Tom Cruise

[SharonL]

Sharon, Thanx for your views.

Did you ever read that ”The god of this age hats blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them,” 2 Cor. 4.4. Are we blaming a blind person for their blindness? Why not blame the one who blinded him?

How about this, “We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Eph. 6.12). We are fighting/hating the wrong person when we fight/hate Tom Cruise. Our warfare is with the devil, not his victims.

~Jim

Thanks JIm - but what I am not understanding is this: what about personal responsibility? Not just about Tom Cruise - I have no fight with him, except I have no respect for him and the way he bashes our counry - but anyone - are we suppose to blame the devil on everything - again - where is personal responsibility - the saying "the devil made me do it" is used so ofter that personal responsibility has lost it's meaning.

 

[BenAdam]

9's

OBOB: One Bread, One Body ---> Catholic Church Forum

 

[JimB]

Thanks JIm - but what I am not understanding is this: what about personal responsibility? Not just about Tom Cruise - I have no fight with him, except I have no respect for him and the way he bashes our counry - but anyone - are we suppose to blame the devil on everything - again - where is personal responsibility - the saying "the devil made me do it" is used so ofter that personal responsibility has lost it's meaning.

Hi, Sharon. I think what concerns me is that Christians often expect non-believers to act in the same way as believers. A person who is not born again of the Holy Spirit cannot act with the same Christian values. According to 1 Cor. 2.14, the natural man does not, indeed cannot, receive the things of the Spirit of God, cannot even understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Remember, the Apostle said, Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God (1 Cor. 6.9-11). Unregenerate people are victims of the devil, IMO. They have been deceived and blinded and act according to their nature. We, on the other hand, act (at least should act) as sanctified people. IMO, it is wrong for us to expect more out of non-believers than they are capable of giving. Rather, it is our duty to love them and with graciousness offer them the truth in love.

That’s my point.

~Jim

 

[Svt4Him]

I hate to throw a kink in this lovefest for Tom Cruise, but is Tom Cruise our enemy or our mission? Are we to love him as God so loved the world that He gave us His son for it, or are we to hate Tom Cruise because he is an, ugh!, sinner. What do we expect sinners to do, live blood washed lives while they are in their sin? How do we to expect sinners to act, anyhow? Why blame a leper for having leprosy?

~Jim

I don't blame a leper for having leprosy, but I don't really think that's the same thing. A leper doesn't have a choice to not be a leper, yet a "sinner" has the choice to not sin. I realize all will sin, but that doesn't mean all are controlled by sin. I have never lied because I had no opportunity to tell the truth, rather I chose to lie for my selfish reasons, before I was ever a Christian.

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."

 

[Svt4Him]

Ok, just got a rebuke. We don't hit blind people for being blind. The gods of this world have blinded their eyes, and we need to reveal the gospel to them. We do it in love, not out of anger or hate.

 

[Andrew]

Since this is offensive enough to be deleted from OBOB, I thought I'd post it here.

We've all heard what Tom did regarding South Park. My post was why are we not willing to do for truth what others are willing to do for a lie?

Not really sure why it was deleted, but perhaps we can take it up here?

Understand perfectly what you mean.

I started a thread on a local forum (in Singapore) asking why the government would ban things like The Satanic Verses and those Danish cartoons in the name of religious harmony but would allow the screening of Da Vinci Code documentaries and the sale of the books. IOW it's ok to do it to Christians but not the Muslims.

Most of the posters felt that I was kicking up a fuss for nothing.

Anyway, kudos to Tom for standing up for his faith when someone tries to use the media to defame or poke fun at it. Kudos to the muslims who are bothered enough to protest. Christians? Well, they are just largely indifferent.

 

[Andrew]

I hate to throw a kink in this lovefest for Tom Cruise, but is Tom Cruise our enemy or our mission? Are we to love him as God so loved the world that He gave us His son for it, or are we to hate Tom Cruise because he is an, ugh!, sinner. What do we expect sinners to do, live blood washed lives while they are in their sin? How do we to expect sinners to act, anyhow? Why blame a leper for having leprosy?

~Jim

John G Lake wrote a letter to a minister who vehemently attacked and tore down Christian Science.

He said that you can't just take away someone's beliefs and hopes and not offer something better.

Christian Science gives people who don't know Christ the Healer hope when it comes to sickness, as it teaches and believes in healing. So you can't just tell a Christian Science person to give up his "silly" beliefs without giving him something better -- divine healing from the throne of God.

