Todd Bentley

[Faulty]

I seemed to recall Abraham having faith that even if the child died, God would bring him back. But regardless, the woman was harmed? I don't seem to recall that part of the story. I guess it's only stark to those who want it to be. Interesting.

It is always amazing how we take stories of Biblical events and never realize how weird they would have been to those watching. Does it prove or disprove anything? Nope, only amazing.

I think it's amazing that when one looks at him, they see the faith of Abraham. I also think it's amazing one would pick such a story as Abraham and somehow find it fitting to apply it to TB. That's more of a 'Lego theology', find any two pieces and stick them together because it feels good.


I've watched a number of his presentations and waited until he referenced any scripture, which was usually 1 to 3 verses per sermon, and not in a row. Then I'd pause his service, look up the verse, and read it's entire context to see what the verse is saying. After that, I'd continue watching Todd to see what he said the verse meant and how he applied it.

He NEVER spoke rightly about any verse a single time! Not once! Ever! I'm not saying he never has. I'm saying I've never found an instance of it, and it's something I started to do with him from during Lakeland until around this past March. After that, what's the point?

Everything was out of context and made to fit his stories, notions, visions, assumptions, but you could never take what he said about a verse and compare it back to the scripture and conclude that's what the Bible actually taught. The man teaches 'Todd Bentley', but not anything useful.

 

[JimB]

It is amazing to me that someone as insignificant as the subject of this thread can occupy so much of our time and attention.

~Jim

Saying what you think is not the same as saying what you know.​

 

[Tobias]

I don't see anyone on this forum bringing up the subject simply to sing his praises.

What I do see though, is people wanting to speak negative things about Todd Bentley, and then turning around and criticizing those who would stand up for him or say anything positive about him. It's like they have it in their minds that all some people think about is Todd, when in fact we are simply addressing some of the things they have said that don't add up!

 

[Simon Peter]

I think it's amazing that when one looks at him, they see the faith of Abraham. I also think it's amazing one would pick such a story as Abraham and somehow find it fitting to apply it to TB. That's more of a 'Lego theology', find any two pieces and stick them together because it feels good.


I've watched a number of his presentations and waited until he referenced any scripture, which was usually 1 to 3 verses per sermon, and not in a row. Then I'd pause his service, look up the verse, and read it's entire context to see what the verse is saying. After that, I'd continue watching Todd to see what he said the verse meant and how he applied it.

He NEVER spoke rightly about any verse a single time! Not once! Ever! I'm not saying he never has. I'm saying I've never found an instance of it, and it's something I started to do with him from during Lakeland until around this past March. After that, what's the point?

Everything was out of context and made to fit his stories, notions, visions, assumptions, but you could never take what he said about a verse and compare it back to the scripture and conclude that's what the Bible actually taught. The man teaches 'Todd Bentley', but not anything useful.

This is true.

I just want to confirm what you've said. I watched hours and hours of Bentley, until I was sick of it; and read a large volume of his teachings, and he's the worst teacher I've come across. Truly horrible.

During Lakeland, the few times I saw him pick up his Bible he started laughing and jerking his head and wasn't able to communicate a cohesive scriptural message.

One thing I did learn, is that it's all about Todd.
He tells tons of stories, absolute whoppers, where Todd's always the hero.

Where's the evidence, the witnesses, the videos, the medical docs to confirm these stories, instead of just Todd telling us about it?

The two times - that I'm aware of - that someone looked into his stories, the Hotel Fire story, and the claims of people raised from the dead during Lakeland, there was no evidence. In fact the claims were found to be bogus.

I understand that Christians are inclined to believe him, because these things do happen. I've witnessed and experienced true miracles. But there's been plenty of hucksters in recent church history, and many of them were far more believable than Bentley.

It is amazing to me that someone as insignificant as the subject of this thread can occupy so much of our time and attention.

