today's slavery vs slavery of the 1800s

[dogs4thewin]

If people have so much issues with the slaves of yesyear and the way they were treated ( not saying that slavery was right, but clearly there were many of slaves that were provided for and even chose to stay with their masters once freed.

This being the case why is it that today's slaves (in a sense in a much worse spot because they are often not provided for and there is more slaves now than there has EVER been number two ( along with the fact that there are more of them which tells me in ad of itself that either people do not care or for slavery to be illegal they are AWFUL are enforcing it ( in terms of the owners) The real kicker though is depending on where you are today's slaves actually have to prove that they are slaves so that THEY will not face legal charges ( that depends on location and the age of the person, but still for people to say that slavery is SO wrong ( not saying it is not but for people to assert that it is so wrong and is illegal they surely have done a VERY poor job of ridding the world of it.

In short why do people have such a problem with the slavery of yesterday and yet there are more slaves now than ever and some of the laws actually STILL favor the owners why does it seem to matter what "kind" of slaves they were sex slaves as opposed to working slaves.

In fact, the human "black market" that is the slave market ( trafficing humans is I believe the largest black market in the world. For people to be so up in arms about the slavery of 100s of years ago it sure seems like the only thing that has really changed is what the slaves are expected to do and if anything they are treated worse now ( on the whole than they were then what gives?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

The only person who claimed slavery was anything other than awful is you. This whole thread is not a good look.

 

[dogs4thewin]

The only person who claimed slavery was anything other than awful is you. This whole thread is not a good look.

that was not the question

The question was if we are going to claim that slavery was so wrong ( and as in the other thread I am NOT supposing owning people was right ( though I do agree with my grandad that the pretrayal of how most slaves were treated and that slavery was in fact likely God's plan to get black people here. The issue in this thread though is why is it that people ( in particular the people who could do the most about (the law) seem to either not have an issue with sex slavery or at the very least have yet to for the most part come up with a better way to enforce laws forbidding it.

Is not slavery slavery if you are going to say one is awful and cheer the removal of anything and everything that has anything to do with it does it not make sense that we should have less slavery as opposed to the most ever Does it not make sense that people the law and otherwise would not do a better job of trying to stop slavery now?

 

[Tropical Wilds]

that was not the question

The question was if we are going to claim that slavery was so wrong ( and as in the other thread I am NOT supposing owning people was right ( though I do agree with my grandad that the pretrayal of how most slaves were treated and that slavery was in fact likely God's plan to get black people here. The issue in this thread though is why is it that people ( in particular the people who could do the most about (the law) seem to either not have an issue with sex slavery or at the very least have yet to for the most part come up with a better way to enforce laws forbidding it.

Is not slavery slavery if you are going to say one is awful and cheer the removal of anything and everything that has anything to do with it does it not make sense that we should have less slavery as opposed to the most ever Does it not make sense that people the law and otherwise would not do a better job of trying to stop slavery now?

I think literally everybody on the other thread, excluding yourself, was pretty darn clear that slavery in any and all of its forms, modern or historic, is appalling, barbaric, immoral, and unethical.

Like I said, the only one who was wavering on the topic was you. The fact you think it was God’s plan for people (specifically your family) to enslave people is not only ridiculously racist and ignorant, it stands apart as Nazi-level extreme bigotry.

Frankly, I find your level of racism and bigotry to such a degree that I cannot in good conscience be associated with or talk to you. It’s against every belief in my body to give you the time of day, much less a platform or excuse to freely and openly be hateful and bigoted.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I think literally everybody on the other thread, excluding yourself, was pretty darn clear that slavery in any and all of its forms, modern or historic, is appalling, barbaric, immoral, and unethical.

Like I said, the only one who was wavering on the topic was you.

Again that was not my point the people in the other thread the question was if people (in general) feel so strongly that anything and everything that has anything to do with slavery should be removed like it never happened then why is it that people ( including the law) have such a tough time enforcing laws forbidding modern slavery and even at times FORCING victims to prove they are in fact victims of slavery/trafficing to avoid facing charges themselves.

