TODAY you will be with me in paradise

[tonychanyt]

Luke 23:

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”​

i.e., the second coming on the last day of the current universe

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”​

This criminal died on his last day on Earth. When a person dies, time stops with respect to him (e.g., gravitational time dilation). When he is resurrected, he will be with Jesus in paradise. To him, it will be the same day: today, i.e., the last day of the old universe. From his perspective and God's perspective, there wasn't even any waiting. His today is the same as his last day on the old earth and is the same as the last day of the universe after he is resurrected, John 6:

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the **last day**.”​

In terms of physics, a wormhole (Einstein-Rosen bridge) is a structure that connects two black holes. It is possible that an object that falls into one end of a wormhole can travel through it and come out at the other end at a different point in space-time.

Some believe that the dead have a conscious spirit/physical existence in Sheol/Hades as in the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus. I think that is a parable meant to be symbolic and not physical.

I don't think our dead loved ones can presently see us from heaven.

Another Lazarus was not a parable but a real person. He was the brother of Mary and Martha. He was dead for 4 days (John 11:39). I don't think he would appreciate Jesus resurrecting him while he was enjoying his time in heaven.

Some think that Jesus said: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

In that case, it makes more sense that Jesus would say: “Truly I tell you now, you will be with me in paradise.” To say "I tell you today", the word "today" is redundant.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Luke 23:

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”​

i.e., the second coming on the last day of the current universe

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”​

This criminal died on his last day on Earth. When a person dies, time stops with respect to him (e.g., gravitational time dilation). When he is resurrected, he will be with Jesus in paradise. To him, it will be the same day: today, i.e., the last day of the old universe. From his perspective and God's perspective, there wasn't even any waiting. His today is the same as his last day on the old earth and is the same as the last day of the universe after he is resurrected

YES! I am glad someone else here also believes this! I have been saying this for many years now!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Luke 23:

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”​

i.e., the second coming on the last day of the current universe

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”​

This criminal died on his last day on Earth. When a person dies, time stops with respect to him (e.g., gravitational time dilation). When he is resurrected, he will be with Jesus in paradise. To him, it will be the same day: today, i.e., the last day of the old universe. From his perspective and God's perspective, there wasn't even any waiting. His today is the same as his last day on the old earth and is the same as the last day of the universe after he is resurrected, John 6:

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the **last day**.”​

In terms of physics, a wormhole (Einstein-Rosen bridge) is a structure that connects two black holes. It is possible that an object that falls into one end of a wormhole can travel through it and come out at the other end at a different point in space-time.

Some believe that the dead have a conscious spirit existence in Sheol/Hades as in the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus. I think that is a parable meant to be symbolic and not physical.

I don't think our dead loved ones can presently see us from heaven.

Another Lazarus was not a parable but a real person. He was the brother of Mary and Martha. He was dead for 4 days (John 11:39). I don't think he would appreciate Jesus resurrecting him while he was enjoying his time in heaven.

Yes, the comma was never in the original text, it was added by man.

See what a difference a comma makes?

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes, the comma was never in the original text, it was added by man.

See what a difference a comma makes?

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

The original Greek says: "and He said to him Amen to you I say today with me you will be in to paradise"

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Some hold that "paradise" was "Abrahams' Bosom" located in the center of the earth across a gap from hades. Recall the rich man and Lazarus story.
They say Jesus and the thief went to the paradise of "Abrahams' Bosom" which held all the OT righteous dead. He preached to them, and when Jesus was raised from the dead, they were also all raised with Him and went to heaven. These hold that the paradise of Abrahams' Bosom is now empty, having fulfilled its purpose.
This is what I have been taught. I am watching...

 

[Clare73]

Luke 23:

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”​

i.e., the second coming on the last day of the current universe

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”​

This criminal died on his last day on Earth. When a person dies, time stops with respect to him (e.g., gravitational time dilation). When he is resurrected, he will be with Jesus in paradise.

Jesus' spirit was in paradise upon his death, and the thief on the cross was with him at that time.

To him, it will be the same day: today, i.e., the last day of the old universe. From his perspective and God's perspective, there wasn't even any waiting. His today is the same as his last day on the old earth and is the same as the last day of the universe after he is resurrected, John 6:

40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the **last day**.”​

In terms of physics, a wormhole (Einstein-Rosen bridge) is a structure that connects two black holes. It is possible that an object that falls into one end of a wormhole can travel through it and come out at the other end at a different point in space-time.

Some believe that the dead have a conscious spirit existence in Sheol/Hades as in the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus. I think that is a parable meant to be symbolic and not physical.

I don't think our dead loved ones can presently see us from heaven.

Another Lazarus was not a parable but a real person. He was the brother of Mary and Martha. He was dead for 4 days (John 11:39). I don't think he would appreciate Jesus resurrecting him while he was enjoying his time in heaven.