~Jim

Jim, I don't think it's merely Bentley that's taking up thread space. It's the issues Bentley so brilliantly represents:

False teachers
Judging others
Restoration of fallen leaders
Divorce and remarriage
Angel encounters
Gold dust
Manifest sons of God
Christians getting tattoos
Fleecing the flock
Dominionism
The Character of leadership
Verification of claims
The nature of revival
The New Apostolic Reformation
Discernment
Accountability for leaders
et al...

Quite honestly, I really don't care much about Bentley. But I do care about the above issues, and I care about the church.

peace,
Simon

 

[Svt4Him]

I think it's amazing that when one looks at him, they see the faith of Abraham. I also think it's amazing one would pick such a story as Abraham and somehow find it fitting to apply it to TB. That's more of a 'Lego theology', find any two pieces and stick them together because it feels good.

See, you may not be doing it on purpose, but you've now interjected your own bias into what I actually said, thereby perhaps stretching the truth to show your agenda. I said, and I was pretty clear, that OT stories probably would have seemed strange to those around who were watching. You infer I'm saying TB had the faith of Abraham, that is your story, not mine. I have no idea if God told Todd to do that. Also you said the difference is Abraham didn't hurt his child, and I simply asked if this lady was hurt. If you can't answer that, fair enough, and if that makes you want to invent a new theology, hope it makes you feel good.

 

[K2K]

Concerning angels, have we not prayed "Thy Kingdom Come"?

The Lord explained that He was a king, but that his kingdom was not of this world. He explained that if it was, those of his kingdom would be fighting for Him.

We not only preach the King, Lord Jesus Christ, but we also preach a kingdom. John was taken up to heaven, and saw and talked to angels there, and John also saw saints there. Since John was there, I can only conclude that he could have talked to the saints that he saw there, just like he talked to an angel.

Paul mentioned that he knew a man taken up to heaven. It seemed that Paul was probably talking about himself. Whoever it was, one would think that they must have saw angels and saints like John did. Just because we don't have a full account, we can't rule out the obvious.

So if someone say they were taken to heaven, and that person praises the Lord Jesus Christ, should I doubt it? John and possible Paul went, and we certainly don't have an accounting from all the Christians at that time.

I know a man that asked the Lord to be taken to heaven, like John and Paul, and he was. He didn't see much, and wasn't there long. It only seemed like a couple of minutes. He saw angels, a throne, and the Anceint of Days on the throne. He got a blessing and was returned. He didn't see people, but he thinks they were certainly in heaven, though not in the only place that he was at.

The Scriptures has a lot to say concerning scoffers. There maybe a fine line between a scoffer and someone being careful. It's a matter of the heart. I believe God can do anything. He took John and Paul to heaven, I believe He can do the same for me, so I wouldn't be surprised by a testimony from someone believing the same. The testimonty may be false, and just because I heard a testimonty, that is no reason to put someone on a pedistal. Yet why would I doubt it, especially since the Scritpures clearly indicate that it happened before? If I did, would I be a scoffer, a person that forgot that it happened in the Scritpures, someone just trying to be careful, or someone who forgot to talk to the Lord on the issue?

And back to that part about "Thy Kindgom Come!!!"

We are supposed to be asking the Father for His Kingdom to come to us. That means that we are supposed to be praying that angels will come, or did we not understand that angels are a big part of His Kingdom?

Since all angels are ministering spirits, and we are supposed to be praying that they come (the kingdom of God), then what have you heard from them? What did they minister to you?

I go to a church, and there is a "Minister" there. And he usually gives a sermon on Saturday, and three times on Sunday. I can tell you about how he ministered to me, and those praying, "Thy Kingdom Come", should be able to tell me about what the ministering angels said to them, or did the Lord forget to answer their prayer?

Here is a simple little parable an angel gave me once. He said he got it from the Lord:


There was an ant caring a large load on his back. The ant was looking up a large hill, knowing that he had to carry it all the way to the top, to the entrance of his home.

At the same time there was a little boy looking at this little pile of sand, and the little boy decided to jump right on top of it.

The question is, what is your view point of heaven?

You must become like this little child!


