongues-I believe they are two seperate things-I can pray and praise in tongues anytime I desire-however, the gift of tongues is only as "the Spirit wills". I do not believe any of the gifts reside with us.
All who are baptised in the Spirit can pray and praise in tongues-each and every time we are given evidence that one received the baptism in the Spirit-tongues are there. No exceptions.

 

[hal weeks]

Strangely enough, I have diverse tongues but not having the interpretation as far as I can tell. So I use them when praying for others. The language seems to change depending on the circumstances. For deliverance it is a much more authoritive language than for healing. Anyone else have a similar experience?