Tongues - Purpose, Use, & Distribution - Scriptural Truths

[RevKidd]

(1) Praying in tongues. Tongues from man to God, for private edification, prayer and praise to God, and messages in tongues from God to man. Obviously tongues to God (1 Corinthians 14:2) require no interpretation, since God understands all languages.

(2) Prophecies in tongues (with interpretation) (1 Corinthians 14:5- 9). There are also messages in tongues from God to man. Tongues which form a message to people require interpretation in most cases. This kind of tongues is a spiritual gift for the edification of others. It was of this gift and ministry that Paul was speaking of when he taught that not all speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:28-30). In those verses it is talking about ministries in the church - not about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. According to Mark 16:17 all can speak in tongues in the sense mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14:2 - prayer in tongues to God. But not all those baptised in the Holy Spirit will prophesy or give messages in tongues.

(3) However, in the case where a speaker is speaking by the spirit words in a human language understood by the hearers but not necessarily by the one giving the prophecy in tongues, it can be said that tongues are a sign for the unbelieving (Acts 2:8; 1 Corinthains 14:22). This kind of sign is happening even in this day.

to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I think maybe we are talking past each other here...

In the above scripture Paul says the Spirit gives different kinds of Tongues. Paul is not talking about 3 different Gifts of Tongues. It's used by us in 2 different ways.

1) Tongues spoken to the congregation - With interpretation

2) Tongues spoken in prayer to God

The interpretation of tongues is a totally seperate Gift as stated by Paul.

 

[RevKidd]

Thanks RevKidd,
This is your thread and I am not going to disrupt it. I understand what you saying.. but just to many issues arise if we try and fit these different things into the same mold.
Thanks for the thread and thanks for your continued Love for the Lord and His Word.
Blessings
Dids

This thread is for everyone. This thread is for those who ask the questions of why, how, when, where, why not and so on...

When people respond with there 10 step process for receiving tongues and other gifts I literally cringe because if that were so, I firmly believe that Paul would have offered that information in his discourse in Corinthians.

Our posistion in the church, which God has placed us, goes hand in hand with the Gifts of Spirit. If God places me in His Body as an eye, the Spirit is not going to give me the gift of Smell.

I ask that everyone read it. Debate if they like. I am open for your questions. But if you come asking with nothing to back up what you say other than some nonsense that you read in a book or saw on TV than I will regard what you say as nonsense. Sorry. I have always tried to rightly divide and handle the Word of God. I hope that other people do so as well instead of telling me that I don't have enough revelation or can't handle meat.

I've been eating meat for years my friends. God Bless.

 

[Addict4JC]

What I will do is this... since you're not allowing the Holy Spirit to minister to you as womanofgodwcci has said, which in agreement is basically what I said, I cannot do anymore than just telling you what the truth is.

However, you choose whether you want to listen to it or not.

I'm gracefully stepping back because I've proved my point to the best of my ability, so no one can say that I'm cowering away instead of facing it.

Just let the Holy Spirit take control in your life... things will go accordingly to the Word, if not you know then it's not the Holy Spirit.

Thanks & God bless!

 

[RevKidd]

You cannot understand tongues and prophesying without seeing that there are two kinds.One is spiritual tongues... which all believers can do and which originates from the born again spirit of the believer.
The other is supernatural tongues... which is only given to certain believers and is a the gift of the Holy Spirit "diversities of tongues".

IMO, the Acts two event was not even tongues as described by Paul in 1 Corin.
First of all, what happened in Acts two was certainly not spiritual tongues because spiritual tongues cannot be understood by anyone. They are directed at God and not man. (1 Cor 14:2)
Second, all tongues need to be interpeted. The Acts two event did not need to be interpreted since people present understood them.
Third, unknown tongues are directed at God, not at men. Yet the event in Acts two was clearly directed to men and spoke about "the wonderful works of God".
Forth, it could not have been "diversities of tongues" for the same reasons, plus Paul tells us that not everyone will have this manifestation of the Spirit... yet in Acts two they ALL spoke with "languages". But the languages were not unknown, did not need to be interpreted.
If we must label the Acts two event as something..then it was actually prophecy. It was speaking the mind of God in a known language, hence prophecy. Even Peter quoted Joel and said "this is that" (the speaking) that was spoken by Joel. The only thing in the quote from Joel that even resembled what was happening was "your sons and daughters shall prophesy". Therefore, if we are to take the Acts two event as a fulfillment of Joel two... then what they were doing was actually closer to prohesying... not speaking in unknown tongues. There was nothing unknown about them.
The Acts 19 event further clarifies what was happening in Acts two... there it says they spoke in tongues AND prophesied. Hence the event was more than merely tongues as described in 1 Corin 12-14.