My friends, heaven is right there in our midst, for you to jump into, it you believe. Some however take a large load on there back thinking they must haul it all the way to the top of the mountain of God to get to heaven. The little child just jumps right in.

Be wise and not foolish, but the Kingdom of God is acuired by faith in the Lord of lords, and King of kings, Jesus Christ. Believe in him and you can ask Him to take you to heaven while you are talking to Him. You can ask Him about His angels and won't He introduce them to you?

I don't know about Todd Bently and am not looking to, but the Lord knows. It is Him (The Lord) that I seek, and He has a kingdom and His kingdom is made up of saints, ministering angels, and apparently some other being also. I only know a man that saw a single room, but I believe it is so much more that I could ever imagine. Do you believe in the Lord? Do you believe in His Kingdom? Do you pray that His Kingdom should come? Havn't you seen and heard from those in His kingdom then?

Rev 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelugah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God..."

John heard, perhaps we should have faith like John?

 

[Faulty]

See, you may not be doing it on purpose, but you've now interjected your own bias into what I actually said, thereby perhaps stretching the truth to show your agenda. I said, and I was pretty clear, that OT stories probably would have seemed strange to those around who were watching. You infer I'm saying TB had the faith of Abraham, that is your story, not mine. I have no idea if God told Todd to do that. Also you said the difference is Abraham didn't hurt his child, and I simply asked if this lady was hurt. If you can't answer that, fair enough, and if that makes you want to invent a new theology, hope it makes you feel good.

Then you need to be more clear on your responses.

 

[K2K]

This is true.

I just want to confirm what you've said. I watched hours and hours of Bentley, until I was sick of it; and read a large volume of his teachings, and he's the worst teacher I've come across. Truly horrible.

During Lakeland, the few times I saw him pick up his Bible he started laughing and jerking his head and wasn't able to communicate a cohesive scriptural message.

One thing I did learn, is that it's all about Todd.
He tells tons of stories, absolute whoppers, where Todd's always the hero.

Where's the evidence, the witnesses, the videos, the medical docs to confirm these stories, instead of just Todd telling us about it?

The two times - that I'm aware of - that someone looked into his stories, the Hotel Fire story, and the claims of people raised from the dead during Lakeland, there was no evidence. In fact the claims were found to be bogus.

I understand that Christians are inclined to believe him, because these things do happen. I've witnessed and experienced true miracles. But there's been plenty of hucksters in recent church history, and many of them were far more believable than Bentley.




Jim, I don't think it's merely Bentley that's taking up thread space. It's the issues Bentley so brilliantly represents:

False teachers
Judging others
Restoration of fallen leaders
Divorce and remarriage
Angel encounters
Gold dust
Manifest sons of God
Christians getting tattoos
Fleecing the flock
Dominionism
The Character of leadership
Verification of claims
The nature of revival
The New Apostolic Reformation
Discernment
Accountability for leaders
et al...

Quite honestly, I really don't care much about Bentley. But I do care about the above issues, and I care about the church.

peace,
Simon

I have to agree with Jim. All of the above topics mention above would be excellent topics for a thread, and perhaps Bently's name might be referenced on occasion in those threads, but if the topic was subject then it is the topic (eg. any one those topic would be fine) that would be getting the attention and not the person, Todd Bently.


A thread appears on religious spirits and turns into a discussion on Todd Bently. Then we get a thread on Todd Bently, and someone writes that they are interested in numerous topics?

Really? Was it the topics we are interested in?

If we were interested in topics, then the thread on religious spirits would not have become about a person, any person. If we were interested in topic, we would have threads on topics which stayed on topics. If I we are interested in topics, and titled the thread after a person because that person was the example, then why are we then claiming to be interested in so many topics? Can we handle all them at once?

So are we talking about a fallen leader? Well, apparently that happened. Apparently those other leaders that supported him were involved in removing him when it became clear to them. That's how it should be, right?

Or are we talking about judging others. That seems to be a problem to me. Why else does TB's name keep coming up?

