To Seem, Rather Than To Be? (Trans Ideology)

[TLK Valentine]

If you will, could you please provide a source for that? I genuinely want to know. Are you inferring that it could be possible for trans women (biological men), through emerging tech, to menstruate? Not only that, but are you expecting that trans women could potentially bear a child that passes on his, if you will, mitochondrial DNA?

First of all, you're asking for a source for something that hasn't happened yet -- am I reading that right?

Second, "Not only that, but are you expecting that trans women could potentially bear a child that passes on his, if you will, mitochondrial DNA?"

That would be her mitochondrial DNA...

And third, sure, why not? Science has accomplished things that would've been considered impossible a couple of generations ago...

 

[TLK Valentine]

Do you have to see a woman lactate to know that women can lactate? It’s just common knowledge that after pregnancy, a woman can typically nurse her newborn.

...and some can't.

How pathetic would it be if people considered that to be a defining criteria for "womanhood"?

 

[didactics]

And third, sure, why not? Science has accomplished things that would've been considered impossible a couple of generations ago...

Why would it be a scientific achievement for a biological man to give birth?

...and some can't.

How pathetic would it be if people considered that to be a defining criteria for "womanhood"?

When I make general statements like, women can typically breastfeed after giving birth, I mean: most of the time. You’re insisting that some can’t, suggesting what? Is it all just coincidence that women are designed to adequately nurse infants without the use of any supplement?

 

[Tanj]

The only reason I was reducing womanhood to egg carrier

Yeah, what a great reason. Well done.

I could go on and on if I were a biologist.

I am a biologist. Please don't.

And sure, I left out older women when making my point

And younger women and women with various diseases

but in a way I didn’t. While older women go through menopause, there was a period in their life when they menstruated to get to that stage in life.

And when girls undergo hysterectomies prior to menarche, or for various other reasons never do menstruate, what about them?

Or are bleeding egg carriers the definitive description?

Has to be the most sexist, misogynistic opinion I have ever seen.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Why would it be a scientific achievement for a biological man to give birth?

Why wouldn't it be?

When I make general statements like, women can typically breastfeed after giving birth, I mean: most of the time. You’re insisting that some can’t, suggesting what?

suggesting that the ability to breastfeed is obviously not a requirement to be a "woman."
I thought I was making that clear.

Is it all just coincidence that women are designed to adequately nurse infants without the use of any supplement?

Clearly not all of them are so adequately designed -- and yet, the designer's failure doesn't make them any less "women."

 

[TLK Valentine]

Has to be the most sexist, misogynistic opinion I have ever seen.

I suspect we ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[Tanj]

I suspect we ain't seen nothing yet.

...on the march to Gilead.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I had a particular question. Do trans people really believe that by transitioning, that they become the opposite sex?

I don't know what all people believe.

I assume that some people think that a transition will fulfill them? Make something right that has gone horribly wrong??

I think you've got a really important question here. Which is to look at the person and try to understand what is going on within them.

I'm usually careful about getting into this subject because I think sometimes people will rip a trans person apart to prove their point. I especially loath watching christians do this.

Gender, abortion and homosexuality seem to be a playground for egomaniac-christians. The subjects seem to provide somewhere they can stand up and tell everyone how right they are about everything and how wrong and stupid everyone else is. haha
It's actually rather amusing, in an endearing way - except for the people they are trampling over.

I think christians should treat people well (as many already do).
In my opinion, treating people well goes further for God than just telling them what you think (haha Ironically I'm now posting what I think).
Treating people well is way better than giving them the answer to all their questions.

 

[TLK Valentine]

...on the march to Gilead.

Which goes to show how serious the transgender are about their changes... seeing how our society treats women, they still want to be one...

 

[ottawak]

Do you have to see a woman lactate to know that women can lactate? It’s just common knowledge that after pregnancy, a woman can typically nurse her newborn.

Men can also lactate.

 

[comana]

The only reason I was reducing womanhood to egg carrier is because to progressives (and confused minded conservatives for that matter, like Caitlyn Jenner), that’s the one thing they can’t do anything about—a biological man (trans woman) can never mimic every behavioral characteristic. They may practice talking in a softer tone or practice their gait, but it’s about all they can do.
Another thing, gender reassignment surgery can’t even come close if we’re just considering differences in bone structure. You might have aesthetic differences in the resulting surgical procedures, like giving the appearance of breasts, but guess what? They will never lactate. I could go on and on if I were a biologist. And sure, I left out older women when making my point, but in a way I didn’t. While older women go through menopause, there was a period in their life when they menstruated to get to that stage in life.

Why is any of this important? Trans persons surely know their biological limitations in regards to the gender they identify as. What is the harm in just letting a trans woman call herself a woman or a trans man call himself a man?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Why is any of this important? Trans persons surely know their biological limitations in regards to the gender they identify as. What is the harm in just letting a trans woman call herself a woman or a trans man call himself a man?

It has less to do with gender and mostly to do with authority... if they get to define themselves, then the powers-that-be lose that power...

And if the authorities were to lose authority, all the bootlicking would have been for nothing.

 

[didactics]

And younger women and women with various disease

And when girls undergo hysterectomies prior to menarche, or for various other reasons never do menstruate, what about them?

