To Seem, Rather Than To Be? (Trans Ideology)

[didactics]

I had a particular question. Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex? I mean, sometimes I hear the phrase thrown around, that trans women are women. I don’t have to be a biologist to know that’s insane—trans women don’t have eggs. Trans women don’t magically start menstruating. Or who knows, maybe a progressive would fire back, does a woman need to menstruate to be a woman? And then I suppose I would have to argue based on what is normative, namely that women usually menstruate, but trans women never have eggs.


So what I’m getting at is, just how dedicated are progressives to this gender theory? Is it irrelevant to state that what is normal of male and female behavior is obvious, if perhaps they believe that what is normal now may not always be normal—meaning that humans may evolve into something different? Or, maybe progressive minded people know that their theory is senseless, except maybe not all, and they would rather use their ideas to divide and conquer. But then again that just sounds conspiratorial.


For example, I watched a video of a trans woman explaining that he thought the concept of male and femaleness really was a concept that the colonizers came up with. I can’t tell you how absurd that is. I guess there’s no point in defining humans as male and female. But that’s like saying that human procreation is irrelevant, and that’s why we don’t need terms like male and female. This really gets into dangerous territory because it’s an attempt to play God—the idea that we don’t have to have limits based on our gender.


It’s also an attack on God’s very good design, that in the beginning he made them male and female. Even Jesus affirmed this (see Mt 19:4).

 

[Tanj]

I had a particular question. Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex?

Opposite gender, not sex.

trans women don’t have eggs.

Neither do any of my friends that have had full hysterectomies.

does a woman need to menstruate to be a woman?

So we'll add "menopause" to the list of well known things you have never heard of.

So what I’m getting at is

That for religious reasons you find the concept of "trans" icky and repulsive and thought you'd share that revulsion with us, bypassing the whole "hate the sin not the sinner" concept and going straight to "hate the sinner". Many of the people on this site agree with you, so I think you'll fit right in.

 

[jacks]

Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex?

I don't believe they really think that they are the opposite sex. They feel that their "gender" is not the same as their sex. Sex is a physical thing and gender is more of a social thing. HERE Though they would like to be treated as if they are actually of a different sex.

 

[SkyWriting]

I had a particular question. Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex?

I don't know what people believe about their appearance. But I do know it's not a uniform answer.

 

[PloverWing]

Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex?

The intent is to bring one's body more closely into alignment with one's internal sense of gender. This can be done through fairly superficial changes -- such as clothing or hair style -- or through hormones, or through surgery, or a combination of these.

 

[zippy2006]

Opposite gender, not sex.

No, not exclusively. For example:

The word transgender can also be used in conjunction with other labels to indicate the gender or sex someone knows themselves to be.

For example, someone can identify as a transgender man, a transgender woman, or a transgender nonbinary person.

[...]

As a rule of thumb, the term transgender provides information about the extent to which someone identifies with the sex they were assigned at birth.

-Is There a Difference Between Being Transgender and Transsexual?
​

Note the emphasis on "sex assigned at birth," as well as the idea that secondary labels can be used "to indicate the gender or sex someone knows (sic) themselves to be" (emphasis mine). The transgender person is not someone who does not identify with their sex, but rather someone who does not identify with the sex that happened to be assigned to them at birth. This is why parts of the trans movement are pushing to have no sex assigned at birth.

Obviously this movement is irrational and unscientific, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[Tanj]

No, not exclusively. For example:

The word transgender can also be used in conjunction with other labels to indicate the gender or sex someone knows themselves to be.

For example, someone can identify as a transgender man, a transgender woman, or a transgender nonbinary person.

[...]

As a rule of thumb, the term transgender provides information about the extent to which someone identifies with the sex they were assigned at birth.

-Is There a Difference Between Being Transgender and Transsexual?
​

Note the emphasis on "sex assigned at birth," as well as the idea that secondary labels can be used "to indicate the gender or sex someone knows (sic) themselves to be" (emphasis mine).

Because it's messy semantically, and the two terms can be used interchangeably. It thus behooves us to use them in a more precise manner to avoid really silly discussions that revolve around what Webster's dictionary says, or, as the OP did, defining women entirely as egg carriers

 

[com7fy8]

Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex?

I would need to get to know each person, so I could understand what each one really believes and thinks he or she is doing.

In general > while a child is immature, there is no telling what he or she might think.

So, I do not think it is wise for an immature person to permanently change his or her body in ways so the person later as a mature person will not be able to have children. I mean, let's say the child wants to get more attention; so the child has his or her legs amputated, in order to get more attention. This might work for some time, but it can make an unnecessary problem for what the person as a more mature person could do, later. And if the parents change the child permanently, this is not letting the child have an opportunity to make one's choice after he or she is mature enough to make the best choice.

Why would an immature child want to change from being a girl to a boy, or a boy to a girl? For one thing, it could be because the child simply is immature. And there can be parents who are still not developed. So, is their choice making driven by wisdom and maturity in how to relate, or by ongoing immaturity? Why would they want their children to become incapable of having children? Population control??

I get how ones now are promoting dog adoption, rather than leaving poor doggies in the pound while they buy new doggies. May be ones have decided people should adopt the children already without parents, instead of having more children. I suppose certain ones might have this reasoning, but I would not try to speak for everybody.

But I have a theory > as a little boy I can see how girls get attention that I am not getting. Or, as a girl I see how boys are getting attention I am not getting. Either way, I might feel like I'm missing something, and suppose I need to change so I get what the other gender is getting.

But it might be sort of like being a carpenter and seeing how it can be good to be an automotive mechanic. If I get rid of my tools for carpentry, and do not keep developing my skills for using what I do have . . . how would you like me to try to work on your car? At least, with this example, I have some chance of doing something, in auto mechanics.