Are we talking about the restoration of fallen leaders? Is that happening? Perhaps I would or wouldn't be against it. I want to talk to the Lord.

Are we talking about divorce and remarraige? The diffenitely could use a seperate thread.

Are we talking about angel encounters. We are suppose to be part of the Kingdom of God, which certainly consists of angels that serve the Lord too. I hope we all have some knowedge of angels.

And so on... each topic deserves a thread but the threads become about a person. So are we battling with powers and principalities or people? Are we looking to discuss topics or attack fallen leaders?

I don't have a problem when anyone refers to a person when making a point on a topic. I do have a problem when a person becomes the topic and others throw numerious things at him. So what is happening, really happening?

It seems the best thing to learn from these threads is not about TB but about ourselves!

 

[Simon Peter]

I have to agree with Jim. All of the above topics mention above would be excellent topics for a thread, and perhaps Bently's name might be referenced on occasion in those threads, but if the topic was subject then it is the topic (eg. any one those topic would be fine) that would be getting the attention and not the person, Todd Bently.


A thread appears on religious spirits and turns into a discussion on Todd Bently. Then we get a thread on Todd Bently, and someone writes that they are interested in numerous topics?

Really? Was it the topics we are interested in?

If we were interested in topics, then the thread on religious spirits would not have become about a person, any person. If we were interested in topic, we would have threads on topics which stayed on topics. If I we are interested in topics, and titled the thread after a person because that person was the example, then why are we then claiming to be interested in so many topics? Can we handle all them at once?

So are we talking about a fallen leader? Well, apparently that happened. Apparently those other leaders that supported him were involved in removing him when it became clear to them. That's how it should be, right?

Or are we talking about judging others. That seems to be a problem to me. Why else does TB's name keep coming up?

Are we talking about the restoration of fallen leaders? Is that happening? Perhaps I would or wouldn't be against it. I want to talk to the Lord.

Are we talking about divorce and remarraige? The diffenitely could use a seperate thread.

Are we talking about angel encounters. We are suppose to be part of the Kingdom of God, which certainly consists of angels that serve the Lord too. I hope we all have some knowedge of angels.

And so on... each topic deserves a thread but the threads become about a person. So are we battling with powers and principalities or people? Are we looking to discuss topics or attack fallen leaders?

I don't have a problem when anyone refers to a person when making a point on a topic. I do have a problem when a person becomes the topic and others throw numerious things at him. So what is happening, really happening?

It seems the best thing to learn from these threads is not about TB but about ourselves!

If you don't want to talk about Todd Bentley, why are you posting on thread titled: 'Todd Bentley'?

The internet is really quite large, there are forums and threads on every conceivable topic. Personally, I ignore thousands of topics that don't interest me, or I don't understand. I don't go around the internet trying to censor what other people want to discuss, or how they go about it.



peace,
Simon

 

[mrmccormo]

Or are we talking about judging others. That seems to be a problem to me. Why else does TB's name keep coming up?

If we're worried about going off-topic, perhaps people shouldn't keep bringing up the topic of "we shouldn't judge others!" when - clearly - no one is judging in the Biblical sense and in fact, we are exercising the exact sort of "judgment" (in truth, it is called "discernment") that Scripture demands each Christian exercise constantly, in all situations, in the face of all doctrines.

 

[whatfor]

Concerning angels, have we not prayed "Thy Kingdom Come"?

The Lord explained that He was a king, but that his kingdom was not of this world. He explained that if it was, those of his kingdom would be fighting for Him.

We not only preach the King, Lord Jesus Christ, but we also preach a kingdom. John was taken up to heaven, and saw and talked to angels there, and John also saw saints there. Since John was there, I can only conclude that he could have talked to the saints that he saw there, just like he talked to an angel.

Paul mentioned that he knew a man taken up to heaven. It seemed that Paul was probably talking about himself. Whoever it was, one would think that they must have saw angels and saints like John did. Just because we don't have a full account, we can't rule out the obvious.

So if someone say they were taken to heaven, and that person praises the Lord Jesus Christ, should I doubt it? John and possible Paul went, and we certainly don't have an accounting from all the Christians at that time.

