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To the point Trinity

Discussion in 'Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology' started by Gerry, May 3, 2002.

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  1. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    The Father is God:

    John 6:44: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    Romans 1:7: “To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
    I Peter 1:2: “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”

    The Son is God:

    Isaiah 9:6; “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

    John 1:1; “ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    John 20:28; “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.”

    Titus 2:13; “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”
    Hebrews 1:8: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”

    The Spirit is God:

    Acts 5:3,4: “But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? {to lie to: or, to deceive} Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God."

    Hebrews 9:14: “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
     
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  2. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +171
    Protestant
    Single
    i always get confused with the Trinity. People explain it as the example of water: vapour, ice, liquid.
    But howcome God calls Jesus the son of God?
    but then it's God in three forms..
     
  3. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "But howcome God calls Jesus the son of God?
    "

    Its a title of authority, read Pslams 2.
     
  4. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    THE "ONLY TRUE GOD" IS THE FATHER ONLY

    John 17:3
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    Revelation 21:22
    And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    1 Corinthians 11:3
    But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

    Ephesians 4:6
    One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    1 Timothy 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    2 Corinthians 1:3
    Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

    1 Corinthians 15:24-28
    Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    {25} For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    {26} The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    {27} For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    {28} And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    2 Thessalonians 2:16
    Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

    REFERENCES TO FATHER & SON BUT NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT AS A *THIRD* PERSON

    2 John 1:3
    Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

    1 Timothy 5:21
    I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

    Titus 1:4
    To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

    Ephesians 1:2
    Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Colossians 1:2
    To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  5. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Yes 2002Christian there is ONLY ONE GOD! Isn't it amazing how our God is so powerful He can manifest Himself in three different ways. Isn't it amazing how that Jesus Christ is Himself, the creator God we read of in Genesis, and the one who manifested Himself to Moses in the burning bush. Jesus, Himself, said I and my father are ONE. And it is for sure they are ONE in Spirit as well.

    John 10:30: "I and my Father are one." KJV

    1 John 5:8: "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

    Thanks for posting your agreement with mine.
    Psalms 133:1: "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"
     
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Isaiah 9:6; “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

    Have you ever really looked at this scripture BlessedOne?
    The son shall be called the everlasting Father? WOW! Yes it can be confusing if we try to bring God down on our level so we can understand him. But the Word is very clear.

    The "Oneness" people can qupte scripture all day and so can I. That is why we are "Commanded" in II Timothy 2:15,16: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
     
  7. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Gery,

    I was thinking of those verses in II Timothy also as I was reading the above posts. You put into words in minutes what was going to take me an hour. God bless you brother, I am happy to see someone so well versed on here.

    Zach
     
  8. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    What about Isaiah 9:6, where the Son of God is called the Father?

    This verse is very interesting, and is often used to prove that Christ is the Father in the trinity. Yet when we take a closer look at the verse we find that this verse in no way supports a trinity doctrine. “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting 5703 [for ever (of future time)&] Father, The Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6) Is Christ the Father? If so, how can He be the Son? And if He is both Father and Son, how can there be a trinity, for a trinity is three individuals. This verse is obviously not supporting of a trinity doctrine.

    Jesus is referred to as a Father. A Father of whom? Of the children which His Father gave Him. Referring to Christ, Paul stated, “And again, I will put my trust in Him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.” (Hebrews 2:13)

    In Isaiah 9:6, Christ is called everlasting, which is appropriate, since He will last forever. He is called Father, not of Himself, but of the children which God has given Him.

    Notice also that Isaiah 9:6 says that “His name shall be called… The mighty God”. Some may use this phrase to mean that Christ is the supreme God. This would be a good argument if the verse had referred to Christ as the Almighty God, however it uses the term mighty God. We read of mighty men, but never of Almighty men. It certainly is appropriate to refer to the Son as mighty, for He is powerful. It is also appropriate to refer to Him as God, for the Almighty God Himself refers to His Son as God in Hebrews 1:8, 9. Therefore the terms everlasting Father and the mighty God can rightly apply to the Son of God.
     
  9. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    But doesn’t the Bible say that God and Christ are one?

