To My Brethren...evolution

[Follower of Christ]

In all honesty, its very easy for me to see the possibility of the evolution theory being the first step in the "lie" or " delusion" that God will send in the end.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, so that all those who do not believe the truth, but delight in unrighteousness, might be condemned. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 MKJV)

I very seriously doubt that it will be some big magic trick. It will probably be something given over years, decades or even a century or 2.

You take evolution. Its been around for a while. Its being taught in our schools to our children. Its programming them to question the Bibles account. They have to decide whether they believe Gods version OR the so called "evidence".

So they choose. Some will choose to believe God. Some wont.
When the next step of the "Delusion" is put into play, those who believed God and His account of Creation will have no trouble with it as they have determined in their hearts that GOD is true and every man a liar.

With each consecutive step this would become MORE of a blinding to those who didnt take God at His word.
It would also cause those who DO stick with their Biblical account to even be hated by those dont.
We are seeing more of a divide in Gods people over this very topic.

I see that its possible that the end time "falling away" may actually be brought about by this "delusion".
Christians wont just fall away for no reason. They would have to be slowly indoctrinated into "disbelief".

What better way to start than with something so innocent as the creation story?
And they're also trying to disprove the flood as being worldwide.
For those of you already questioning our Lords account of His creation, will you next be saying that the flood was a local flood?

And when you're convinced of that, will the next step maybe be in saying the Jesus didnt REALLY come in the flesh?

Brethren, there is a line being drawn in the sand here.
Please be sure you keep yourself on His side of the line.
Please Don't allow the intellect He gave you to be used to your disadvantage.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

You are equating the theory of evolution with athiesm. You might as well equate vegetarianism with genocide simply because Hitler didn't eat meat. WHen the science of geology was first invented two centuries ago (and 4 decades before Darwin's theory) it became obvious to geologists that the earth was much older then originally thought and that now extinct creatures had inhabited it (several evolutionary type theories were floated at the time). Most of the people invovled were deeply religious and would classify themselfs as creationists (William Buckland, who created the first school of geology was a reverent). THey just came to realize that Genesis was not ment to be taken literally.

DO you regard the universe (Creation) as being apart form GOd, or a part of God?

 

[Follower of Christ]

Then why take ANY of it literally.
As I asked before, will you next say that Jesus didnt come in the flesh?
Why should we take that literally?
If you can supposedly believe in the miracle of the virgin birth, and the miracle of the ressurection, why is the miracle of Gods account of Creation so unbelievable?

 

[notto]

Today at 04:43 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #3

If you can supposedly believe in the miracle of the virgin birth, and the miracle of the ressurection, why is the miracle of Gods account of Creation so unbelievable?

Because there is direct, physical, observable evidence to the contrary that it was created the way it is stated in the bible. This is not to say that God is not the creator (which is accepted on faith).

I refuse to believe that God would decieve us through the creation and what we find in it. Instead, I interpret Geneis with the knowledge found in creation and come to the conclusion that it was not a literal or historical description of the creative process that gave us the world as we see it today. This in no way conficts with my faith in God or the miracle of the resurrection (which is also accepted on faith). There is no way to falsify the resurection story as a miracle. There are plenty of ways to falsify a young earth and a simultaneous creation of all creatures in a 6 day time frame. Of course, God could have covered his tracks with more miracles, but I don't see why I should believe this and why God would deceive us through what we are able to discover about the creation.

 

[Follower of Christ]

So how old was Adam on day 7 ?

 

[seebs]

I see. God's "strong delusions" will be firmly rooted in His creation, full of empirical evidence, and will lead many people to realize that God is greater than anyone had ever told them.

People aren't doubting that the Bible is true - they're disagreeing with you over what it says.

How is your position any different from geocentrism?

 

[Follower of Christ]

God gave an account of exactly 7 days.

You 're not disagreeing with ME over what it says, YOU are disagreeing with HIM over what it says.

Thats the point.
Do you believe the EXACT account HE gave you,
or SPECULATED information that could very well be being presented be an enemy whose only desire is to cause doubt as to our Creators words.

and please tell me (seebs is it?), are you an athiest?
If so, this post is not directed to you, nor do I need an atheists response.

I have spent the last 2 months debating with atheists over this issue and others.
I am not interested in debating it with confused atheists any longer.

I am only interested in helping my brethren understand why they have to choose.
I am only interested in helping them stand for our Gods written word.

I am not interested in debating the lies created to disrupt and distort our belief in our Gods creation and His account with athiests who serve no other purpose than to further the damage to the faith of my brethren.

So tell me, are you a true believer or not?

