Tongues are a requirement

[Luke735]

In corinthians 14 we are given instruction on how to conduct a public church meeting.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

"EVERY ONE OF YOU" Not some, not most, ALL.

EVERYONE. Has these, Tongues, interpretation, Prophecy. Yet in the meeting NOT ALL will exibit these manifestations.

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

We have full control over ourselves. The priority is love and the edifying of the Church.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Every Church SHOULD operate like this.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

NOTE: Woman are to learn in silence. But they are permitted to operate the Spiritual Gifts. (see 1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? )

Also: 1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. Note: ALL in ALL!


You may think I am making a big deal of all of this. Well; yes I am. Jesus said in Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

We also read: 1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

PLEASE TAKE PARTICULAR NOTE OF WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS NEXT:

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

How can anyone stand before God, in a Church that Ignores these scriptures and proclaim to know him? The moment my Church stops preaching conformity to God’s plan for his Church. I will leave and start again.

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

FINALLY A QUESTION: DOES YOUR CHURCH OPERATE LIKE THIS?

IF NOT.....WHY NOT?

IT IS A COMMANDMENT NOT A REQUEST!!!

God Bless

Luke 7:35

 

[christianmomof3]

wow. so like, people who are deaf and cannot speak can never be saved? total bummer for them.

 

[Biblicist]

i.e. TO CONVEY THE CORRECT BIBLICAL APPLICATION OF BOTH TONGUES PRIVATE (IN THE CLOSET) AND TONGUES PUBLIC (SIGN TO THE UNBELIEVER IN THE MEETING/CHURCH SETTING)

I’m not sure how you are applying the bold portion of your sentence, but it should be pointed out that Paul was saying that the unbridled use of tongues within the congregational meeting will only have a negative sign value to the unbeliever. Paul was simply reminding us that we are not permitted to speak in tongues without an interpretation accompanying each tongue – not that major portions of the contemporary church really care.

 

[Biblicist]

Whenever someone like me gets up and says maybe we should explore the possibility that Tongues are Essential for salvation people immediately reach for Corinthians 12:28-31 to rebut such a claim.

I agree that many fail to understand that Paul is primarily addressing the congregational setting within chapters 11 through 14, though 1Co 12:2-3 & 7-11 apply across the board in that they are not limited to the congregational setting. In verses 2 & 3 Paul is speaking of how believers are trying to use Jesus’ name to curse others and the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (aka spiritual gifts) are for personal use and ministry.

You are right with regard to 12:28 in that most people fail to understand that Paul is now speaking of the 8 Congregational Offices/functions where tongues is the last of these congregational functions, unlike 12:10 where he is referring to the private (or non-congregational) use of tongues. Sadly, this is one of the greatest failings with Pentecost in that in most part it failed to differentiate between the Manifestations of the Spirit (12:7-11) and the Congregational Functions/Offices (12:28).

 

[Luke735]

wow. so like, people who are deaf and cannot speak can never be saved? total bummer for them.

I would like to share a testemony with you. In 1992 I was street witnessing with a friend of mine in Canberra (the Capital of Australia) when we met a man who was deaf and dumb from birth.

Just so happens that my friend John's Mother was also completely deaf and so john could sign.

We told the man about Jesus and that Jesus could heal him starting with his heart. We went back to the community hall where we were based for the outreach and prayed with him.

As we neeled down and laid hands on him he began to gesture with his hands rotating at the base of his stomach. Slowly his hands moved upward past his chest to neck (still rotating) Once his hands reached his chin he burst out in fluent tongues. Prior to this the only sound he could make sounded like load yawn.

Afterwards we asked him why he was gesturing with his hands. He said he felt something churning like butterflies in his stomach and rising through his body until it finally released out his mouth.

I immediately thought of what Jesus said in Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

You see there are people who get off on elevating tongues or other workings of the Spirit as though they are deserving of some adulation.

I am here for one reason. There is a great lie that has infected the church and consequently robbing people of their salvation.

The lie is this:

People are being told by some MAN that they have recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost when they have not.

The result is twofold.

1) They stop seeking

2) The teach others also

In the comming weeks I will prove conclusively with scripture that you MUST speak in tongues to lay claim to having recieved the Holy Ghost.

Further to this YOU MUST BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST TO BE SAVED.

Brothers and sisters Let the battle be joined..Let God's word be true and every man submit to its truth.

God Bless

 

[Luke735]

I agree that many fail to understand that Paul is primarily addressing the congregational setting within chapters 11 through 14, though 1Co 12:2-3 & 7-11 apply across the board in that they are not limited to the congregational setting. In verses 2 & 3 Paul is speaking of how believers are trying to use Jesus’ name to curse others and the 9 Manifestations of the Spirit (aka spiritual gifts) are for personal use and ministry.

