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No one is.Let's not spiritualize the Torah in order to justify breaking the literal commands of God:
Every Jot and Tittle is Important
I was reminded of the woman at the table.Much has been written on this and I won't quote from every source.
Some believe that gentiles were allowed to keep the feast, just that they weren't allowed to eat of the sacrifice. They were allowed the cups of wine, the matzoh, bitter herbs etc, just not the lamb.
There is also a general agreement that the point is moot since there is no temple today so all believers can keep the feast.
But the instructions G-d gave say only the circumcised can partake.
PLEASE NOTE: This thread is in the Messianic Judaism forum and also is for MJ's only to debate. All posts disregarding this or Off TOPIC will be deleted.
Lets look at the Torah instructions
Deut 16
1 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the L-RD thy God: for in the month of Abib the L-RD thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
2 Thou shalt therefore sacrifice the passover unto the L-RD thy God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the L-RD shall choose to place his name there.
3 Thou shalt eat no leavened bread with it; seven days shalt thou eat unleavened bread therewith, even the bread of affliction; for thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt in haste: that thou mayest remember the day when thou camest forth out of the land of Egypt all the days of thy life.
4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.
5 Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the L-RD thy God giveth thee:
6 But at the place which the L-RD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, at the going down of the sun, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
7 And thou shalt roast and eat it in the place which the L-RD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents.
8 Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the L-RD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein.
from EXODUS 12
43 And the L-RD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
John 1 shows us the True Passover Lamb
28 All this happened at Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day John saw Yeshua coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Now let's look at what Yeshua said in John 6:
31 'Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'
32 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Yeshua said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst........
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat (food) indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
From 1 Peter
…18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life you inherited from your forefathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or spot.
20 He was known before the foundation of the world, but was revealed in the last times for your sake.…
In Revelation we read of Yeshua being referred to many times as the Lamb.
"because the Lamb in the middle of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to
springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."
Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the
wedding supper of the Lamb!" And he added, "These are the true words of God."
'It was flowing from the throne of God and the lamb.' ...
'The salvation is to Him who is
sitting upon the throne -- to our God, and to the Lamb!'
'I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are
its temple. ...'
'and sang the song of God's servant Moses and of the Lamb: "Great and
marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true ...'
This lamb was prophesied back in Genesis 22
... Abraham answered, "God will provide a lamb for the burnt offering,
Son." The two of them went on together. ...
So from the testimony of these verses we must conclude the following things:
1. That Yeshua is the Passover Lamb
2. Yeshua is the bread from heaven
3. Yeshua is the true unblemished sacrifice
Now add to that........
Luke 18 For I tell you that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.”
19 And He took the bread (matzah), gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
Mark 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Now we can see that Yeshua has stated that he is the bread that came down from heaven, he is also called the Lamb of G-d, the Passover lamb.
From this I see that the lamb and the matzoh of the Seder are one and the same.
We don't sacrifice the lamb for Passover today because there is no temple, but also because we believe in the true Passover lamb, Yeshua.
When we remember and keep the Passover we see the Matzoh as the bread from heaven, the body of Yeshua, the unblemished lamb. If we participate in this and the ordinances for keeping the Passover say that one must be circumcised why is that not held to?
What do you think circumcision has to do with eating of the Passover lamb or in this case the Matzah at the Seder meal?
I was reminded of the woman at the table.
Matt:15
And also that there is no prohibition against an uncircumcised son from partaking of the feast on account of their parents lack of knowledge.
Because it is written.
"The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child."
The Jewish official position is that Moses was born circumcised.True,
But I can't help but wonder about how whether or not moses was circumcised as a child and his Egyptian mother took him in regardless. Or whether he was circumcised later.
This is halachah? Could you source this? I can see it being an opinion, but I have never seen that it has been ruled on.The Jewish official position is that Moses was born circumcised.
Sotah 12aThis is halachah? Could you source this? I can see it being an opinion, but I have never seen that it has been ruled on.
This is aggadah, not halachah. I don't see how you can say it is the 'official position' that Moses was born circumcised. The best you can say is that it is a tradition.Sotah 12a
You cannot codify a narrative, hence it must fall under the aggadic interpretation. Which, btw, does not make it any less valid.Sotah 12a
It's a sign of great potential or blessing- something to that effect. It sure confused the Sages if that individual should be circumcised anyway.What is the reasoning behind it, that he was born that way?
Scripture states in Joshua 5:5 All the people that came out had been circumcised, but all the people born in the wilderness during the journey from Egypt had not.This is halachah? Could you source this? I can see it being an opinion, but I have never seen that it has been ruled on.
Scripture states in Joshua 5:5 All the people that came out had been circumcised, but all the people born in the wilderness during the journey from Egypt had not.
So it is seemingly clear that the tradition of the sons of Israel was the continuation of the practice of circumcision. Moses was not placed in the reed basket until he was older than 3 months. Given what Joshua 5:5 tells us it is almost a certainty that Moche was circumcised. Further evidence supporting this is that Moche was born of the house of Levi and while they were not yet the priestly order, G-d most certainly would have ensured that Moche was circumcised on the 8th day according to HIS decree concerning circumcision.
True, Moses' real mother had time to circumcise him before sending him adrift..I was questioning the assertion that Moses was born circumcised according to the halachah.
True, Moses' real mother had time to circumcise him before sending him adrift..
Actually, it does happen- being born without foreskin (which can be seen as being born circumcised). The Talmud specifically deals with those cases in Shabbat 135a- if I remember correctly.Exactly. There's no reason to think he was born circumcised. Sounds like a Jewish fable.
Being born to Levite parents, it only makes sense that he would be circumcised on the 8th day according to the commandment.
Besides, no human is born circumcised. Even the Messiah was circumcised on the 8th day.
There at least a couple of different reasons for it, but I don't believe that the case of his son is one of them.Do you think that understanding came from the episode on the way back to Egypt where HaShem sought to kill him because his sons weren't?
Moshe.i suppose he does have an interesting name
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