TO THOSE WHO ARE INVESTIGATING "MORMONISM"

[calgal]

Why is the Mormon church so concerned about the public having access to information involving their procedures for name removal from their membership rolls?

Good question. And why is it that those who do provide the information needed to correctly resign ones membeship in that group are harrassed? I like this site for Mormons wanting to resign: http://www.mormonnomore.com myself. The site owner is quite happy to assist folks in writing their exit letters.

One other question I have for Mormons is this: Why has there been NO financial disclosure since 1959 by your church? What are they hiding?

 

[Wrigley]

Good question. And why is it that those who do provide the information needed to correctly resign ones membeship in that group are harrassed? I like this site for Mormons wanting to resign: http://www.mormonnomore.com myself. The site owner is quite happy to assist folks in writing their exit letters.

One other question I have for Mormons is this: Why has there been NO financial disclosure since 1959 by your church? What are they hiding?

Really? There has been no financial disclosure since '59? That's really something to think about. The Consistory of my local congregation lists its budget yearly. In fact, we have a congregational meeting in a few weeks to approve or disapprove next years budget. Everything is out in the open. The way it should be.

 

[twhite982]

Really? There has been no financial disclosure since '59? That's really something to think about. The Consistory of my local congregation lists its budget yearly. In fact, we have a congregational meeting in a few weeks to approve or disapprove next years budget. Everything is out in the open. The way it should be.

Really now, what do you care if the LDS church has not disclosed its financial statements since 1959, you're not a member?

If anyone should raise a stink about it, it should be the LDS church membership! And personally it doesn't bother me.

TW

 

[Wrigley]

Really now, what do you care if the LDS church has not disclosed its financial statements since 1959, you're not a member?

If anyone should raise a stink about it, it should be the LDS church membership! And personally it doesn't bother me.

TW

It doesn't bother you that you don't know where your 10% tithe goes? You don't suspect any illegal uses of the huge amount of cash the mormon church rakes in? Don't you care about accountability? Or is this just one more case of "the prophet, (profit) says everything is kosher, so that's all I need?"

And I can tell from your response that what calgal stated is true. I expected a denial of calgal's statement, not the "it's none of your business" response.

 

[twhite982]

It doesn't bother you that you don't know where your 10% tithe goes?

No

You don't suspect any illegal uses of the huge amount of cash the mormon church rakes in?

No

Don't you care about accountability?

I have a hard enough time being accountable for what I do let alone someone else. This helps me out in that I'm not so consumed by material items. God gives me all and I shouldn't be greedy with any of it.

The accountability of that money rests with the church. There are many saints who sacrifice very much to faithfully pay their tithe each month and I wouldn't want to face the Lord in the last day for misuse of that money and neither does the leadership of the LDS church.

Or is this just one more case of "the prophet, (profit) says everything is kosher, so that's all I need?"

And I can tell from your response that what calgal stated is true. I expected a denial of calgal's statement, not the "it's none of your business" response.

I didn't say it was none of her business, I was just amazed that she would be concerned about it, since it doesn't affect her at all.

I don't blindly follow the prophet nor does he ask anyone to do that. What he asks is very biblical and I am honored to be able to help build the kingdom of God.

TW

 

[Wrigley]

I have a hard enough time being accountable for what I do let alone someone else. This helps me out in that I'm not so consumed by material items. God gives me all and I shouldn't be greedy with any of it.

So wondering if the money you tithe is used correctly is a sign of greed? Interesting.

 

[baker]

Doc,

Don't say I didn't warn you!

It's better to let a sleeping dog lie!!!

 

[twhite982]

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So wondering if the money you tithe is used correctly is a sign of greed? Interesting.

I really don't understand your statement.

 

[LovingMother]

It doesn't bother you that you don't know where your 10% tithe goes? You don't suspect any illegal uses of the huge amount of cash the mormon church rakes in? Don't you care about accountability? Or is this just one more case of "the prophet, (profit) says everything is kosher, so that's all I need?"