You are right with regard to 12:28 in that most people fail to understand that Paul is now speaking of the 8 Congregational Offices/functions where tongues is the last of these congregational functions, unlike 12:10 where he is referring to the private (or non-congregational) use of tongues. Sadly, this is one of the greatest failings with Pentecost in that in most part it failed to differentiate between the Manifestations of the Spirit (12:7-11) and the Congregational Functions/Offices (12:28).

Now we are starting to get somewhere...As I said in earlier posts. I am putting together a video that outlines WHY God gave us the Specific order as it is written 1 Corinth 14:26...It is very intentional.

My church function identically to the Corinthian church and the same signs and wonders follow. (not that signs and wonders are the be all and all) But Corinthians Chapters 11 through 14 are far more important than most here realise. My mission is to show/demonstrate from scripture why I should make this claim.

 

[Luke735]

I thought it would be good to let you know a little about who I am.

I first heard the "Bible Gospel" 23 years ago. That week I went from being a very active drug dealer and user, to a completely changed person.

This change occurred subsequent to me asking God the following question “If you are there, and Jesus Christ was your son, please fill me with the Holy Spirit". That moment I began to speak fluently in another language.

I spent the next month going around to my friends (other drug users included) telling them what had happened to me. In total 22 of them had the same experience as I did, including my parents. I saw my father healed of debilitating illnesses, I saw the deaf healed and the lame walk.

I didn't originally want to be a Christian but I found the evidence so overwhelming that I decided to dedicate my whole life to serve God. I have since been married, been blessed with three children. And God has blessed my life more than words can express.

God Bless

Luke 7:35

 

[Luke735]

Well this makes 50 posts for me. You know what that means...I can now post videos...

 

[Luke735]

If you believe that you have recieved the gift of the Holy Ghost and have not spoken in tongues as recorded in the Bible then you need to watch this video.

Simply stated we are saying that if you have not spoken in tongues then you are not born again of the Spirit and therefore cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Please do not be offended just examine the information and obey the scripture.


Speaking in Tongues Explained - YouTube

 

[Luke735]

There are hundreds of church groups throughout the world that proclaim that they follow the Bible.

Yet when you visit them they all seem to conduct their church services differently.

This presentation examines the Bible directives on how and why meetings or gatherings are to be conducted in a specific format that God himself has commanded. We also examine why so many today refuse to follow the Bible directive.

The Due Order of Church Services - YouTube

 

[Andrea411]

I believe that EVERYONE who are Born of the Spirit are able to speak in tongues. Any thoughts?

Please take special note:

Sound - Greek phone...Voice or Language
Wind - Greek Pnuema...Holy Ghost


Joh 3:8

(AMP) The wind blows (breathes) where it wills; and though you hear its sound, yet you neither know where it comes from nor where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

(ASV) The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

(BBE) The wind goes where its pleasure takes it, and the sound of it comes to your ears, but you are unable to say where it comes from and where it goes: so it is with everyone whose birth is from the Spirit.

(CEV) Only God's Spirit gives new life. The Spirit is like the wind that blows wherever it wants to. You can hear the wind, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going.

(EMTV) "The wind blows where it wills, and you hear its sound, but you do not know from where it comes and where it goes. So is everyone who has been born of the Spirit."

(ERV) The wind blows wherever it wants to. You hear it, but you don't know where it is coming from or where it is going. It is the same with everyone who is born from the Spirit."

NOTE: EVERYONE WHO ARE BORN OF THE SPIRIT THERE IS AN ACCOMPANYING SOUND!!!

Luke 7:35

I was saved for 2 years before I spoke in tongues.... so your suggesting that I wasn't saved until I opened my mouth and spoke out loud..... utterly ridiculous. LOL.
I think a lot of Christians lose out on the joy and comfort and power of the Holy Spirit bc they either won't or bc of faulty teach do not seek the gifts - Paul said he desired that all spoke in tongues, if all automatically did then he wouldn't have phrased it as still wanting them all to speak in tongues.
I would prefer that the gifts of teaching, healing, encouraging, evangelizing - tongues being the least of the gifts.
....I find your perspective annoying bc it is what causes so much fighting within the church... even in Charismatic churches. Baptists churches go crazy over this.... ugh

 

[Luke735]

Firstly when paul said "1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh, with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I have a few problems with your application of this text:

1) How could this happen if ALL could not speak in tongues?

2) Paul is referring to the Manifestation of "diverse kinds of tongues" in the operation of spiritual gifts during a church service or meeting. Therefore your application is wrong because you are applying it out of the confines of the meeting.

3) Paul is articulating that during a meeting speaking out in tongues in a hap-hazard or random fasion is self serving and not to the benefit of the congregation.

4) Paul is simply building on and to the following comments..."1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."


I suggest you watch the video on the Due Order of Church Services.