So let me see if I’m getting this straight. My truth claim is that most women can menstruate. But maybe you’re thinking that’s not accurate because if you include those who have menopause and those who have complications, the population of those who can and those who can’t could be 50/50.

So let’s say: some women menstruate. A statement like that does not discount that older women don’t, or some women have complications. Neither does it exclude that teenage girls do.

I don’t want you to miss the point I’m making: while it is true that some women menstruate, men never do. If you will, I’m asking, do you think biological men can become biological women? And if so, how?

 

[muichimotsu]

No, not exclusively. For example:

The word transgender can also be used in conjunction with other labels to indicate the gender or sex someone knows themselves to be.

For example, someone can identify as a transgender man, a transgender woman, or a transgender nonbinary person.

[...]

As a rule of thumb, the term transgender provides information about the extent to which someone identifies with the sex they were assigned at birth.

-Is There a Difference Between Being Transgender and Transsexual?
​

Note the emphasis on "sex assigned at birth," as well as the idea that secondary labels can be used "to indicate the gender or sex someone knows (sic) themselves to be" (emphasis mine). The transgender person is not someone who does not identify with their sex, but rather someone who does not identify with the sex that happened to be assigned to them at birth. This is why parts of the trans movement are pushing to have no sex assigned at birth.

Obviously this movement is irrational and unscientific, and it's only going to get worse.

Problem is you're conflating sex and gender, which shows you're only half paying attention to the discussion to fit your essentialist reductive narrative where you don't have to consider something that's been a thing for centuries: that gender doesn't refer to genitals except in a far more modern consideration where prudish Victorians didn't want to even insinuate intercourse or discussion about genitals

So they just used gender as a synonym when I seriously doubt that had much precedence before with societies that at least were somewhat more sex positive even if they were also misogynist and patriarchal as all get out.

Acknowledging your sex is not the same as equating that with your gender identity, because I'm 99% sure my trans man friend doesn't deny they are biologically female, but their decision to take hormones and present as masculine and ask that they be referred to with masculine pronouns is not an indication of mental instability, nor should it be claimed as the cause for depression they mentioned to me.

Biological sex assignment and personal gender identity can happen to intersect, of course; I don't see a conflict between my male sex and my identity as a man, but that doesn't follow for everyone, nor should it immediately be condemned as irrational because they don't fit a norm that is not as "traditional" as we've been taught it is in a context where religious dominance of education was the norm for centuries in American history.

Is it any shock that we'd then have those systemic norms about how women ought to behave, how we ought to regard sexual minorities, etc when the main source of social norms via education was a group that had no issue with treating women as chattel and twisted themselves into knots making apologies for "Biblical" slavery? And you call LGBTQ as a community irrational? Forgive me if I have to catch my breath from laughing hysterically at the cognitive dissonance

 

[didactics]

And I shouldn’t have agreed with you that I am reducing women to egg carrier. I just meant that I’m zeroing in on this one characteristic of women, for the sake of argumentation. Again, a characteristic which is generally true of women. That doesn’t mean that if they don’t have this behavior, that they are not women. The point is that what is generally true of women, when it comes to biological distinctives, that’s never true of men.

 

[muichimotsu]

Wow!

You have just invented a number of fantasy reasons and then showed you don't like them. So you critique your own projections. I don't see the point.

Let's turn your example around. Suppose a kid has only 1 leg and wants to walk like other kids. So the kid wants a prosthetic. And the parents provide for the prosthetic. Is that an immature kid?

It's almost like we still need major progress in the world with internalized and implicit ableism

 

[muichimotsu]

Do you have to see a woman lactate to know that women can lactate? It’s just common knowledge that after pregnancy, a woman can typically nurse her newborn.

Pretty sure men can lactate, hormonally speaking it's not impossible and I'm NOT a biologist and admit as such versus speaking as if some vague knowledge makes me smarter than I actually am. You know what we call that? Dunning Kruger effect!

 

[muichimotsu]

Yeah, what a great reason. Well done.



I am a biologist. Please don't.



And younger women and women with various diseases



And when girls undergo hysterectomies prior to menarche, or for various other reasons never do menstruate, what about them?

Or are bleeding egg carriers the definitive description?

Has to be the most sexist, misogynistic opinion I have ever seen.

And there's tubal ligation, which I had to remind myself of the specific term because I'm a man who still has misogynistic tendencies I need to work out, plus my privileged status where I can just walk around at midnight with no concern of being sexually assaulted

 

[muichimotsu]

Why is any of this important? Trans persons surely know their biological limitations in regards to the gender they identify as. What is the harm in just letting a trans woman call herself a woman or a trans man call himself a man?

It means that someone has to admit their deep seated tradition is wrong and that is something a certain subset cannot abide because of authoritarian tendencies they REALLY need to confront. Because if they don't, they can get radicalized to crypto fascism and go down that rabbit hole

 

[didactics]

Excuse me for my misstep, I mean: men don't have milk ducts. That much I understand-- so there is no purpose in attempting chest-feeding. That would be irresponsible. So no, I'm not trying to effect more knowledge than I poses.