The reminds me of a Dicov (or National Geographic) docu. A group of scientists went around villages in India to expose the 'tricks' of the gurus/holy men/witch doctors/, so that the people won't be duped anymore. You may think that they are doing a good deed, but they were simply destroying people's hopes without replacing it with something better.

So who can blame Tom Cruise. He found 'life' and 'hope' in Christian Science, when every one else told him that he would not amount to anything becos of some condition he had.

That don't mean I like him and approve of the things he's done though.

 

[Svt4Him]

Do you know the uproar on the Muslim cartoon, yet the University of Sask published a cartoon about Jesus doing some sick things, and you probably didn't hear much about that. Why not? I should add the same paper wouldn't run the danish cartoon, but had no problem running the Christian one.

 

[JimB]

We can blame the Christian church for letting Tom Cruise slip through the net when, in America, we had so many opportunities to present him with the claims of Christ on his life. I wonder how many Christian hypocrites turned him away from the church, how many self-absorbed Christians did not share Jesus Christ with him, how many empty Christian lives turned him away from the hope of the Gospel before the Scientologists got hold of him?

~Jim

 

[Svt4Him]

We can blame the Christian church for letting Tom Cruise slip through the net when, in America, we had so many opportunities to present him with the claims of Christ on his life. I wonder how many Christian hypocrites turned him away from the church, how many self-absorbed Christians did not share Jesus Christ with him, how many empty Christian lives turned him away from the hope of the Gospel before the Scientologists got hold of him?

~Jim

People reject Christ because the darkness doesn't like the light. I think to blame this on hypocritical Christians if grasping at straws.

 

[JimB]

People reject Christ because the darkness doesn't like the light. I think to blame this on hypocritical Christians if grasping at straws.

Maybe. Then on the other hand we may be amazed when we get to heaven to discover how many doors our hypocrisy has closed to seeking hearts and how many babes we have offended and stones of stumbling we have laid along people’s path to God by our duplicity. You can’t simply dismiss hypocrisy as a barrier to many people’s journey to God.

Case in point: “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in” (Matthew 23.13).

~Jim

 

[Girly3302]

Since this is offensive enough to be deleted from OBOB, I thought I'd post it here.

We've all heard what Tom did regarding South Park. My post was why are we not willing to do for truth what others are willing to do for a lie?

Not really sure why it was deleted, but perhaps we can take it up here?

I'm sorry, what did Tom Cruise do regarding South Park?

 

[JimB]

Yeah! Them dam*ed old sinners. They can just go to h*ll. Is this the attitude we should take toward non-believers?

~Jim

 

[JimfromOhio]

All South Park and similar shows do is mock. This is about "I love humanity. It's people I can't stand." Humanity is great but people are stupid attitude. Proverbs 14:9 "Fools mock at making amends for sin, but goodwill is found among the upright."

 

[Hortysir]

I hate to throw a kink in this lovefest for Tom Cruise, but is Tom Cruise our enemy or our mission? Are we to love him as God so loved the world that He gave us His son for it, or are we to hate Tom Cruise because he is an, ugh!, sinner. What do we expect sinners to do, live blood washed lives while they are in their sin? How do we to expect sinners to act, anyhow? Why blame a leper for having leprosy?

~Jim

The Holy Spirit has blessed you richly, Jim.
GodBless
~Rodney

 

[Svt4Him]

Yeah! Them dam*ed old sinners. They can just go to h*ll. Is this the attitude we should take toward non-believers?

~Jim

Can you explain why you think someone is saying this?

 

[TreeOfLife]

Anybody else finding it difficult NOT to read a thread titled "Tom Cruise"?

OH NO! Now I have a subscription to it!

 

[JimB]

Can you explain why you think someone is saying this?

The point (in case you missed my overstated subtlety ) is that we should not look at unbelievers as our enemy but as our mission. We were left on earth to pluck them from the fire. Unbelievers are victims of the devil and of their own sin. They are blind and deceived “and such were some of you” (Paul said to the smug and sel-righteous in 1 Cor. 6.11)

Tom Cruise (God bless him) is not our enemy. He is (not wanting to judge him but to use him as an example) is a captive of Satan that we are sent to rescue. We should view him with compassion, not anger, or else we are only helping him toward judgment, not redemption.

The Bible says, in its most famous verse, “For God SO loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” And the next verse is important, too. It says, “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world (or Tom Cruise), but that the world through Him might be saved.”

~Jim

 

[Svt4Him]

That was the chapter I used, but it doesn't say he's our enemy.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[h]

 

[BenAdam]

Anybody else finding it difficult NOT to read a thread titled "Tom Cruise"?

OH NO! Now I have a subscription to it!

It's like a train wreck, you just have to look....