Dids you make a great point. But what I see here is Tongues, and Prophecy being used in harmony. I don't think that we disagree that tongues can be prophetic when interpreted or heard by someone that understands the language. What happened in Acts is clearly a fullfilment of Joel, which Peter reiterates when he says that "sons and daughter will prophesy". But tongues was used. What was being said in the tongues was prophetic in nature.

Still one gift of Tongues. Not two or three.

Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[hal weeks]

I suspect the ongoing debate over speaking in tongues is fueled by the devil who hates it because it is a powerfull weapon against his kingdom.
Also, it is objective which cannot be questioned.

 

[RevKidd]

Just a notice. The reason you disagree with the idea that there IS two different types of tongues is because you have not considered the wholeness of what the truth is.

HOWEVER, I'm not here to accuse or put down, just to stand firm on that issue.

Here are some scriptures relating to the tongues of prayer and praise, which is quickened in our spirits by the Spirit of God. Not saying it's a gift, but it's something that every Christian can be able to do. Look, even Christ said it Himself:

Mark 16:17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Now, Paul did say something about tongues in a different aspect than what you are talking about, which is the Gift of Tongues.

Ephesians 6:18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

In the verse above, there can be a interpretation given by the Spirit, but that usually comes when the tongues are given as a message unto the church. However, notice that sometimes the tongues can be uttered yet no interpretation comes. That can be from 4 causes:

1 - The lack of spiritual understanding within that church.
2 - The stifling of the Holy Spirit.
3 - The believer speaking in their praise/prayer tongue (personal spirit language), which does not need an interpretation because only God can understand it because we are speaking to Him.
4 - Presences within the service that are not of God that can cause oppression and even attack or try to attack believers (ie. no one being able to sing for the Lord, preaching becomes tense, etc.)

Now, lastly, what did Paul say about the structure of tongues involving the spirit (his renewed, OUR renewed, spirits):

1 Corinthians 14:14-1614 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Yes, Paul did say to seek the better gifts to edify the church, but we are able to edify ourselves as well.

Therefore, there is another tongue, which are spiritual tongues that may or may not be real. However, God knows what is being said, but we can pray in the spirit when needed or desired.

Your scipture in Ephesians has no correlation with Pauls teaching in Corinthians. In fact it, within context, Paul is not referring to Tongues and praying in tongues with no interpretation. Look at what is being said here.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, F19 against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--

Paul is talking about the Whole armor of God. And in verses 17 and 18 he says to first take the Sword of the Spirit (Word of God), and pray that in the Spirit. Paul is saying that our prayers should be founded in the Word of God.

However your trying to make one letter or Pauls, written to an entirely different audience, and making it fit with Corinthians.

I don't want you to cower away. What I want people to do is to look at what they believe in light of what the scripture teaches. If you want to believe bologne fine. I would just make sure that you feel confindent enough to understand the responsibility that is placed on those who teach the word of God. I hope you are ready for it. Because so far, your ability to apologize what you believe is has been based on mix-matching, uncontextualized scripture.

God Bless

 

[RevKidd]

I suspect the ongoing debate over speaking in tongues is fueled by the devil who hates it because it is a powerfull weapon against his kingdom.
Also, it is objective which cannot be questioned.

That it is.

And that is why I firmly stand and preach what is found in Corinthians and Acts. Today churches are filled with tongue talking (majority of which is counterfit) people and churches are weak spiritually because they fail to see that God has so much more to give the believers. There are 8 other gifts to be used and in operation. However, today, most teachings are on tongues and that is it. The body of Christ has a bunch of tongues in it and no one acting as the feet, the hands, the eyes, the ears, and who is blame. The leaders of our pentecostal churches. They have fallen for lies written in books, and videos and seen on TV. The gifts of the Spirit are now perverted or left out. It's really a horrible shame. I believe today that our churches are in worse shape than that of the church in Corinth. Paul wrote what he did to correct misconceptions, today, people write books to reinforce their own ideas and models instead of letting scripture mold it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

1. divers kinds of tongues
2. interpretation of tongues
3. speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance

He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself or builds himself up. We must be edified before we can edify the church. God has ordained this speaking in an unknown tongue unto Himself as a wonderful, supernatural means of communication in the Spirit.