PS While you are there you may like to watch this:

The Full Gospel Defined - YouTube

Luke 7:35

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for staff review. As a reminder, the Pentecostal/Assemblies of God Statement of Faith

which is stickied at the top of this particular forum includes this:

A few things to know about Pentecostal Christians:

1. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a special experience following salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. The initial physical evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues,’ as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.​

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON

I did some cleaning. Please note FreeinChrist's mod hat above.
MOD HAT OFF
​

 

[Andrea411]

Firstly when paul said "1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh, with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I have a few problems with your application of this text:

1) How could this happen if ALL could not speak in tongues?

2) Paul is referring to the Manifestation of "diverse kinds of tongues" in the operation of spiritual gifts during a church service or meeting. Therefore your application is wrong because you are applying it out of the confines of the meeting.

3) Paul is articulating that during a meeting speaking out in tongues in a hap-hazard or random fasion is self serving and not to the benefit of the congregation.

4) Paul is simply building on and to the following comments..."1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."


I suggest you watch the video on the Due Order of Church Services.

PS While you are there you may like to watch this:

The Full Gospel Defined - YouTube

Luke 7:35

the video is well worth watching, it might change your life. For those who feel defeated or who are having so much trouble being overcomes in this strange new world... they explain where, what, why and how. It is not us but the Holy spirit within us that allows us to be overcomers.

 

[Luke735]

I agree with you Andrea411...obviously

That said, Earlier I spoke of the concept of "BURDEN OF PROOF"

I have found over the years that most people who believe that tongues are not required do approach the matter from the "FALSE" assumption that I must prove from scripture that they must speak in tongues as evidence that they are born again/recieved the Holy Ghost, Been Converted, Saved etc etc.

It is fair enough to demand a scritural suppot to this belief.

HOWEVER; One MUST begin this journey from the FIRST INSTANCE of the Holy Ghost being Given...Or in Legal Terms...Prima Facia.

IMPORTANT: The Bible is first and foremost a Testament...A Legal Will...The relevance of Prima Facia and Burden of Proof is central to you receiving you inheritance.

One must begin there at 9AM on the Day of Pentecost with the presumption of Tonges as Outward Evidence, then verse by verse go through Acts to see what the scriptures teach. IF YOU START WITH THIS PRESUMPTION (WHICH IS COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE TO DO BECAUSE OF "PRIMA FACIA) THEN TRY TO FIND EVEIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY YOU WILL FAIL. YOU WILL BE FACED WITH THE CHALLANGE OF YOUR LIFE...TO FOLLOW THE LEADER LIKE BLIND SHEEP MAKE A STAND FOR THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM THAT 99% OF PEOPLE MAKE...THEY BELIEVE WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO BELIEVE ACCORDING TO EITHER THEIR PARENTS, PASTOR OR WHATEVER.

You will not find the truth until you first open your heart and mind to hear it from Jesus, through and in the light of His Word.

Secondly ALL Scripture is given by "Inspiration" i.e truth must be inspirited from God.

If anyone hear thinks this to be a minor issue, think again...If you want access to the Tree of Life in that day, You must go through the Flaming Swords that guard it..to do that you must Worship in Spirit (Holy Ghost and Fire) and Truth (Sword of truth...The Word of God) There is no other option folks.
God Bless, and happy searching.

Luke 7:35

 

[bushinoki]

Tongues are NOT evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ is the sole requirement. Tongues is evidence solely of baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Andrea411]

I agree with you Andrea411...obviously

That said, Earlier I spoke of the concept of "BURDEN OF PROOF"

I have found over the years that most people who believe that tongues are not required do approach the matter from the "FALSE" assumption that I must prove from scripture that they must speak in tongues as evidence that they are born again/recieved the Holy Ghost, Been Converted, Saved etc etc.

It is fair enough to demand a scritural suppot to this belief.

HOWEVER; One MUST begin this journey from the FIRST INSTANCE of the Holy Ghost being Given...Or in Legal Terms...Prima Facia.

IMPORTANT: The Bible is first and foremost a Testament...A Legal Will...The relevance of Prima Facia and Burden of Proof is central to you receiving you inheritance.

One must begin there at 9AM on the Day of Pentecost with the presumption of Tonges as Outward Evidence, then verse by verse go through Acts to see what the scriptures teach. IF YOU START WITH THIS PRESUMPTION (WHICH IS COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE TO DO BECAUSE OF "PRIMA FACIA) THEN TRY TO FIND EVEIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY YOU WILL FAIL. YOU WILL BE FACED WITH THE CHALLANGE OF YOUR LIFE...TO FOLLOW THE LEADER LIKE BLIND SHEEP MAKE A STAND FOR THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM THAT 99% OF PEOPLE MAKE...THEY BELIEVE WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO BELIEVE ACCORDING TO EITHER THEIR PARENTS, PASTOR OR WHATEVER.