 

[wblastyn]

How is your position any different from geocentrism?

It's funny how creationists seem to ignore this one lol.

 

[Follower of Christ]

I ignore nothing.
I just do not allow myself to do as YOU have done and think that I know MORE than the Creator.

I have no need to get into another debate.
My Bible gives me the information I need to see the truth, I do not need a scientists "speculations" to understand creation.

I apologize for not allowing you to drag me into a battle of wits.
I guess that means I lose.

But then again, I have taken my God at His word.
So who is the one who really loses??

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Follewer of CHrist. Over 80% of catholic priests acknowledge that Adam and Eve were not real people and never existed. Yet, obviously they still beleive in God and salvation through Jesus. THAT is the kind of appreciation that comes after years of bible study - and and understanding that God is not some kind of Santa Claus (complete with white beard and workshop) that lives in the sky.

 

[TheBear]

Today at 10:29 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #1

In all honesty, its very easy for me to see the possibility of the evolution theory being the first step in the "lie" or " delusion" that God will send in the end.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, so that all those who do not believe the truth, but delight in unrighteousness, might be condemned. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 MKJV)

I very seriously doubt that it will be some big magic trick. It will probably be something given over years, decades or even a century or 2.

You take evolution. Its been around for a while. Its being taught in our schools to our children. Its programming them to question the Bibles account. They have to decide whether they believe Gods version OR the so called "evidence".

So they choose. Some will choose to believe God. Some wont.
When the next step of the "Delusion" is put into play, those who believed God and His account of Creation will have no trouble with it as they have determined in their hearts that GOD is true and every man a liar.

With each consecutive step this would become MORE of a blinding to those who didnt take God at His word.
It would also cause those who DO stick with their Biblical account to even be hated by those dont.
We are seeing more of a divide in Gods people over this very topic.

I see that its possible that the end time "falling away" may actually be brought about by this "delusion".
Christians wont just fall away for no reason. They would have to be slowly indoctrinated into "disbelief".

What better way to start than with something so innocent as the creation story?
And they're also trying to disprove the flood as being worldwide.
For those of you already questioning our Lords account of His creation, will you next be saying that the flood was a local flood?

And when you're convinced of that, will the next step maybe be in saying the Jesus didnt REALLY come in the flesh?

Brethren, there is a line being drawn in the sand here.
Please be sure you keep yourself on His side of the line.
Please Don't allow the intellect He gave you to be used to your disadvantage.

"And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, so that all those who do not believe the truth, but delight in unrighteousness, might be condemned. "
(2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 MKJV)

Yes indeed! If someone rejects salvation through Jesus Christ, they are spiriturally bankrupt, and delight in their unrighteousness. And that is where the line is truly drawn. To say that belief in an evolutionary creation process, somehow diminishes God, or shows deviation from salvation, (if there is such a thing), couldn't be further from the truth. The more of God's creation that is explained from a scientific approach, the more I am in awe of His creation.

The wonderful and intricate details of His work, are truly amazing. And the more that is discovered, the more amazed I am, at His power and knowledge.

God does not lie. Science and God are not at odds with each other. Science merely attempts to explain God's creation, and makes advances in technologies, based on those explainations of God's creation. The explainations that fall short of the mark, and fail to advance, are extremely short-lived.

The Bible is the Inspired Word of God. Spiritural interpretation is the key.

1Co 2:14 -

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[Follower of Christ]

Well, I hate to argue with a Senior Admin, but I will humbly have to disagree.

I do not say that one cannot believe in evolution and still be saved.
On the contrary, I know Christians who believe in evolution.
They are some of the most liberal, free-spirited folk I know.
Genesis isnt the only place they call my God a liar.

God and science are not at odds with each other.
Evolution is at odds with my Lords account as to His creation.
Evolution FORCES me to re-interpret Genesis to my own ideas.

"But let God be true, and every man a liar"

Let my brethren take up thier Bibles and STAND for His word against their own understanding.
Let them STAND for FAITH in God and His WHOLE word.




"Follewer of CHrist. Over 80% of catholic priests acknowledge that Adam and Eve were not real people and never existed. Yet, obviously they still beleive in God and salvation through Jesus. THAT is the kind of appreciation that comes after years of bible study - and and understanding that God is not some kind of Santa Claus (complete with white beard and workshop) that lives in the sky"


FOC:

My translation: "Over 80% of Catholic priests have been tricked into doubting (unbelief) thier Gods true words."

Which I do NOT find surprising at all considering some of the other things catholic priests believe.

And why in the world would I care what any catholic believed in the first place.
I follow Christ and His words.