This is well said.
There's nothing like having experience in the different kinds of tongues that God gives us to edify ourselves and do His work.
People who don't speak in tongues aren't all that convincing when they try to talk about it, because you can't really know a lot about it until you start speaking it yourself.
Once you have had a few years experience with tongues in different situations, you build on your initial knowledge, and become an experienced mentor for others.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I have wondered that myself.
How can someone who has never driven a car give driving lessons???

This is well said.
There's nothing like having experience in the different kinds of tongues that God gives us to edify ourselves and do His work.
People who don't speak in tongues aren't all that convincing when they try to talk about it, because you can't really know a lot about it until you start speaking it yourself.
Once you have had a few years experience with tongues in different situations, you build on your initial knowledge, and become an experienced mentor for others.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When people respond with there 10 step process for receiving tongues and other gifts I literally cringe because if that were so, I firmly believe that Paul would have offered that information in his discourse in Corinthians.

What, then, would you say to someone who uses a 10 step process and successfully assists seekers through to the baptism in the Spirit and the gift of tongues which are acknowledged by the elders of the church as genuine?

In other words, if you are correct in your assumption, why does God contradict you by supporting the process?

 

[RevKidd]

What, then, would you say to someone who uses a 10 step process and successfully assists seekers through to the baptism in the Spirit and the gift of tongues which are acknowledged by the elders of the church as genuine?

In other words, if you are correct in your assumption, why does God contradict you by supporting the process?

See my response at CGR

 

[RevKidd]

What, then, would you say to someone who uses a 10 step process and successfully assists seekers through to the baptism in the Spirit and the gift of tongues which are acknowledged by the elders of the church as genuine?

In other words, if you are correct in your assumption, why does God contradict you by supporting the process?

Show me Biblically the steps to receive any of the gifts.

 

[Extirpated Wildlife]

Who says you have to speak in tongues to know if its true or not? That's like saying I have to become a Muslim to know whether its true or not.

Should I not teach my son a sport like baseball because I've never played the game and basically hate the game? No. I can learn the fundamentals of it without having played and learn what is proper and improper technique without ever playing the game.

I don't care if I ever do this thing called speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues doesn't make you a mature Christian. I've met very mature Christians who were seriously on fire for God and their whole lives where a devotion of seeking to glorify God in all they did and say and many people are coming to Christ because of them and also they haven't spoke in tongues. And I've met people who said they have spoken in tongues and I wouldn't ask for their spiritual advice if my life depended on it.

 

[womanofgodwcci]

Who says you have to speak in tongues to know if its true or not? That's like saying I have to become a Muslim to know whether its true or not.

Should I not teach my son a sport like baseball because I've never played the game and basically hate the game? No. I can learn the fundamentals of it without having played and learn what is proper and improper technique without ever playing the game.

The problem that typically happens in a discussion like this is that there are many people on both sides that don't care to listen to the opposing view AND they are arguing about this subject to try to change the view of the other person instead of trying to make sure they are growing in understanding.

I don't care if I ever do this thing called speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues doesn't make you a mature Christian. I've met very mature Christians who were seriously on fire for God and their whole lives where a devotion of seeking to glorify God in all they did and say and many people are coming to Christ because of them and also they haven't spoke in tongues. And I've met people who said they have spoken in tongues and I wouldn't ask for their spiritual advice if my life depended on it.

I totally agree with you. Tongues is a gift and whether or not you have it is strictly by the unctioning of the Holy Ghost, the believer NOR maturity has any control over it. I do believe tongues is essential to everyones walk, just because the Holy Ghost knows EVERYTHING, and when you give Him power over your mouth to intercede on your behalf to our Father, He knows what to pray for and He knows when, what, where and how something is going to happen, He can pray it through your voice. So, it is not about maturity at all. It is about the gift and where you are in your walk with God. It takes time, comprehension and revelation from God's word. Tongues is probably the most powerful gift of them all for me.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Show me Biblically the steps to receive any of the gifts.

1. You need to know that it is God's will for you. "If you ask for anything according to the will of God, He will give it to you."

2. You need to specifically ask for it. "If you earthly fathers know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more does the heavenly Father know how to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

3. You need to receive the gift by an act of faith. "He that asks, receives."

4. You need to do something to activate your faith to you have received the gift. "Faith is the expectation of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." "If you have the faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will be able to say to this mountain "be thou removed" and it will be done for you."

"Faithful is He that calls you and also will do it."