 

[tonychanyt]

Jesus' spirit was in paradise upon his death, and the thief on the cross was with him at that time.

Do you distinguish between spirit and soul?

 

[Blade]

Well Christ said today you will be with me in paradise amen other stuff you said falls in to speculation since its not written..

"and said to him Jesus, truly I say to you, [to you I say] Today with me you shall be in Paradise." Odd to say but where the Greek agree on is today with Christ he is in Paradise.

 

[Clare73]

Do you distinguish between spirit and soul?

Distinguish is all I can do. I can't separate them because the same functions are assigned to both:
Man is made of
body and soul - Mt 6:25, 10:28, Lk 12:20, Ac 20:10,
body and spirit - Lk 8:55, 1 Co 5:3, 7:34, Jas 2:26.

The emotions are associated with the
soul - Mt 26:38,
spirit - Jn 13:21.

Rejoicing is associated with the
soul - Ps 35:9,
spirit - Lk 1:47.

 

[tonychanyt]

Distinguish is all I can do.

See What happens to your soul when you die? and follow up there

 

[Clare73]

See What happens to your soul when you die? and follow up there

I see no Biblical data there which alters my post #9.

 

[tonychanyt]

I see no Biblical data there which alters my post #9.

Can you explain your logic step by step?

 

[Diamond72]

To him, it will be the same day: today,

each day is a gift from God

Proverbs 4:18
But the path of the just is as the shining light,
that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Yes, the comma was never in the original text, it was added by man.

See what a difference a comma makes?

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The expression “Truly I tell you” followed by a statement belonged to Jesus alone. No one else uses it in Scripture. In the synoptic gospels it is always “Truly I tell you” followed by a statement. In the gospel of John it is always “Truly, Truly, I tell you” followed by a statement. Altogether, in the four gospels combined the expression “Truly (Truly) I tell you” followed by a statement occurs about 70 times. In at least 69 of those occasions, Jesus always followed the “Truly (Truly) I tell you” with the statement he wanted to make. Yet in this one instance we are to believe that Jesus altered his “Truly I tell you” followed by a statement with a “Truly I tell you today” followed by a statement.

In context, it seems easier to believe that Jesus meant exactly what the translators thought it did, that is, “Truly I tell you, today you shall be with me in Paradise”. After all, the malefactor who was being crucified with Jesus knew what the day was. The JW's translate this as "Truly I tell you today, you shall be with me in Paradise."

I can't rule it out entirely, but it seems unlikely that Jesus would have used "Truly I tell you today, you shall be with me in Paradise".

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The expression “Truly I tell you” followed by a statement belonged to Jesus alone. No one else uses it in Scripture. In the synoptic gospels it is always “Truly I tell you” followed by a statement. In the gospel of John it is always “Truly, Truly, I tell you” followed by a statement. Altogether, in the four gospels combined the expression “Truly (Truly) I tell you” followed by a statement occurs about 70 times. In at least 69 of those occasions, Jesus always followed the “Truly (Truly) I tell you” with the statement he wanted to make. Yet in this one instance we are to believe that Jesus altered his “Truly I tell you” followed by a statement with a “Truly I tell you today” followed by a statement.

In context, it seems easier to believe that Jesus meant exactly what the translators thought it did, that is, “Truly I tell you, today you shall be with me in Paradise”. After all, the malefactor who was being crucified with Jesus knew what the day was. The JW's translate this as "Truly I tell you today, you shall be with me in Paradise."

I can't rule it out entirely, but it seems unlikely that Jesus would have used "Truly I tell you today, you shall be with me in Paradise".

Jesus didn't go to paradise "today "when He said that before dying, He rested in His tomb and didn't rise again until the first day and stayed with His disciples before ascending back to heaven. There is no scripture that says we go to heaven upon our death, the saved are raised at the Second Coming of Jesus. Judgement is the last day, not when we die.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 22:12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

John 12:48 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, the comma was never in the original text, it was added by man.

See what a difference a comma makes?

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

That makes "today" redundant, which is why a comma was put after "you."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That makes "today" redundant, which is why a comma was put after "you."

Jesus didn't go to paradise "today" He was on the Cross dying for the penalty of our sins. But He did tell the thief on that day (today), that he would be saved, meaning when the dead in Christ rise and meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, he will be with Jesus in paradise.

 

[Clare73]

Jesus didn't go to paradise "today" He was on the Cross dying for the penalty of our sins. But He did tell the thief on that day (today), that he would be saved, meaning when the dead in Christ rise and meet Jesus in the air at His Second Coming, he will be with Jesus in paradise.

Where was his spirit when they took him down from the cross?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Where was his spirit when they took him down from the cross?

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Clare73]

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

That doesn't answer my question.