But a transgender person can't pick up new tools, right?

And having intimacy with feelings of pleasure is not the same as being intimate with another person in
God's love. Learning how to love in a close relationship is more interesting, challenging, and educational And you can learn how to love, in whichever body you start with. And in case others do not know how to love you, changing your body can't help them.

So, what really is each one trying to do?

 

[Velaut]

I mean, let's say the child wants to get more attention; so the child has his or her legs amputated, in order to get more attention.

Wow!

Why would an immature child want to change from being a girl to a boy, or a boy to a girl? For one thing, it could be because the child simply is immature. And there can be parents who are still not developed. So, is their choice making driven by wisdom and maturity in how to relate, or by ongoing immaturity? Why would they want their children to become incapable of having children? Population control??

I get how ones now are promoting dog adoption, rather than leaving poor doggies in the pound while they buy new doggies. May be ones have decided people should adopt the children already without parents, instead of having more children. I suppose certain ones might have this reasoning, but I would not try to speak for everybody.

But I have a theory > as a little boy I can see how girls get attention that I am not getting. Or, as a girl I see how boys are getting attention I am not getting. Either way, I might feel like I'm missing something, and suppose I need to change so I get what the other gender is getting.

You have just invented a number of fantasy reasons and then showed you don't like them. So you critique your own projections. I don't see the point.

Let's turn your example around. Suppose a kid has only 1 leg and wants to walk like other kids. So the kid wants a prosthetic. And the parents provide for the prosthetic. Is that an immature kid?

 

[Velaut]

But it might be sort of like being a carpenter and seeing how it can be good to be an automotive mechanic. If I get rid of my tools for carpentry, and do not keep developing my skills for using what I do have . . . how would you like me to try to work on your car? At least, with this example, I have some chance of doing something, in auto mechanics.

So if you take your car to a garage, do you ask the mechanic if he had been working as a carpenter before? No of course not; you'll be happy if your car gets fixed.

 

[com7fy8]

Suppose a kid has only 1 leg and wants to walk like other kids. So the kid wants a prosthetic. And the parents provide for the prosthetic. Is that an immature kid?

It's an interest that an immature or a mature person would want.

But if an immature boy or girl . . . or adult immature . . . has problems with being male or female . . . why really is this so? And would it be wise for an immature person to permanently destroy equipment which he or she later as a mature and stable person could use to have children?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

So what I’m getting at is, just how dedicated are progressives to this gender theory?

Catelyn Jenner won't like being labeled a progressive.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I don't believe they really think that they are the opposite sex. They feel that their "gender" is not the same as their sex. Sex is a physical thing and gender is more of a social thing. HERE Though they would like to be treated as if they are actually of a different sex.

"Gender" is a combination of physical, psychological, and social constructs -- and it has always meant different things in different times and cultures.

Our current time and culture (allegedly) praises personal liberty -- and what is more personally liberating than self-determination?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Catelyn Jenner won't like being labeled a progressive.

And most progressives probably won't like including her...

... but at least they'll refer to her as her.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Wow!

You have just invented a number of fantasy reasons and then showed you don't like them. So you critique your own projections. I don't see the point.

I think the point is that some people are better equipped to critique their own fantasies than reality.

If so, then the point came through loud and clear.

 

[didactics]

Let’s call it what it is and be fair to his argument. It’s called an analogy. If you want clarification, the appropriate thing to do is just ask.

 

[didactics]

The only reason I was reducing womanhood to egg carrier is because to progressives (and confused minded conservatives for that matter, like Caitlyn Jenner), that’s the one thing they can’t do anything about—a biological man (trans woman) can never mimic every behavioral characteristic. They may practice talking in a softer tone or practice their gait, but it’s about all they can do.
Another thing, gender reassignment surgery can’t even come close if we’re just considering differences in bone structure. You might have aesthetic differences in the resulting surgical procedures, like giving the appearance of breasts, but guess what? They will never lactate. I could go on and on if I were a biologist. And sure, I left out older women when making my point, but in a way I didn’t. While older women go through menopause, there was a period in their life when they menstruated to get to that stage in life.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The only reason I was reducing womanhood to egg carrier is because to progressives (and confused minded conservatives for that matter, like Caitlyn Jenner), that’s the one thing they can’t do anything about—a biological man (trans woman) can never mimic every behavioral characteristic.

ok... So what, though?

It takes more than a single behavioral characteristic to define someone.

They may practice talking in a softer tone or practice their gait, but it’s about all they can do.

Again... so what?

Plus, just because they can't do it now doesn't mean they will never be able to... Medical science is always moving forward, even if politics takes the occasional step backwards.

Another thing, gender reassignment surgery can’t even come close if we’re just considering differences in bone structure. You might have aesthetic differences in the resulting surgical procedures, like giving the appearance of breasts, but guess what? They will never lactate.

Once again... so what?

I've encountered a few sets of breasts in my time ( ) and none of them ever lactated... Kind of preferred them that way, actually.

I could go on and on if I were a biologist.

Oh, you've done just fine going on and on as it is...

And sure, I left out older women when making my point, but in a way I didn’t. While older women go through menopause, there was a period in their life when they menstruated to get to that stage in life.

And is menstruation that which defines womanhood?

 

[didactics]

Do you have to see a woman lactate to know that women can lactate? It’s just common knowledge that after pregnancy, a woman can typically nurse her newborn.

 

[didactics]

Again... so what?

Plus, just because they can't do it now doesn't mean they will never be able to... Medical science is always moving forward, even if politics takes the occasional step backwards.

If you will, could you please provide a source for that? I genuinely want to know. Are you inferring that it could be possible for trans women (biological men), through emerging tech, to menstruate? Not only that, but are you expecting that trans women could potentially bear a child that passes on his, if you will, mitochondrial DNA?