Tongues part 2

[roborl]

As with all things in the on-going saga that is the relationship between man and God, God is interested in the state of out hearts.

As Disciples of Christ we should be seeking our characters to become more like Christ so we can achieve the fullness of life both in this world and the next.

I, like it seems most others on this thread, do not doubt that God can and does perform supernatural wonders today, and He also chooses to perform them through other people, i.e. US. However, it wont take a very large miracle for most of us to be consumed pride and our characters damaged.

God is interested in us; who were are and who we will become. As our characters become more like Christ we will move further into His eternal life; life in all it's fullness, TODAY.

Life in the kingdom of God means power over the natural and the supernatural.

Jesus said at the last supper, 'you will do even greater things than these...'

So we should not be seeking the miracles, although they will come as natural consequence, we should be seeking to have the Character of Christ.

--------
Bob

 

[@@Paul@@]

...we should be seeking our characters to become more like Christ so we can achieve the fullness of life...
--------
Bob

I've never heard this before. Sounds a little "new agey". How exactly are we to seek our characters?

 

[roborl]

I've never heard this before. Sounds a little "new agey". How exactly are we to seek our characters?

Sorry if what i wrote was unclear.
I certainly didnt want to be new agey

All i meant was that we should be longing for, working for if you like, our characters be like that of Jesus.

Jesus is our pefect example of how to live our lives in the Kingdom of God. This Kingdom transcends the physical world we seen to also include the spirtual world which is unseen.

Hope that makes more sense now.
If not i'll try harder to explain my self.

--------
Bob

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

So we should not be seeking the miracles, although they will come as natural consequence, we should be seeking to have the Character of Christ.
[/color]

So true. Jews demand a sign.

Greeks demand philosphy.

Theology is just philosophy about God confusing the wisdom of God who is Jesus with the wisdom of men about Jesus.

Unfortunately, we the church have travelled down both wayward paths like those Jews and Greeks. Most of the church are like the Greeks seeking phlosophy about God in which to put their faith. The pentecostals and charismatics demand signs like the Jews.

Let us know the true wisdom of God, the person Jesus Christ.

All else is straw.

JMW

 

[Symes]

1 Cor. 14 is very clear about tongues.

Do not speak unless there is someone who can interpret.

That is the end of the stroy if you follow the Bible.

 

[visionary]

Miracles are no test of truth. The devil can do them as well as anyone.

The gift of discernment is so that one can test the spirit. By knowing the spirit behind the miracles, one may know if it is from God.

Visionary

 

[Symes]

The gift of discernment is so that one can test the spirit. By knowing the spirit behind the miracles, one may know if it is from God.

Very true.

Isaiah 8:20

"To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn."

If something is done or said and it cannot be confirmed in God's Word, and in particular goes against what is there, then it is coming from the devil.

It is not then from God.

 

[C.A.B.L]

Very interesting topic. A topic of much controversy throughout the history of the church. I believe that God can use tongues "apart" from workings in the church, hence where no interpreter would be needed. Paul often speaks that the gift of tongues is to "edify the believer" and also the church. Now in that statement I believe that God has 2 gifts of tongues, but are both one in the same if you catch what I'm trying to say.

Paul actually says in "1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?" he actually discourages speaking on tongues in the Church because those who do not know Christ will not understand because they do not have the Holy Spirit in them which discerns tongues.

Speaking in tongues in the way Paul actually talks about is more of prayerful tool than a tool to attract others to the Gospel. Paul even admits this fact in "1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" and this proves that he doesn't speak in tongues openly but PRIVATELY IN PRAYER "Mat 6:18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly" a spiritual gift is most effective when used privately so that God knows you have the His intention in mind and His favor and not man's.

Now, most people like to use this passage as saying the gift of tongues died out with the disciples and apostles of Jesus' time. "1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."
it goes on to say if you read in this passage "1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."
Now what is this perfect that it talks about in this verse? Obviously it can only be Heaven, which is the perfect place that is TO COME!

In Heaven we will all speak the same language so tongues will not be needed!; In Heaven we will have perfect knowledge and know everything so we will not need prophecy; and the same goes for knowledge. So the Bible tells us that these things WILL CONTINUE to happen until Jesus Christ comes to take us to our Heavenly home.

I myself have spoken in tongues in prayer and it was a life-changing experience. Thanks to God's grace. I think the gift of tongues is an edifying tool of God for the believer. Thanks Guys! Love you all in Christ.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

A simple comment on Mark 16

Mar 16:15-18
15 Then he said to them, "As you go into all the world, proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who doesn't believe will be condemned.
17 "These are the signs that will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
18 they will pick up snakes in their hands; even if they drink any deadly poison it will not hurt them; and they will place their hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Comment:
Jesus said belivers would have these things follow you. I would say that they do regardless of what you think. You have spoken in tongues... you just did not know what it was you were doing. You may very well have taken deadly things, and they did not hurt you. And you may very well have layed hands on the sick and had them recover. You could have done each of these and actually not known you did them. Jesus did not say you would practice them... He said they would follow you. I would suggest to you that He did not lie and that they have in fact been following you around. You cannot shoo them away even in you wanted to. It does not matter that you do not accept it, see it, or like it. These things follow you anyway, just like He said they would.