Is not slavery slavery why is it that on the whole there seems to be lack of (effective) action to stop modern day slavery when people ( general) want to remove anything and everything that has anything to do with the slavery of yesterday what are those paintings stauates ECT hurting at this point what does them being there or not change about history (or people's present ability to do whatever they wish go to college, work whatever job ECT no one alive today was a slave or a master and there is nothing that can be done to change the past and yet the slavery we today can in fact do something about is worse than ever and laws forbidding it are VERY poorly enforced if at all.

 

[WolfGate]

Just stop. This thread is one of the most pathetic whatbaoutisms I have seen.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Again that was not my point the people in the other thread the question was if people (in general) feel so strongly that anything and everything that has anything to do with slavery should be removed like it never happened then why is it that people ( including the law) have such a tough time enforcing laws forbidding modern slavery and even at times FORCING victims to prove they are in fact victims of slavery/trafficing to avoid facing charges themselves.

Is not slavery slavery why is it that on the whole there seems to be lack of (effective) action to stop modern day slavery when people ( general) want to remove anything and everything that has anything to do with the slavery of yesterday what are those paintings stauates ECT hurting at this point what does them being there or not change about history (or people's present ability to do whatever they wish go to college, work whatever job ECT no one alive today was a slave or a master and there is nothing that can be done to change the past and yet the slavery we today can in fact do something about is worse than ever and laws forbidding it are VERY poorly enforced if at all.

Again, as I said before, I find your level of willful ignorance in an attempt to justify and excuse your own racist beliefs and bigotry. I refuse to interact with somebody so unapologetically racist.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Again, as I said before, I find your level of willful ignorance in an attempt to justify and excuse your own racist beliefs and bigotry. I refuse to interact with somebody so unapologetically racist.

If I were racist I am pretty sure I would not have hired a black person as the only person I have ever employed who by the way was a great employee, nor would be willing to vote for black people ( which I AM in fact willing to do. ) This by the way is despite the fact that my first experenice with a black person involved near daily battery and verbal abuse, yet my parents taught me as Martin Luther King said to judge a man/ woman by their charecter and not the color of their skin. You tell me would I do such things if I were racist if I were racist then I would judge all black people by my experenice with the ONE abusive black person I dealt with at seven . Two of my favorite teachers were also black ( a high school U.S. history teacher he was BLACK I mean dark and a college math teacher ( thanks to her tutoring that was the first A I had earned in math ( as a final grade since probably middle school or earlier. People who are racist would not remember tat race as some of the best people they have ever worked.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

If I were racist I am pretty sure I would not have hired a black person as the only person I have ever employed who by the way was a great employee, nor would be willing to vote for black people ( which I AM in fact willing to do. ) This by the way is despite the fact that my first experenice with a black person involved near daily battery and verbal abuse, yet my parents taught me as Martin Luther King said to judge a man/ woman by their charecter and not the color of their skin. You tell me would I do such things if I were racist if I were racist then I would judge all black people by my experenice with the ONE abusive black person I dealt with at seven . Two of my favorite teachers were also black ( a high school U.S. history teacher he was BLACK I mean dark and a college math teacher ( thanks to her tutoring that was the first A I had earned in math ( as a final grade since probably middle school or earlier. People who are racist would not remember tat race as some of the best people they have ever worked.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Hans Blaster]

If people have so much issues with the slaves of yesyear and the way they were treated ( not saying that slavery was right, but clearly there were many of slaves that were provided for and even chose to stay with their masters once freed.

Ugh. "Masters", what a disgusting term. We cannot condone your apologetic for slavery of yore.

This being the case why is it that today's slaves (in a sense in a much worse spot because they are often not provided for and there is more slaves now than there has EVER been number two ( along with the fact that there are more of them which tells me in ad of itself that either people do not care or for slavery to be illegal they are AWFUL are enforcing it ( in terms of the owners)

(punctuation would have been nice)

Are there more "slaves" now than before (in the US for example). I suppose it could be the case, but there is huge population increase so the fraction who are held to labor against their will is smaller without doubt. And modern slaves whether they work in sweatshops or brothels are often kept in restrictive housing and provided meager food, just like the slaves of yore.