If there is any wrongdoing on the part of church leaders regarding the tithe of its patrons then those church leaders will be accountable to God regardless of what "the prophet" says. TW is required by his beliefs to tithe. Is he required to hold the leaders of his church accountable for whatever wrongdoings they may be participating in?

 

[twhite982]

If there is any wrongdoing on the part of church leaders regarding the tithe of its patrons then those church leaders will be accountable to God regardless of what "the prophet" says. TW is required by his beliefs to tithe. Is he required to hold the leaders of his church accountable for whatever wrongdoings they may be participating in?

I don't consider tithing a requirement at all. I try to give cheerfully, at least that is the plan.

As far as holding the church leaders accountable, I don't think this is something I need to be overly concerned about. Now if it was found out there was gross mis-handling of tithing funds then I would pay a little more attention, but until then they have my confidence!

TW

 

[baker]

Why is the Mormon church so concerned about the public having access to information involving their procedures for name removal from their membership rolls?

Rejoice,

In all fairness, I think any religious sect or denomination would feel pretty uneasy about this type of information being presented in a public domain - not just the mormon church.

The reason I say this is because, from a public relations perspective, to admit there are any restrictive procedures for egress of membership in what is supposed to be a voluntary acceptance organization, also is an affirmation of unauthorized control. This is would be very negative on any church in their efforts to encourage membership.

Does this make sense to you?

 

[Wrigley]

I really don't understand your statement.

Your statement implies that those who wonder if the tithe is spent wrong are greedy.

 

[twhite982]

Your statement implies that those who wonder if the tithe is spent wrong are greedy.

I disagree. My statement was a personal one and I didn't want it connected to everyone.

TW

 

[Wrigley]

I disagree. My statement was a personal one and I didn't want it connected to everyone.

TW

I don't believe you.

 

[Rejoice]

Rejoice,

In all fairness, I think any religious sect or denomination would feel pretty uneasy about this type of information being presented in a public domain - not just the mormon church.

The reason I say this is because, from a public relations perspective, to admit there are any restrictive procedures for egress of membership in what is supposed to be a voluntary acceptance organization, also is an affirmation of unauthorized control. This is would be very negative on any church in their efforts to encourage membership.

Does this make sense to you?

No, this doesn't make sense. I don't know about your church, but mine doesn't have a public relations director! If someone wants to rescind their membership, it is a very simple process. It isn't a big deal and there is nothing secret about it. It is difficult to understand why any church or sect would seek to even have this kind of control. Membership in a church is considered voluntary. I understand that this could be something that the Mormon Church does not want the public to be aware of.

Do you think that the lawsuit was really about copyright issues, or was the real purpose to prevent this information from being available to those who wish to resign?

 

[Wrigley]

No, this doesn't make sense. I don't know about your church, but mine doesn't have a public relations director! If someone wants to rescind their membership, it is a very simple process. It isn't a big deal and there is nothing secret about it. It is difficult to understand why any church or sect would seek to even have this kind of control. Membership in a church is considered voluntary. I understand that this could be something that the Mormon Church does not want the public to be aware of.

One potential reason is the growth and membership that the mormon church brags about. The tougher the mormon church makes it to get off the rolls, the more people it can claim as members. I have heard estimates that the published membership rolls are inflated.

Do you think that the lawsuit was really about copyright issues, or was the real purpose to prevent this information from being available to those who wish to resign?

Personally, I believe the lawsuit was more over the mormon church not liking the Tanner's using its own materials against the mormon church. But, there is something about things the mormon church would perfer to keep secret.

 

[Sherman]

It doesn't bother you that you don't know where your 10% tithe goes? You don't suspect any illegal uses of the huge amount of cash the mormon church rakes in? Don't you care about accountability? Or is this just one more case of "the prophet, (profit) says everything is kosher, so that's all I need?"

And I can tell from your response that what calgal stated is true. I expected a denial of calgal's statement, not the "it's none of your business" response.

There seems to be quite a few assumptions here. The church does have a system of checks and balances and accountability. They follow generally accepted standards for auditing and are audited by an independant CPA firm. Now granted these checks and balances may not meet your standards, but don't just assume that because you don't know, that no accountability exists.

