To Seem, Rather Than To Be? (Trans Ideology)

[Kylie]

However, I've seen trans people describe their decision as the culmination of experiences that caused them to feel that way, rather than having had a medical hormone evaluation.

If it's merely a matter of hormone imbalance, why not take the same kind of hormone therapy regimen that people take for other issues?

If it was a hormone during a particular developmental stage, then taking that hormone later in life might not have the same effect.

 

[MehGuy]

I wouldn’t say disgust. Although man is responsible for the fall, God’s punishment is to be instructive. God set limits on us by making us age and die. God called what he created very good and that includes male and female during creation week.

It might not be disgust.

Now I could always be wrong on this, maybe it could happen that a male ends up with a brain that’s almost like a female. I think it would take careful analysis of specialist(s) to recognize distinction from an actual female brain and one that’s almost like it.

Hey, it's fine. Nice to see you being opened minded. As I said before, I'm not set in stone about these issues myself. I just happen to believe there is a concept of gender that's evolved. No matter how fickle it might be from philosophical scrutiny.

As far as "male" and "female" brains, they're probably 99% the same with small statistical differences. The experiences of being a man or a woman is probably not very different. When you talk about certain social interactions, like romance, sexuality and some platonic dynamics the differences are probably larger, but overall, I don't think there is some static ever presence of feeling like a "man" or a "woman".

 

[RDKirk]

If it was a hormone during a particular developmental stage, then taking that hormone later in life might not have the same effect.

Whether the treatment would have transitional effects later in life or not, if the problem is hormonal, an examination would prove it to be hormonal. That's a pathology that can be positively determined, not something to be guessed about.

 

[RDKirk]

As far as "male" and "female" brains, they're probably 99% the same with small statistical differences. The experiences of being a man or a woman is probably not very different. When you talk about certain social interactions, like romance, sexuality and some platonic dynamics the differences are probably larger, but overall, I don't think there is some static ever presence of feeling like a "man" or a "woman".

Well, heck, our DNA is 99% the same as a chimpanzee's, too, but that one percent appears to make a huge difference.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I wouldn't say that. I don't think trans people are trans because of some experience they had. It could be something like some hormone was produced in sufficient quantities, that kind of thing. Or their bodies aren't sufficiently receptive to a hormone.

Genetics then. I don't agree with standpoint epistemology and the idea that your opinion on a topic isn't relevant if you don't belong to the group the topic is about....

It's a shallow subversive tactic for dismissing the views of anyone "out-group" and I think your views can be valuable regardless of your group affiliations. The reason is fairly simple....

Anyone can be right or wrong about anything.

Edit- I only asked because it occurred to me that transgender people aren't trying to change their gender....they're trying to change their sex (at least the appearance of their sex).

 

[Kylie]

Genetics then. I don't agree with standpoint epistemology and the idea that your opinion on a topic isn't relevant if you don't belong to the group the topic is about....

However, if the topic is a subjective experience, then surely those who have experienced it are in a better position to talk about it than those who haven't.

 

[didactics]

Well, heck, our DNA is 99% the same as a chimpanzee's, too, but that one percent appears to make a huge difference.

I have a quote from Answers in Genesis. An article called, A Fresh Look at Human-Chimp DNA Similarity



“The number has been dropping in some circles recently, but is still on the order of 95+%. There is inherent bias in these calculations because significant lengths of DNA that are quite different between the two species are omitted from the results. A very simplified comparison would be comparing blue jeans (pardon the pun) with cut-off jeans…In a similar way, gaps or missing portions (like the missing legs on the cut-off jeans) and regulatory portions (like the fabric) from one are typically ignored, and only gene-rich segments of DNA are analyzed (like pockets, buttons, and rivets). Taking all those things into account, in 2012 creationist scientists Drs. Tomkins and Bergman came up with an overall similarity of around 81%—quite a difference!”



But you still make a good point because I think it’s an ongoing study (and the small differences matter).

 

[Moral Orel]

Here's why this is a bad analogy....

"Things that make up an atom" is a pretty exclusive category.

A collection can have a lot of components, or just a few components. A collection can have rigid categories, or variable categories. Your distinction is irrelevant.

I gave you a term that denotes a collection of things, you replied, "But the components already have names". Your objection is a non-sequitur.

The word "let" here makes it sound like a suggestion instead of a description of what categorically belongs under the term "gender identity". I assumed it was a suggestion

It is a suggestion because we're talking about picking a definition for a word.

because so far....you make it sound like anything could be considered under the category of gender identity. This isn't a useful category for describing anything if that's the case.

It's useful because it segregates all the stuff that doesn't matter from all the stuff that actually might in some contexts.

The reason why I wanted to avoid these roles and norms is because they can be part of either sex's identity and wouldn't require any medical or social transitioning.

Uh-huh....

In other words, if little 6yo Jimmy likes the color pink and plays with dolls....he can do those things as a boy.

Now you're starting to get it. You don't think most people agree though, do you? Do you think it's only woke folk that connect a fondness for pink and dolls with biological sex?