When Jesus invited Peter to step out of the boat and come to Him on the water, Peter had to step out in faith believing that he could walk on the water according to Jesus' words. He could have stayed in the boat if he didn't believe what Jesus told him. He started to sink when he stopped believing that he could keep walking on the water. When Jesus took him by the hand, his faith was restored and he walked with Jesus back to the boat.

I believe that these are scriptural steps for obtaining anything from God that is His will for us. To say that we have to wait for God to make the first move is not supported by scripture. God made His move at Pentecost. Now the ball is in our court to ask for the gifts we need to serve him with power and effectiveness.

To place our hands in an all powerful God to the degree that we have no control over our destiny in the Spirit is a form of fatalism practiced by Muslims. It makes God out to be 'Allah' is all domineering. Our God is not like that. We can fellowship with Him, ask Him for things, and work with Him for the development of the church. God is not a dominant force. He is a team player (there are three main people in His team), and we are part of the team as well.

Of course, it is a fine balance sometimes between where we trust God to do things for us, and when we must take a step of faith to obtain what God has for us.

One pastor's view of it was "If the Spirit of God doesn't move me, I move the Spirit of God." His ministry to us was very powerful and I have met few men of God like him in the 40 years I have been a Christian.

 

[RevKidd]

I have wondered that myself.
How can someone who has never driven a car give driving lessons???

I would assume that you are implying that I have never spoken in tongues, right?

Hate to dissapoint you, but I have. I have never spoken corporately. However I have spoken in tongues where it was between God and myself.

Why is there this idea that tongues is somehow seperate from all other gifts. Paul make no reference to such an idea. If tongues has this unique process to receive it, than wouldn't it apply to all the gifts.

In ACTS 2:38 Peter says this...

Peter said to them, "Repent, R104 and each of you be baptized R105 in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter said you WILL receive the Holy Spirit. Does Peter say that there is a waiting period to recieve the Holy Spirit? Does he give a 10 stop process in order to receive the Holy Spirit.

Why do we read Acts 2:38 and then get the idea that the Holy Spirit enters us after some mystic right of passage, which it seems so many people seem to know themselves.

My answer is this. It's because of the false teachings on the gifts and especially tongues. Traditional Pentecostalism espouse that Tongues IS the evidence for the Baptism. Well according to Peter, the Holy Spirit enters at conversion. This same Holy Spirit is the one that Paul says distributes the gifts as HE wills. For some reason, doctrinally people have built this symbolic wall between Acts and 1 Corinthians that is inhibiting proper hermeneutics.
Because of this people have been taught for a good century that tongues IS the evidence. However, if you harmonize what is happening in Acts, along with the teachings of Paul in Corinthians, you soon realize that it is possible for someone to be filled with the Holy Spirit and not speak in tongues. Why is that? Remember what I said already. Paul teaches that God has placed us in the body of Christ to perform a certain function. Your function in church may not require you to speak in tongues, rather, maybe you are suppose to prophesy, or even have the gift of healing, or maybe discernment and wisdom. But you have to understand that our function in the church goes hand and hand with the Gift that the HOLY SPIRIT wants us to have not what we want.

So when someone isn't speaking in tongues, why do people say that "O you have to have it..." or "it's such a great experience".... People have to realize that the gifts are given by the Holy Spirit. You may be building up false hope in someone to receive something that they are not meant to have in the first place.

They gifts we are given will go hand in hand with the function that we serve in the Body of Christ. That's why Paul asks will all do this, will all do that? No they won't because if everyone spoke in tongues, or prophecied, or healed, the body of Christ would not be functioning properly. If am wrong, than please show me, with scripture how I am wrong.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I guess that once a person has spoken in tongues and gone to a new level of love, peace, joy, and faith with God, they want others to share the new found level of fellowship with Him. It is hard to explain, but everyone I know who has received the genuine gift of tongues has found a new place with God they never had before, and because they love their brethren, they want to share it with them. A person who has never had the experience of speaking in tongues does have the appreciation of it because it involves a new revelation of the way we can fellowship with God in the Spirit. That is why non tongues speakers still argue over minor issues concerning the gift. The vast majority of people who receive the gift leave all that behind and go on to greater heights of worship and fellowship with God.

 

[RevKidd]

1. You need to know that it is God's will for you. "If you ask for anything according to the will of God, He will give it to you."

2. You need to specifically ask for it. "If you earthly fathers know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more does the heavenly Father know how to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

3. You need to receive the gift by an act of faith. "He that asks, receives."

4. You need to do something to activate your faith to you have received the gift. "Faith is the expectation of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen." "If you have the faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will be able to say to this mountain "be thou removed" and it will be done for you."