The real kicker though is depending on where you are today's slaves actually have to prove that they are slaves so that THEY will not face legal charges ( that depends on location and the age of the person, but still for people to say that slavery is SO wrong ( not saying it is not but for people to assert that it is so wrong and is illegal they surely have done a VERY poor job of ridding the world of it.

Unlike the days of yore when slave drivers could practice their oppression openly, today's cruel masters of bondage and forced labor do so in the shadows. They make efforts to conceal what they are doing. "Oh, no, officer, these E. European teenage girls are models and we provide them with lodging in our dorm. They are not forced sex workers." They pay nominal wages and get work permits, but reclaim most of the wages for "room and board" and hold passports for control. There are also so many forms of worker exploitation that grade smoothly from honest compensation to proper slavery.

In short why do people have such a problem with the slavery of yesterday and yet there are more slaves now than ever and some of the laws actually STILL favor the owners why does it seem to matter what "kind" of slaves they were sex slaves as opposed to working slaves.

In fact, the human "black market" that is the slave market ( trafficing humans is I believe the largest black market in the world. For people to be so up in arms about the slavery of 100s of years ago it sure seems like the only thing that has really changed is what the slaves are expected to do and if anything they are treated worse now ( on the whole than they were then what gives?

Today's slavery and other forms of worker exploitation are generally illegal and are combated by law enforcement. The slavery of the past was legal and open and today remains as a socioeconomic and political problem. (The unwillingness of many to deal with the actual histories of our country, regions, states, localities, and families combined with 150 years of efforts against the formerly enslaved and their descendants.)

Solving today's slavery and exploitation problem *must* also include dealing with the large grey labor market fueled by the use (and exploitation) of unauthorized immigrant laborers. That huge market makes the more cruel forms of exploitation easier to hide.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Thank you for proving my point.

Honest question how does that make me racist? Racism is when you hate people and judge people by the color of their skin when you feel that you are better than someone because of the color of their skin. I hold no such views I judge people based on their actions not what color they are, and will hire vote for ECT whomever I feel is the better for the postition ( office whatever) That is far from racist I am no better than any black person just because they are black in fact I admit there are PLENTY of black people that are better than I am at any number of jobs.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Ugh. "Masters", what a disgusting term. We cannot condone your apologetic for slavery of yore.

(punctuation would have been nice)

Are there more "slaves" now than before (in the US for example). I suppose it could be the case, but there is huge population increase so the fraction who are held to labor against their will is smaller without doubt. And modern slaves whether they work in sweatshops or brothels are often kept in restrictive housing and provided meager food, just like the slaves of yore.


Unlike the days of yore when slave drivers could practice their oppression openly, today's cruel masters of bondage and forced labor do so in the shadows. They make efforts to conceal what they are doing. "Oh, no, officer, these E. European teenage girls are models and we provide them with lodging in our dorm. They are not forced sex workers." They pay nominal wages and get work permits, but reclaim most of the wages for "room and board" and hold passports for control. There are also so many forms of worker exploitation that grade smoothly from honest compensation to proper slavery.


Today's slavery and other forms of worker exploitation are generally illegal and are combated by law enforcement. The slavery of the past was legal and open and today remains as a socioeconomic and political problem. (The unwillingness of many to deal with the actual histories of our country, regions, states, localities, and families combined with 150 years of efforts against the formerly enslaved and their descendants.)

Solving today's slavery and exploitation problem *must* also include dealing with the large grey labor market fueled by the use (and exploitation) of unauthorized immigrant laborers. That huge market makes the more cruel forms of exploitation easier to hide.

They were called masters back in the day. I know you know that, but using the proper terms is not condoning something. Another example, suppose I am watching a movie that took place in the 50s if that movie is historicly actuate and took place in the south the black people and white people will be seperated that does not mean that the directors condone that that means that they are making the movie historiclly actuate.