You will not find the truth until you first open your heart and mind to hear it from Jesus, through and in the light of His Word.

Secondly ALL Scripture is given by "Inspiration" i.e truth must be inspirited from God.

If anyone hear thinks this to be a minor issue, think again...If you want access to the Tree of Life in that day, You must go through the Flaming Swords that guard it..to do that you must Worship in Spirit (Holy Ghost and Fire) and Truth (Sword of truth...The Word of God) There is no other option folks.
God Bless, and happy searching.

Luke 7:35

...as someone who experienced 'tongues' but not just tongues, with the baptism came an inner strength but I was saved (2 years) from the day I asked Jesus to come into my heart and be LORD.... I do not negate the importance of moving in the gifts and am saddened on a daily basis at the 'church' without power... but that said, salvation is through faith in Christ. Even if that faith is as small as a mustard seed.... I have sturdied in-depth as many many thousands before me and once again the church is at a stand still.... we can not let these differences in theological interpretations divide us... therefore I do not push 'tongues' I encourage people to seek the Baptism of fire and to expect to receive a gift- usually tongues as their prayer language but I can not insist it is the sign bc Paul did not. Even Paul wished that all spoke in tongues.... obviously they did not all...
God bless, andrea

 

[Luke735]

Andrea411 Said: “as someone who experienced 'tongues' but not just tongues, with the baptism came an inner strength but I was saved (2 years) from the day I asked Jesus to come into my heart and be LORD”.

You make an important point Andrea. The Lord coming into our heart is salvation. The point of contention however is when SPECIFICALLY this does occur?

The prevailing train of thought is that it is a direct outcome of a decision made by an individual. i.e A result of an act on our behalf.

The Biblical view as I see it is that salvation is an act of God who sent his son to die in our place. In this respect I agree with Bushinoki in placing the emphasis on Faith.

To understand this fully one must understand the concept of the sacrifice of Jesus in the light of the “Father of Faith” Abraham, Who; Like God gave his only begotton Son.

LONG STORY SHORT; THE POINT OF SALVATION IS WHEN THE SPIRIT OF GOD INDWELLS THE BELIEVER. THIS FIRST OCCURRED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.

Prior to this the Spirit was with (adjacent to) the Apostles and the prophets but NOT IN THEM.

Want a Scripture? John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:17 Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; WHOM THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE, BECAUSE IT SEETH HIM NOT, NEITHER KNOWETH HIM: BUT YE KNOW HIM; FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU. John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Please take careful note of what Jesus is saying here concerning the “Spirit of Truth”.

1) THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE HIM
2) IT SEES HIM NOT
3) NEITHER KNOWS HIM
4) BUT YE (THE BELIEVERS) KNOW HIM; FOR HE DWELLS WITH YOU
5) AND SHALL BE (FUTURE TENSE) IN YOU

Andrea411 Said: I do not negate the importance of moving in the gifts and am saddened on a daily basis at the 'church' without power... but that said, salvation is through faith in Christ. Even if that faith is as small as a mustard seed.... I have studied in-depth as many many thousands before me and once again the church is at a stand still.... we can not let these differences in theological interpretations divide us... therefore I do not push 'tongues' I encourage people to seek the Baptism of fire and to expect to receive a gift- usually tongues as their prayer language but I cannot insist it is the sign bc Paul did not. Even Paul wished that all spoke in tongues.... obviously they did not all...

Again I would like to remind everyone that in Paul’s letter to the Church of Corinth, more specifically the verse you quote. He was speaking in the context of THE CHURCH SERVICE:

To help see this clearly allow me implant some contextual aids in brackets. BTW I am not adding to the text, simply highlighting the CONTEXT.

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE], but rather that ye may prophesy. [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE]

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] speaketh not unto men, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE]

1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE]

1Co 14:4 He that [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] but rather that ye prophesied: [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] for greater is he that prophesieth [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] than he that speaketh with tongues, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] except he interpret, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] that the church may receive edifying. [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE]

1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] if I come unto you speaking with tongues, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] what shall I profit you, [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE] except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? [IN THE CHURCH SERVICE]

1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?

GETTING THE POINT GUYS????????
God bless
Luke 7:35

 

[Andrea411]

once again.... the simplicity of the gospel is lost in 'what must I believe" to be saved. Thousands, hundreds of thousands and more are given poor or inadequate teaching OR worse they might not be able to read, write or decide what is right.... I do not believe salvation is based on our ability to grasp theological questions or our IQ .... it is based on our faith in Christ. What must I do? Believe!!
... love God with all your mind, heart and soul... neighbor as self... and when you get that right move on to more complex issues.... still working on the first two. I have seen the church torn apart bc of theological interpretations.... it is unnecessary