I know a man that asked the Lord to be taken to heaven, like John and Paul, and he was. He didn't see much, and wasn't there long. It only seemed like a couple of minutes. He saw angels, a throne, and the Anceint of Days on the throne. He got a blessing and was returned. He didn't see people, but he thinks they were certainly in heaven, though not in the only place that he was at.

The Scriptures has a lot to say concerning scoffers. There maybe a fine line between a scoffer and someone being careful. It's a matter of the heart. I believe God can do anything. He took John and Paul to heaven, I believe He can do the same for me, so I wouldn't be surprised by a testimony from someone believing the same. The testimonty may be false, and just because I heard a testimonty, that is no reason to put someone on a pedistal. Yet why would I doubt it, especially since the Scritpures clearly indicate that it happened before? If I did, would I be a scoffer, a person that forgot that it happened in the Scritpures, someone just trying to be careful, or someone who forgot to talk to the Lord on the issue?

And back to that part about "Thy Kindgom Come!!!"

We are supposed to be asking the Father for His Kingdom to come to us. That means that we are supposed to be praying that angels will come, or did we not understand that angels are a big part of His Kingdom?

Since all angels are ministering spirits, and we are supposed to be praying that they come (the kingdom of God), then what have you heard from them? What did they minister to you?

I go to a church, and there is a "Minister" there. And he usually gives a sermon on Saturday, and three times on Sunday. I can tell you about how he ministered to me, and those praying, "Thy Kingdom Come", should be able to tell me about what the ministering angels said to them, or did the Lord forget to answer their prayer?

Here is a simple little parable an angel gave me once. He said he got it from the Lord:


There was an ant caring a large load on his back. The ant was looking up a large hill, knowing that he had to carry it all the way to the top, to the entrance of his home.

At the same time there was a little boy looking at this little pile of sand, and the little boy decided to jump right on top of it.

The question is, what is your view point of heaven?

You must become like this little child!


My friends, heaven is right there in our midst, for you to jump into, it you believe. Some however take a large load on there back thinking they must haul it all the way to the top of the mountain of God to get to heaven. The little child just jumps right in.

Be wise and not foolish, but the Kingdom of God is acuired by faith in the Lord of lords, and King of kings, Jesus Christ. Believe in him and you can ask Him to take you to heaven while you are talking to Him. You can ask Him about His angels and won't He introduce them to you?

I don't know about Todd Bently and am not looking to, but the Lord knows. It is Him (The Lord) that I seek, and He has a kingdom and His kingdom is made up of saints, ministering angels, and apparently some other being also. I only know a man that saw a single room, but I believe it is so much more that I could ever imagine. Do you believe in the Lord? Do you believe in His Kingdom? Do you pray that His Kingdom should come? Havn't you seen and heard from those in His kingdom then?

Rev 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelugah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God..."

John heard, perhaps we should have faith like John?

Probably off topic but your post reminded me of something Randy Clark was told by Carlos Anacondia when asked why they see so many miracles in their meetings.
He said westerners do not ask angels into the meetings.

 

[JimB]

You know, I, for one, really don't care if I ever "see" (with my natural eyes) an angel. I do not have to see them to believe in them nor do I believe, as Anaconda apparently does, that they minister to us only by invitation.

~Jim

 

[mrmccormo]

You know, I, for one, really don't care if I ever "see" (with my natural eyes) an angel. I do not have to see them to believe in them nor do I believe, as Anaconda apparently does, that they minister to us only by invitation.

~Jim

I'm with you there, sir. My own apprehension (or "lack of faith" some might ping) comes from the fact that not once in the Bible does a person pray specifically that they might see an angel or receive a visitation from angels. I try to model my behavior after the saints of Scripture, if at all possible.