 

[Miles]

If people have so much issues with the slaves of yesyear and the way they were treated ( not saying that slavery was right, but clearly there were many of slaves that were provided for and even chose to stay with their masters once freed.

Probably because the slaves were deprived of the same opportunities (education, social, career, etc.) afforded to their masters, Stockholm Syndrome, or a combination of the two. Just because they chose to stay that doesn't mean it's what they would have preferred. More a matter of darned if they did, darned if they didn't, than suggesting anything good about slavery.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Probably because the slaves were deprived of the same opportunities (education, social, career, etc.) afforded to their masters, Stockholm Syndrome, or a combination of the two. Just because they chose to stay that doesn't mean it's what they would have preferred. More a matter of darned if they did, darned if they didn't, than suggesting anything good about slavery.

maybe so, but still does not change the fact that while people are bound and determined to try to rid the world of anything and everything that had that has to do with yesterday's slavery that today has NO impact on anyone's ability to do whatever they wish and yet modern slavery is not only bigger business, but in spite of being illegal is POORLY enforced again even to the point of victims having to prove their status as victims it seems that people are focusing more on the slavery that nothing can be done about at this point than they are at ACTUALLY improving the situation of slavery today which they CAN do something about.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They were called masters back in the day. I know you know that, but using the proper terms is not condoning something. Another example, suppose I am watching a movie that took place in the 50s if that movie is historicly actuate and took place in the south the black people and white people will be seperated that does not mean that the directors condone that that means that they are making the movie historiclly actuate.

We're not writing realistic dialog for a historical fiction. We are talking about it in the modern day. (Nice work avoiding the rest of my post by catching a "terminology complaint.)

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Probably because the slaves were deprived of the same opportunities (education, social, career, etc.) afforded to their masters, Stockholm Syndrome, or a combination of the two. Just because they chose to stay that doesn't mean it's what they would have preferred. More a matter of darned if they did, darned if they didn't, than suggesting anything good about slavery.

It’s also because their being “free” was baloney.

They were prevented from holding most jobs, buying land, voting, inheriting money, goods, or land, barred from schools, colleges, and in some areas forbidden from even owning animals. So while they were “free,” their lack of liberty and generational poverty paired with the lack of opportunity meant they had nowhere to go and nothing to do and no means to change it.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Honest question how does that make me racist? Racism is when you hate people and judge people by the color of their skin when you feel that you are better than someone because of the color of their skin. I hold no such views I judge people based on their actions not what color they are, and will hire vote for ECT whomever I feel is the better for the postition ( office whatever) That is far from racist I am no better than any black person just because they are black in fact I admit there are PLENTY of black people that are better than I am at any number of jobs.

Saying racist things but then saying you have black friends doesn’t make you not racist. It means you’re racist with forgiving friends (or friends who aren’t aware of your racist stances).

 

[dogs4thewin]

Saying racist things but then saying you have black friends doesn’t make you not racist. It means you’re racist with forgiving friends (or friends who aren’t aware of your racist stances).

so you are claiming that I am racist because I realize that we cannot change history and realize that while wrong not all slave owners treated their slaves in the way that is shown on movies and in fact many owners treated their slaves MUCH better than those slaves could have done on their own ( whether it be because of the way that the government was set ( could not get other jobs or for any other reasons that is not being racist, nor is it condoning slavery that is stating history that you nor I nor anyone alive today can change. Pointing out that appenting to remove any and all even slight refeferences to anything that has to do with slavery is stupid and has no impact on current day black people's ability to get into college jobs whatever else is not being racist it is stating a fact

Being racist would be me feeling that I am better than black people and feeling that they could not do what I can BECAUSE of the color of their skin. Being racist would be me judging people on the color of their skin and not for who they are. Stating facts as it relates to history is not racist. I would feel the same way if it were white, Hispanic Asian ECT that were impacted by the same behaviors of any other race or the same race for that matter.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

so you are claiming that I am racist…

Yes. Full stop. Further reading not needed.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Yes. Full stop. Further reading not needed.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this point.