"Faithful is He that calls you and also will do it."

When Jesus invited Peter to step out of the boat and come to Him on the water, Peter had to step out in faith believing that he could walk on the water according to Jesus' words. He could have stayed in the boat if he didn't believe what Jesus told him. He started to sink when he stopped believing that he could keep walking on the water. When Jesus took him by the hand, his faith was restored and he walked with Jesus back to the boat.

I believe that these are scriptural steps for obtaining anything from God that is His will for us. To say that we have to wait for God to make the first move is not supported by scripture. God made His move at Pentecost. Now the ball is in our court to ask for the gifts we need to serve him with power and effectiveness.

To place our hands in an all powerful God to the degree that we have no control over our destiny in the Spirit is a form of fatalism practiced by Muslims. It makes God out to be 'Allah' is all domineering. Our God is not like that. We can fellowship with Him, ask Him for things, and work with Him for the development of the church. God is not a dominant force. He is a team player (there are three main people in His team), and we are part of the team as well.

Of course, it is a fine balance sometimes between where we trust God to do things for us, and when we must take a step of faith to obtain what God has for us.

One pastor's view of it was "If the Spirit of God doesn't move me, I move the Spirit of God." His ministry to us was very powerful and I have met few men of God like him in the 40 years I have been a Christian.

Oscarr I appreciate your comments, but you are completely overlooking the fact that Paul says in Corinthians that the gifts are given at the discretion of the Will of the Holy Spirit. NOT OURS. Our gifts are used in conjunction with our place in the Body per Pauls discourse in 1 Corinthians.

 

[RevKidd]

I guess that once a person has spoken in tongues and gone to a new level of love, peace, joy, and faith with God, they want others to share the new found level of fellowship with Him. It is hard to explain, but everyone I know who has received the genuine gift of tongues has found a new place with God they never had before, and because they love their brethren, they want to share it with them. A person who has never had the experience of speaking in tongues does have the appreciation of it because it involves a new revelation of the way we can fellowship with God in the Spirit. That is why non tongues speakers still argue over minor issues concerning the gift. The vast majority of people who receive the gift leave all that behind and go on to greater heights of worship and fellowship with God.

It's great that other testify to what God is doing for them. But we, me, you are not them. If God has planned for me to be a hand in the body of Christ, I cannot, unless the Holy Spirit directs me otherwise, be used as foot or toe... It's scripture Oscar. Anything else is personal and waivering from the gospel truths, and you know it. That why you keep trying to explain what you believe by personal, emotional goosebumps, and then saying that everyone needs it because if it is good you it has to be good for them. All things have to line up with scripture. When we start saying that my personal experience is weighter than the Word of God, you are then stepping over line, much like Joseph Smith did with Mormonism. Mormonism is good for other people, so as long as the are preaching Jesus isn't that ok?

Rightly dividing the word of God does not mean that we are allowed to place our own personal feelings into the Word to make it fit what we feel is right.

I know what I am saying may cause people to question the fact if the really need tongues. They may ask, am I following the crowd? I hope people do. There is so much more that the Holy Spirit wants to give the church, but we have narrowed it down to a mindset that tongues is it. Tongues isn't for everyone. Paul says that. Plain as day.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oscarr I appreciate your comments, but you are completely overlooking the fact that Paul says in Corinthians that the gifts are given at the discretion of the Will of the Holy Spirit. NOT OURS. Our gifts are used in conjunction with our place in the Body per Pauls discourse in 1 Corinthians.

I agree to a point, but there is a danger of moving into fatalism where 'Allah' has full control without any input from us other than obedience.

James says that faith without works is dead. What he means here is that if we say we have faith, we have to do something about it, otherwise it does not work.

If I believe I have the gift of prophecy, it does not work until I decide to practice it in faith. If I wait for God to somehow move my mouth, I might be waiting forever.

What is not of faith is sin. If I do not step out in faith when the Holy Spirit gives me a word of prophecy then I am sinning (according to the scripture I just quoted).

God prompts us in the Spirit, but we have to physically do something to work out our faith.

There is the story about a man who was drowning, so he asked God to save him. Then a man in a rowing boat came up and offered assistance. The drowning man said no, I'm waiting for God to save me. Then a helicopter appeared overhead. He waved it away saying God is going to rescue me. Of course, he drowned, and when he met God in Heaven he asked, "Why didn't you come and rescue me?" "What do you mean?" God answered. "I sent a rowing boat and a helicopter to rescue you but you chose not to use them."