 

[Symes]

1 Cor. 14:27,28

"If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God."

If this advice from Paul was followed all the time there would not be so much confusion about "tongues"

 

[Ariel]

 

[Ariel]

The gifts no longer operate in the church?

I am so sorry that apparently that is true in your church. It is not true in mine. Our most recent miracle concerned a woman whose body was riddled with cancer. She went in to a pre-op evaluation after many people in our church had laid hands on her and prayed for her. She had been completely healed!

We also speak in tongues quite regularly, interpret the tongues, hear prophecies that come directly in English, and see God move in marvelous ways--by word of wisdom, by word of knowledge, by Divine intervention.

But this is not as important as this: WE FEEL GOD'S PRESENCE IN OUR CHRUCH. We physically feel Him. There are times when the Holy Spirit is so present that we are on our faces, crying out to God.

Yes, it is true that Satan can give a person his "gift" of tongues. He can also work miracles--look at the magicians in Pharoah's court in Exodus. Up to the fourth plague or so they copied everything that God told Moses to do.

The difference is that anyone speaking by the Spirit of Christ will not call Jesus accursed. Nor will they deny that He is Lord, or that He has come in the flesh. 1 Corinthians 12:3 and 1 John 4:3 both tell us to TEST THE SPIRITS.

Furthermore, a person prophesying by the Holy Spirit will NEVER speak something that contradicts the word of God. There is only one Holy Spirit. He does not come against Himself!

Lastly, our God is a God of peace. Any exhortation or word from Him will always come with peace, James 3:17-18. Satan is pushy, God is not.

 

[@@Paul@@]

A simple comment on Mark 16
Comment:
Jesus said belivers would have these things follow you. I would say that they do regardless of what you think. You have spoken in tongues... you just did not know what it was you were doing. You may very well have taken deadly things, and they did not hurt you. And you may very well have layed hands on the sick and had them recover. You could have done each of these and actually not known you did them. Jesus did not say you would practice them... He said they would follow you. I would suggest to you that He did not lie and that they have in fact been following you around. You cannot shoo them away even in you wanted to. It does not matter that you do not accept it, see it, or like it. These things follow you anyway, just like He said they would.

You read the entire book of acts and tell me if the believers at that time were doing these signs, not knowing what they were doing.

And why do people even comment on Christ being a liar? That is just ridiculous! Of course He didn’t lie…

Those signs will follow them that believe! But, believe in what? If you truly want the answer, read the first few speeches of Peter in Acts:
Act 3:12-26 KJV
(12) And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
(13) The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
...(19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
(20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
(21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
...(25) Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

If you want to know what "thy seed" means, see:

Rom 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.​

So, do you believe the same thing today? Are we to REPENT and be CONVERTED so that WHEN the times of refreshing come, our sins may be blotted out?........ and after the above is complete: see verse 20.

People all throughout history were asked to believe different things. Jesus is NOT a liar, He was simply talking to another group of people who are to believe something different than us.

 

[Curt]

Susana

The gospel has not changed it is only our interpretation of it that has changed.

The tongues issue is a very emotional thing to deal with.

Paul in speaking about tongues cautions all not to speak if there is no one there to interpret and if there is to have no more than 3 or 4 people speak at a time.

Today that is not the case at all. Most of it is un-interpreted. Most is not necessary at all as the people there in most case can all speak the same language.

God is not the author of confusion, tongues in most case causes confusion.

Paul was addressing Prophecy by tongues. He also taught about our prayer language in tongues. I have been used of God to Prophecy in tongues, and I would wait to see if someone else would interpret, and if the other didn't respond The Holy Spirit would give me the interpretation.

Prov 3:5-8
5 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART; and LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 BE NOT WISE IN THINE OWN EYES: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.
John 17:22-23
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE.
23 I in them, and thou in me, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Ps 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness AND FOR THY TRUTH: FOR THOU HAST MAGNIFIED THY WORD ABOVE ALL THY NAME.
James 1:22-25
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
(KJV)

 

[Symes]

1 Cor. 14:27,28

"If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God."

If this advice from Paul was followed all the time there would not be so much confusion about "tongues"

We will not get into trouble if we follow what is in God's Word.

 

[Curt]

We will not get into trouble if we follow what is in God's Word.

Here are some real good ones to follow.

Josh 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Prov 3:5-8
5 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART; and LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 BE NOT WISE IN THINE OWN EYES: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.
John 17:22-23
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE.
23 I in them, and thou in me, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Ps 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness AND FOR THY TRUTH: FOR THOU HAST MAGNIFIED THY WORD ABOVE ALL THY NAME.
James 1:22-25
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
(KJV)

I have also been used as an interpreter for others who spoke in tongues, and it is always directed by The Holy Spirit. And just like with the old testament prophets, they always rankle someones feathers, but of course that's what Truth does.

 

[Symes]

I have also been used as an interpreter for others who spoke in tongues, and it is always directed by The Holy Spirit. And just like with the old testament prophets, they always rankle someones feathers, but of course that's what Truth does.

Curt

What was the purpose of talking in tongues?

Was there any people at this meeting that could not understand the common language spoken by the speaker in normal conversation?