Is there oppertunity for fraud and deception, sure. But it is dealt with. One can be excommunicated, or charged criminally for mishandling tithing (church) funds.

I personally look at paying my tithing as "giving back" to God a portion of what I have been given. What He does with the tithing to build His kingdom, is not for me to be "bothered" by.

Sherman

 

[Serapha]

Doc: I'm glad that you avoid using the Tanners and Mr. Decker. I am curious about what specifically you find outdated at Jeff Lindsay's website. Perhaps we can discuss that here as this seems to be a generic thread about Mormonism.


~

Hi there!




For example:

Quoted from your referenced site:


Further support for the name "Aha" comes from a recent discovery reported in Journal of Book of Mormon Studies, Vol. 8, No. 2, 1999, p. 83. The May/June 1999 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review (pp. 42-43) has an article by P. Kyle McCarter, Jr. of Johns Hopkins University that reports the discovery of three bronze arrowheads from the eleventh century B.C. bearing Hebrew inscriptions, one of which was inscribed with a steel instrument (yes, critics, steel as in use there long before Laban got his steel sword!), according to Dr. R. Thomas Chase of the Freer Gallery of Art, a division of the Smithsonian Institution and an authority on ancient bronze artifacts. He discovered that "the inscription had been incised with a steel [emphasized in the original] engraving tool." The name "Aha" that occurs in one of the inscriptions, which McCarter translates as "The arrowhead of 'Aha' son of 'Ashtart.'" This appears to be the same as the name mentioned in the Book of Mormon in Alma 16:5, where we read of two sons of Zoram, chief captain of the Nephite army, whose names were Lehi and Aha. Thus we have evidence authenticating another ancient Hebrew name found in the Book of Mormon but not the Bible.




I found it interesting in searching the names of Aha and Ashtart which were cited and to find that they are the names of gods/goddesses, and not Hebrew names as was cited in the LDS reference materials.Therefore, note that Mr. Linsay identifies the names from the book of mormon as Hebrew, when in fact, they are not.

P. Kyle McCarter, the author of the BAR article, "Over the Transom: Thre More Arrowheads", May/June 1999, simply cites the inscription as "archaic text" (Page 42, column 2, first paragraph). Jeff Linsay has taken the liberty of translating "archaic text" to be "Hebrew". Furthermore, the translation of text is not attributed to P. Kyle McCarter, but to a previous publication by Robrt Deutsch and Michael Heltzer, Forty New Ancient West Semitic Inscriptions (Tel Aviv: Archaeological Center, 1994)


I would identify that while West Semitic is Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, from the book's descriptive title, the names of "Aha" and "Ashtart" are more likely to be the names of Egyptian gods/goddesses.

AHA(granmother): River spirit. The guardian of apotheosis of rivers

Ashtart: Canaanite version of Ishtar; fertility goddess, (Egyptian goddess)



Do you need more examples of Mr. Linsay's work?


~malaka~

 

[Serapha]

There seems to be quite a few assumptions here. The church does have a system of checks and balances and accountability. They follow generally accepted standards for auditing and are audited by an independant CPA firm. Now granted these checks and balances may not meet your standards, but don't just assume that because you don't know, that no accountability exists.

Is there oppertunity for fraud and deception, sure. But it is dealt with. One can be excommunicated, or charged criminally for mishandling tithing (church) funds.

I personally look at paying my tithing as "giving back" to God a portion of what I have been given. What He does with the tithing to build His kingdom, is not for me to be "bothered" by.

Sherman

Hi there!



One of the difficulties with paying tithe in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that if their tithe is not paid, then they are denied the same priviledges extended to other members who have paid a full tithe.

Obviously, there are many people in the LDS who are "bothered by" the lack of income.


~malaka~

 

[calgal]

Hi there!



One of the difficulties with paying tithe in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that if their tithe is not paid, then they are denied the same priviledges extended to other members who have paid a full tithe.

Obviously, there are many people in the LDS who are "bothered by" the lack of income.


~malaka~

And not having access to financial information is not a sign of a honest or healthy organization.