    Yes. But in the same way it says that Christians should be one. Christians do not become one human. Neither do the Father and His Son become one God. It simply means that They are in unity as we are to be in unity.

    That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one. (John 17:21-23)
     
  10. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    I really do appreciate your comments 2002Christian. But I am afraid that no matter how you try to explain God, you will always fail. There is still the difference between the Infinite and the finite. Remember Christianity is a FAITH based religion. It is not based on human logic, and we do err when we seek scriptures to support our finite thinking.

    As I said before we could throw scriptures back and forth all day but God said we are to "rightly divide" the Word of Truth. That requires earnest study and sincere prayer.

    I might also add that when we REALLY study, which requires some time in the original languages, we find our understanding broadened considerably.

    A case in point concerning the original languages: I find it interesting to note that in Gen. 1:3 the name, Elohim is a PLURAL name! Also see Gen. 1:26, Gen.3:22, Gen.11:7, Ecclesiastes 12:1, Isaiah 54:5, Isaiah 6:8, Isaiah 48:16, Isaiah 63:9,10.

    Also for a conversation between the Father and the Son see Psalms 2:1-7. See also Psalm 45:6-8.

    This kind of study helps me imeasurably in my understanding. God bless you 2002Christian and may He guide us all in our study of His Word.
     
  11. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Thanks Coastie! I am always delighted to see those who love God and love His word. I often regret that there are so many cares in the world today, that we do not have more time just to crawl in there and soak! What a blessing is each moment in His Word.

    By the written Word that we must measure every aspect of our lives, and it is in the Living Word, that “we live and move and have our being.” Acts 17:28
     
  12. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    Oh, but your belief is right and scriptural. :sigh:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    *Mod hat on*

    Hey I understand that this is a topic we could all get passionate about, but let's try and be polite here. No reason to ruin a good debate, right?
    :)
    *Mod hat off*

    Coastie
     
  14. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

    +164
    Baptist
    2002 Christian
    When we are born again...we are in the image of God.
    The body, the soul and the spirit.
    Can you tell me how this is so? Also where is The Fathers body if we are created in his image??
    GEL
     
  15. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    1 Corinthians 2:11
    For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    The Spirit of God is not a Person separate and distinct from the Person of God (the Father), unless you believe that your spirit is a person separate and distinct from the person that is you. But you don't believe that do you, GEL? Can you tell me how this is so? Why is it that the Spirit of God knows the things of God, but the Father doesn't? Why is it that the Spirit of God knows the things of God, but the Son doesn't?


    Luke 10, NASB
    22 "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

    Why doesn't the "Third Person of the Godhead" know these things? Can you tell me how this is so?

    Who says the image of God is defined by "body, the soul and the spirit?"
     
  16. GreenEyedLady

    GreenEyedLady My little Dinky Doo

    +164
    Baptist
    Exactly HOW would you define the image of GOD???
    He is way more than a spirit.
    GEL
     
  17. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    "Exactly HOW would you define the image of GOD???"
    ---------------------------------

    II Cor 4:4. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Col.1:15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

    Heb.1:3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

    Basicaly, the way I see, God doesn't have an image, He is invisible. If you want to know what God looks like then you will have to look at Jesus. He is God in the flesh. Anytime God was seen in the OT, IMO, it was his image that was seen and His image is that of Jesus. Anytime God was seen on the throne in the OT, it was Jesus glorified who was seen, even though he was not on the throne, it was his image that was shown.
     
  18. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Basicaly, the way I see, God doesn't have an image, He is invisible. If you want to know what God looks like then you will have to look at Jesus. "

    Hmm..aren't we made in the image of God?
     
  19. OntheRock

    OntheRock Member

    115
    +2
    Sorry, God is invisible. We were created in the image of Jesus, who is the image of God. God doesn't have an image, and in the beginning before creation he already had a plan for man and the salvation of man, Jesus, and created man after the plan, Jesus, who is God in the flesh.
     
  20. 2002 Christian

    2002 Christian Member

    402
    +0
    If God is invisible, and we are made in His image, wouldn't we be invisible, too, if we have a certain definition of image?

    I think we are missing the point about what "the image of God" really means.

    Does anyone have a reply to my former post?
     
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