 

[didactics]

Now you're starting to get it. You don't think most people agree though, do you? Do you think it's only woke folk that connect a fondness for pink and dolls with biological sex?

There isn’t anything inherently wrong with liking the color pink. What’s not okay is to then get a pink dress for a boy. Or if a boy likes dolls it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to get him a doll.

 

[RDKirk]

There isn’t anything inherently wrong with liking the color pink. What’s not okay is to then get a pink dress for a boy. Or if a boy likes dolls it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to get him a doll.

I've been told that liking boy bands is an indicator that a male is really gay, or possibly trans.

I'm shocked to learn that about myself, after 70 years. I kinda liked Backstreet Boys. I still listen to a couple of their songs. My son does, too. He's also shocked to learn that about himself.

 

[Paulos23]

There isn’t anything inherently wrong with liking the color pink. What’s not okay is to then get a pink dress for a boy. Or if a boy likes dolls it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to get him a doll.

But what if the boy likes a pink dress to wear in the summer because it is cool.

If the like what they like and it doesn't harm anything, get them the doll or the dress. What is the big deal?

 

[didactics]

But what if the boy likes a pink dress to wear in the summer because it is cool.

If the like what they like and it doesn't harm anything, get them the doll or the dress. What is the big deal?

I suppose dolls aren’t always made specifically for girls, but a lot of them are made for girls. About the other thing, I don’t affirm of cross dressing.

 

[didactics]

Quoting from a Got Questions article, How should a Christian view fashion?



“It isn’t wrong to wear nice things. It isn’t wrong for a Christian to be fashionable or operate in the world of fashion. But there’s more to life than fashion. Jesus said, “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes” (Luke 12:22–23). It isn’t wrong to be fashionable as long as we keep things in perspective and the fashions we choose do not contradict biblical standards. Fashions that are immodest, selfishly draw attention to oneself, or blur the lines of gender are off-limits.”

 

[RDKirk]

I suppose dolls aren’t always made specifically for girls, but a lot of them are made for girls. About the other thing, I don’t affirm of cross dressing.

I had a GI Joe doll as a kid. One of the original 12-inch dolls that were the same scale as the Ken and Barbie dolls. I was always pretty much convinced GI Joe could beat Ken's time with Barbie.

 

[didactics]

I had a GI Joe doll as a kid. One of the original 12-inch dolls that were the same scale as the Ken and Barbie dolls. I was always pretty much convinced GI Joe could beat Ken's time with Barbie.

All I meant was that it doesn’t sound like a good idea to offer a doll made for girls, to give to a boy. I’m not intending to be legalistic. However when it comes to cross dressing, that should be an off-limits thing.


P.S. That’s funny! If that’s what you meant, I might call it an action figure.

 

[Paulos23]

I suppose dolls aren’t always made specifically for girls, but a lot of them are made for girls. About the other thing, I don’t affirm of cross dressing.

Who said anything about crossdressing, he just likes dresses when it is hot.

And dolls are early action figures, tools for a child's imagination and play.

 

[didactics]

Who said anything about crossdressing, he just likes dresses when it is hot.

And dolls are early action figures, tools for a child's imagination and play.

Yeah but boys tend to be more rough, so it’s better that they play with an action figure instead. Otherwise they will ruin their sister’s doll and will have to get a spanking for it!

 

[Paulos23]

Yeah but boys tend to be more rough, so it’s better that they play with an action figure instead. Otherwise they will ruin their sister’s doll and will have to get a spanking for it!

Dude, I don't know how you rase your kids, and it is not any of my business. But the point I was making was buttoning holing a child in a role limits them. My kid likes dresses and explosions, plushies and Nerf guns.

I don't see why we should limit them in things that interested them.

 

[RDKirk]

When my son was 9 months old, my first wife decided she wanted to be single again. She packed her bags and left the state.

I was a single father for over four years before I met my present wife (now of 38 years). At one point, when my son was about three years old, maybe four, I was visiting friends who had a young daughter. My son was in her room playing when the mother called me over to look.

My son was playing with the girl's toy stove and toy cookware, busily "cooking" something. But as I watched him, I realized he was actually emulating my cooking habits, such as moving a pot from a hot stove element at the front to a cool one at the back.

 

[didactics]

Dude, I don't know how you rase your kids, and it is not any of my business. But the point I was making was buttoning holing a child in a role limits them. My kid likes dresses and explosions, plushies and Nerf guns.

I don't see why we should limit them in things that interested them.

I’m not actually a father, I was only supposing what it would be like to parent. I don’t think plushies are bad. About dresses, maybe you don’t see the harm because you don’t hold to a biblical worldview. But I think there used to be a time in history when the secular world frowned upon crossdressing. But you say, “likes dresses when it is hot” to distinguish from crossdressing. I’m not sure what that means. Maybe you mean to let him explore, to use his imagination. I think one good way to help develop the imagination is to read classic stories or fables.