And every time an angel does show up in Scripture, it is random, surprising, sometimes even terrifying, and the visitation always comes with a message, not just "hey, look at me. I'm shiny and really cool-looking, so take a gander"

 

[JimB]

I'm with you there, sir. My own apprehension (or "lack of faith" some might ping) comes from the fact that not once in the Bible does a person pray specifically that they might see an angel or receive a visitation from angels. I try to model my behavior after the saints of Scripture, if at all possible.

And every time an angel does show up in Scripture, it is random, surprising, sometimes even terrifying, and the visitation always comes with a message, not just "hey, look at me. I'm shiny and really cool-looking, so take a gander"

Don’t let anyone condemn you by insisting on the worship of angels, saying they have had visions about these things. Their sinful minds have made them proud. (Col. 2.18)

 

[whatfor]

You know, I, for one, really don't care if I ever "see" (with my natural eyes) an angel. I do not have to see them to believe in them nor do I believe, as Anaconda apparently does, that they minister to us only by invitation.

~Jim

Wow that was twisted.
I do not believe that was what was said, but never mind.
I guess the fruit is not important.

 

[JimB]

Wow that was twisted.
I do not believe that was what was said, but never mind.
I guess the fruit is not important.

Who said I was answering what was "said"? I was just stating an opinion.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion. ~John Wimber​

 

[whatfor]

Who said I was answering what was "said"? I was just stating an opinion.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion. ~John Wimber​

Sorry

 

[Yitzchak]

You know, I, for one, really don't care if I ever "see" (with my natural eyes) an angel. I do not have to see them to believe in them nor do I believe, as Anaconda apparently does, that they minister to us only by invitation.

~Jim

Actually , the idea of receiving blessings from God because we invite them is quite biblical. The whole concept of prayer is based upon us asking God for things as opposed to just letting happen whatever is going to happen. I think asking for angels to move on our behalf is more biblical than a " que sera sera " attitude about the spiritual realm.

Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Luk 11:8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.
Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
Luk 11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

If the Holy Spirit moves by invitation , then why not God's angel armies ?

 

[Tobias]

1Cor 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.


The way I see things, we are all partially blinded by the veil that separates us from the spiritual realm. From scripture we can see that this is just a part of how things are; that God seems to have a purpose for the veil and we are not encouraged in any way to try to remove it.

There are however, some people who seem to be less blinded by it than others. The typical Evangelical response to this is to ask those who see to stab themselves in their spiritual eyes so that they could be just as blind as everybody else! We are taught that if we see more than others, then all we see is a world fabricated by Satan, full of lies and misconceptions (because it doesn't line up with some blind person's theology of what they imagine is out there).

As for myself, God has been slowly lifting parts of the veil over the course of my lifetime of walking with Him. I don't think this is unreasonable to expect that He can do so if He chooses. What I have found is that the spiritual realm is very complex, and that it makes a really big difference where we choose to look into it as to what we will see. Often enough we have issues with God, and therefor do not think to look into the throne Room and participate in the worship happening there. We prefer instead to go wallow in the mud with other beings who are full of self pity or other issues that keep them out of His Presence.


Refusing to accept an opportunity to meet an angel, is really not much different from refusing to read a Christian author because you'd "rather read just the Bible instead." Sometimes there are insights to be gained from reading other people's opinions. Sometimes God guides us to servants He has sent with a message that will free our lives. But whoever the servant is, whether man or angel, the fact is nobody is perfect except God. There is always a danger that we will be misled if we put too much faith in the messenger!

 

[mrmccormo]

If the Holy Spirit moves by invitation , then why not God's angel armies ?

Because Scripture never tells us to call down angels and focus on them. Every time an angel shows up in Scripture and the witnesses try to worship it, the angels says "Stop worshipping me. I simply have a message". Then they tell the message and bust outta there.

The only time in Scripture that a whole host of angels sticks around is when the host of angels appears to the shepherds. Then again, they had a message (the Christ is born). It wasn't just a random visitation.

That's my problem with meetings and "revivals" that try to call down angels. There's never a purpose except just for the sake of seeing angels.

And I actually really, really hate it when people twist Jesus' Luke 11 quote as if it applies to any and all things we might ask for.