I came to this site to get a break from unbelieving atheists who were trying to destroy my faith in my God.
And it seems that now even supposed christians are on the list of folk trying to break me from believing Gods word.

And even a senior admin.
BEAR, are you going to also confirm that I should believe that Adam and Eve were just a supposed story?


You know the funny thing about delusions (and I speak from experience),
the person(S) experiencing them does not know that they arent real.
You believe EVERYTHING about them.

And if you all think that you can use terms such as "spiritual interpretation" to try to dodge literal scripture, you re wrong.

I have been in this game long enough to know WHERE to be literal at.

Please dont try your ultra-logical intellects on me, I have dealt with Atheist GURU Dennis Mckinsey and didnt fall for his lies either.

"You have laid out beautifully the danger that creationism poses for Christianity. The danger isn't evolution, as you say, but creationism. The "choice" is forced upon people only by creationists, not by evolution.

FOC:

And tell me, is the danger in taking God at His word,
Or in playing Pharisee and making it say what YOU want it to say?

You play word games just as the atheists do. Trying to twist and distort words and meanings.



"What you have done is place your interpretation of Genesis 1-3 as "God's word" But you allow the truth to slip out when you said "their Biblical account". Yes, it is the creationists' Biblical account, not the Biblical account itself.

FOC:

DOES IT SAY HE CREATED IT IN 6 DAYS OR NOT ?

Can you show me where HE says it was millions/billions of years ?

Who is the liar?
GOD (and me for standing by His word),
or those who try to "SPIRITUALLY (RE) INTERPRET'' His word to tell God what He REALLY meant to say?

Sorry, I will take my Gods word as truth.


And there was evening, and there was morning the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning the second day.
And there was evening, and there was morning the third day.
And there was evening, and there was morning the fourth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning the fifth day.
And there was evening, and there was morning the sixth day.
And He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.

Now I do not know how that could BE any plainer.
AND YES, I have studied the Hebrew "yom", so lets not get into that again

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Follower, your bigotry towards catholics is disturbing but not surprising. The pope recently said somethig to the extent that it did not matter which church you belonged to as long as it brought you towards Christ. It seems that you do not agree. So can you tell me which churches do the True Believers (TM) belong to; Mormons, Anglicans, 7th day adventests, methodists, Jehovas Witnesses, baptists or pentacostals?

 

[Follower of Christ]

I apologize for sounding that way.
I have known many Catholics who loved God and were truly born agian.

I have also known many non-catholics who spent all there time trying to change the word of God into something that FIT what they WANT to believe.

The catholic remark really came about as I was thinking about all the priests getting into trouble lately.

I am sorry if I ignorantly included you in that remark.

 

[Follower of Christ]

Late_Cretaceous:

"So can you tell me which churches do the True Believers (TM) belong to; Mormons, Anglicans, 7th day adventests, methodists, Jehovas Witnesses, baptists or pentacostals?"

FOC:

Thats not for me to decide or make any judgment on.

"Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal: "The Lord knew those who are His." And, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity!"
(2 Timothy 2:19 MKJV)

To be sure, no group in particular.
I imagine there will be those from many groups as He searches the hearts of His Followers.

"For the eyes of Jehovah run to and fro in all the whole earth to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is perfect toward Him."
2Ch 16:9

 

[wblastyn]

We have the Lord's creation to back up our interpretation, what do you have?

 

[Follower of Christ]

Oh , not much, just Almighty Gods account:


....And there was evening, and there was morning the first day.
....And there was evening, and there was morning the second day.
...And there was evening, and there was morning the third day.
....And there was evening, and there was morning the fourth day.
....And there was evening, and there was morning the fifth day.
....And there was evening, and there was morning the sixth day.
....And He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.


It needs no "interpretation''.
Just a plain old second grade english education.

God sure was great to explain it all so plainly, wasn't He ?

 

[notto]

Yesterday at 11:31 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #18


Just a plain old second grade english education.

To bad it was originally written in Hebrew with that nasty need to examine the actual word that was translated into the english "day".

 

[Follower of Christ]

Today at 07:20 PM notto said this in Post #19



To bad it was originally written in Hebrew with that nasty need to examine the actual word that was translated into the english "day".

FOC;

you obviously missed my previous post.

It was the studying of the Hebrew word "yom" and what is meant when an evening (‛ereb) and morning (bôqer) are mentioned in conjunction with it that changed me from a Christian "evolutionist' to a 6 day creationist.

Nice attempt though.....

 

[TheBear]

Genesis 2:17 - (God, talking to Adam)
"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (NKJV)


Genesis 5:5 -
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died." (NKJV)